Upcoming Branch Line Society tours

[ExRes]

Announcement today that the 'Calan Mai' tour has been cancelled due to uncertainty over availability of the advertised locos and lower than expected bookings

 

[Iskra]

Announcement today that the 'Calan Mai' tour has been cancelled due to uncertainty over availability of the advertised locos and lower than expected bookings

Yeah, I was booked on. Mildly miffed at the relatively short notice cancellation as I’d used annual leave for it and now it’s too late to withdraw my request. I think this is my 3rd tour cancellation already this year, after a number last year were also cancelled, so I’m starting to lose faith in certain providers. Gonna struggle to get any more tours with 20’s on this year I think. All good for the bank balance though!

 

[50047]

Yeah, I was booked on. Mildly miffed at the relatively short notice cancellation as I’d used annual leave for it and now it’s too late to withdraw my request. I think this is my 3rd tour cancellation already this year, after a number last year were also cancelled, so I’m starting to lose faith in certain providers. Gonna struggle to get any more tours with 20’s on this year I think. All good for the bank balance though!

Yes, if only these failing locos would giove more notice they were about to explode. I would suggest only booking on shed tours in future, then you'll likely never need to worry.

 

[Iskra]

Yes, if only these failing locos would giove more notice they were about to explode. I would suggest only booking on shed tours in future, then you'll likely never need to worry.

Low bookings must have been apparent for some time…

 

[50047]

Low bookings must have been apparent for some time…

How do you quantify that statement? You start off with some, and then get some more etc etc. By a certain pointif you havent broken even, then you can tell you arent going to and have to pull the plug or incur higher costs when you have crossed certain thresholds. Having run charters for several years now, I know all too well how it works. What will always tickle though, is all the arm chair experts making nonsense comments such as yours.

No doubt now you explain to me how you are an expert after all, and not actually a desk bound spotter hiding in a badly lit basement.

 

[Iskra]

How do you quantify that statement? You start off with some, and then get some more etc etc. By a certain pointif you havent broken even, then you can tell you arent going to and have to pull the plug or incur higher costs when you have crossed certain thresholds. Having run charters for several years now, I know all too well how it works. What will always tickle though, is all the arm chair experts making nonsense comments such as yours.

No doubt now you explain to me how you are an expert after all, and not actually a desk bound spotter hiding in a badly lit basement.

You are showing total contempt for your customer base. Pre-Covid a tour getting cancelled or re-dated was the exception. Now, it seems to be pretty much 50/50 (which I find unacceptable, even if you don’t) and the price of them has gone through the roof at the same time. If the sector is repeatedly not delivering what it promises, then you can expect some frustration to be expressed at the very least. If the tours are unreliable, then why risk booking on them and wasting annual leave when they get canned at less than 4 weeks notice? It risks becoming a vicious cycle. It must be quite clear whether a tour is attracting strong bookings or not from the first few weeks bookings, or once the first payday has passed.

A Day Rover on a decent heritage line is only £20 and you can actually hear the loco’s and are allowed to stand by a droplight, don’t have to get up at 3/4am and drive for two hours to get there…

 

[zwk500]

You are showing total contempt for your customer base. Pre-Covid a tour getting cancelled or re-dated was the exception. Now, it seems to be pretty much 50/50 (which I find unacceptable, even if you don’t) and the price of them has gone through the roof at the same time.

The economic situation had completely changed though, it would be astonishing if the railtour market had gone back to normal.

If the sector is repeatedly not delivering what it promises, then you can expect some frustration to be expressed at the very least. If the tours are unreliable, then why risk booking on them and wasting annual leave when they get canned at less than 4 weeks notice? It risks becoming a vicious cycle.

This is all 100% true and speaks to the difficulties operators are having. Customers want to know that if they've booked a train, they'll have the train to get on! It's a vicious circle 2 ways.

It must be quite clear whether a tour is attracting strong bookings or not from the first few weeks bookings, or once the first payday has passed.

Not so, tours have different booking patterns depending on the market and offer etc., so it may not be obvious that bookings won't come in until much closer to the date.
Usually operators will need to make a decision about 4 weeks before the tour as that's when NR starts planning the path and if the bills start coming in. In the summer the offers will be later so they can get away with hanging on for bookings a bit more
I've had tours cancelled literally as I'm planning the path, it's every bit as frustrating as when a customer receives the call.

A Day Rover on a decent heritage line is only £20 and you can actually hear the loco’s and are allowed to stand by a droplight, don’t have to get up at 3/4am and drive for two hours to get there…

Then go to a heritage line, but they're only 10 miles long and limited to 25mph, so tradeoffs.

 

[Iskra]

The economic situation had completely changed though, it would be astonishing if the railtour market had gone back to normal.

This is all 100% true and speaks to the difficulties operators are having. Customers want to know that if they've booked a train, they'll have the train to get on! It's a vicious circle 2 ways.

