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Vaccine Passports - currently being considered in Scotland & Wales

Philip

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27 May 2007
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Manchester
Well we live and learn and now we know Covid isn’t the apocalypse we can definitely relax and go back to normal.

Last night on the tube I would say it was roughly 20-30% mask usage, which is great to see, we need more people to take back normality and not rely on the government to give us it back.

It also confirmed that another lockdown wouldn’t be tolerated, venues may shut but people will gather in other ways regardless, the feeling is very different from last year.

Covid passports are nothing more than a security blanket that has zero health benefits.

Though I see Blair has crawled out from under his rock again to voice his support for ID cards … I mean Covid Passports, if there’s one thing I’ve learnt that anything he voices his support to, most people go the opposite way, the man is a poison chalice who is beyond contempt.

The government will only intervene if they feel the situation is getting out of control. However I don't think you can speak for others in the way you have by saying the feeling is very different to last year.
 
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js1000

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Joined
14 Jun 2014
Messages
966
Covid passports are nothing more