Not so, tours have different booking patterns depending on the market and offer etc., so it may not be obvious that bookings won't come in until much closer to the date.
Usually operators will need to make a decision about 4 weeks before the tour as that's when NR starts planning the path and if the bills start coming in. In the summer the offers will be later so they can get away with hanging on for bookings a bit more
I've had tours cancelled literally as I'm planning the path, it's every bit as frustrating as when a customer receives the call.

Then go to a heritage line, but they're only 10 miles long and limited to 25mph, so tradeoffs.

Appreciated, but since we all know that, why persist in running as many tours as in a normal year to the point that many fail in the current climate? If the market has contracted by 15%, then you need to run 15% less tours to keep the remaining ones viable, not keep saturating a contracting market. This particularly applies to the Day Trip market for non enthusiasts which seems to have dried-up considerably.

I disagree, I think if there isn't at least a reasonable initial take-up it's unlikely to fill. But equally, some booking agents shoot themselves in the foot by only opening bookings 2/3 months in advance, so don't even give themselves much of a chance. By that point my money is already with the companies that give more notice with their programme.

Yes, I can imagine there is a lot of frustration all-round at the moment with people putting work in for tours that are subsequently cancelled.

I am having to do, but it isn't really my preference although they have their upsides and they do actually tend to run.

 

[zwk500]

Appreciated, but since we all know that, why persist in running as many tours as in a normal year to the point that many fail in the current climate? If the market has contracted by 15%, then you need to run 15% less tours to keep the remaining ones viable, not keep saturating a contracting market. This particularly applies to the Day Trip market for non enthusiasts which seems to have dried-up considerably.

It's a really difficult business decision because you also have to offer enough tours to keep the market alive. Run too few tours and you simply can't cover your overheads.

I disagree, I think if there isn't at least a reasonable initial take-up it's unlikely to fill. But equally, some booking agents shoot themselves in the foot by only opening bookings 2/3 months in advance, so don't even give themselves much of a chance. By that point my money is already with the companies that give more notice with their programme.

Yes, again not an easy one to work out - and I completely understand people such as yourself who need to make your own travel and accommodation plans early to get decent rates.

Yes, I can imagine there is a lot of frustration all-round at the moment with people putting work in for tours that are subsequently cancelled.

Plenty of it. Was always a fun day in the office when you get a call in the morning that a Loco's failed it's fitness to run.

I am having to do, but it isn't really my preference although they have their upsides and they do actually tend to run.

Fair enough. It's going to be a rough few years for railtours on the mainline, I fear. Hopefully I'm being pessimistic but the market is small, naturally dwindling and under serious financial pressure at the moment.

 

[Kite159]

Hopefully I'm being pessimistic but the market is small, naturally dwindling and under serious financial pressure at the moment.

Agreed there.
It isn't just the cost of railtours themselves but the cost of accommodation & travel if required. Some places hotels are quite expensive compared to what they used to be pre Covid (especially if you book with free cancellation as insurance just in case). I'm certainly doing less tours this year than what I would have done previously due to the overall cost. (The 'AC' MK2 coaches don't help, all to many times the AC packs in on a hot day meaning the coach is a sweat box with no windows)

The average age of railtour market probably doesn't help.

 

[31160]

I don't suppose there's much chance of the Holyhead tour being redacted i was proper looking forward to that, it must be hard for the organisers to pick whats going to be popular because you look at some tours that sell out and for the life of me I can't see the attraction in them and this one suffers low bookings, also with the issues with 50008 how will that effect the Retro tour to Paignton later in the month

 

[12LDA28C]

This particularly applies to the Day Trip market for non enthusiasts which seems to have dried-up considerably.

Not sure this is true at all. I travelled on several Statesman Rail day excursions last year which were pretty much fully-booked with 'normal' passengers all paying £175 for a day trip in FC and double that in Pullman Dining. There seem to be less options available however with operators such as West Coast having scaled back their day trips to places like Carlisle and Edinburgh.

 

[31160]

Not sure this is true at all. I travelled on several Statesman Rail day excursions last year which were pretty much fully-booked with 'normal' passengers all paying £175 for a day trip in FC and double that in Pullman Dining. There seem to be less options available however with operators such as West Coast having scaled back their day trips to places like Carlisle and Edinburgh.

Yes thats true the FC/Dining end of the train seems to fill no matter what the traction or destination is,someone is doing very well at the moment,pity its not me or anyone I know

 

[xotGD]

I don't suppose there's much chance of the Holyhead tour being redacted i was proper looking forward to that, it must be hard for the organisers to pick whats going to be popular because you look at some tours that sell out and for the life of me I can't see the attraction in them and this one suffers low bookings, also with the issues with 50008 how will that effect the Retro tour to Paignton later in the month

What's up with 50008? Is it looking like alternative traction for the Paignton trip?

 

[ExRes]

also with the issues with 50008 how will that effect the Retro tour to Paignton later in the month

Has anybody actually announced that 50008 has a problem? there were two Michael Owen 20s due to work the tour as well

 

[31160]

Has anybody actually announced that 50008 has a problem? there were two Michael Owen 20s due to work the tour as well

Yeah that's a good point,I never thought the problem would be the 20s they always seam pretty bomb prove reliability wise

 

[ExRes]

June looks to be a busy month with three new tours announced


3rd & 4th June - The Tyne Tees Maid - DB Cargo Class 60 & 66 - Mk2 coaches - Martin House Childrens Hospice fund raiser

24th June - The Jolly Vacman - 37418 & 50008 - Mk3 coaches - to Skegness

25th June - The Eyre Valley Explorer - 37418 & 50008 - Mk3 coaches - visiting the KWVR Diesel Gala

All the current booking details, timings and ticket prices are on the BLS website

 

[ExRes]

Two further tours announced both open for booking

15th July - The Merry Wherry - 50008 & 50007 TnT - Round trip from Derby to East Anglia

16th July - The Harrow Marrow - 50008 - Derby to Harrow & Wealdstone

Details and pricing on the BLS site

 

[JonathanH]

16th July - The Harrow Marrow - 50008 - Derby to Harrow & Wealdstone

Is this a way of moving 50008 and its stock to a new location, rather than Gascoigne Wood?

Harrow & Wealdstone is an odd place to end up.

 

[ExRes]

Is this a way of moving 50008 and its stock to a new location, rather than Gascoigne Wood?

Harrow & Wealdstone is an odd place to end up.

It just says that the stock needs to be at Wembley, no doubt all will become clear .....

 

[12LDA28C]

Good job punters on BLS tours are generally there for the track involved, not the variety of traction on offer...

 

[xotGD]

Good job punters on BLS tours are generally there for the track involved, not the variety of traction on offer...

Don't forget the Hoover cranks, there to clock up the mileage.

 

[12LDA28C]

Don't forget the Hoover cranks, there to clock up the mileage.

They should all have 10k off '008 by now!

 

[ExRes]

I don't see the problem personally, if you want a 50 then you get what's available and there ain't many to pick from, also I doubt that BLS members are overly concerned about the traction, it's which lines the traction takes them over that count

 

[Bevan Price]

You are showing total contempt for your customer base. Pre-Covid a tour getting cancelled or re-dated was the exception. Now, it seems to be pretty much 50/50 (which I find unacceptable, even if you don’t) and the price of them has gone through the roof at the same time. If the sector is repeatedly not delivering what it promises, then you can expect some frustration to be expressed at the very least. If the tours are unreliable, then why risk booking on them and wasting annual leave when they get canned at less than 4 weeks notice? It risks becoming a vicious cycle. It must be quite clear whether a tour is attracting strong bookings or not from the first few weeks bookings, or once the first payday has passed.

A Day Rover on a decent heritage line is only £20 and you can actually hear the loco’s and are allowed to stand by a droplight, don’t have to get up at 3/4am and drive for two hours to get there…

Some day rovers for gala events are getting closer to £40 than £20.

 

[theblackwatch]

It just says that the stock needs to be at Wembley, no doubt all will become clear .....

The set is being used on a private charter the following week which puts it in position for that.

 

[Iskra]

Some day rovers for gala events are getting closer to £40 than £20.

Still significantly cheaper than a railtour and that’s more likely to be one of the larger railways offering more in return

 

[ExRes]

The set is being used on a private charter the following week which puts it in position for that.

Thanks @theblackwatch

 

[12LDA28C]

Still significantly cheaper than a railtour and that’s more likely to be one of the larger railways offering more in return

Offering more in return? That depends on what you consider important. Some people might enjoy scoring haulage by a freight loco for just a few miles on a preserved line they've travelled on many times before. Others may prefer gaining 500+ miles of haulage behind their chosen class of locomotive and having a few hours to look round a pleasant destination, or score some rare freight track on a BLS-type tour. Horses for courses.

 

[31160]

Offering more in return? That depends on what you consider important. Some people might enjoy scoring haulage by a freight loco for just a few miles on a preserved line they've travelled on many times before. Others may prefer gaining 500+ miles of haulage behind their chosen class of locomotive and having a few hours to look round a pleasant destination, or score some rare freight track on a BLS-type tour. Horses for courses.

That's very true,although I am firmly if the opinion that a day on pres hopefully in a MK1 compo starting the day about 830 is far more sociable than a tour, but as you say if you want the mileage then a tour is probably a better pounds to mileage ratio than pres even with the prices of tours these days. Certain tour organisers have always taken the proverbial when it comes to pricing and I think we all know who I mean there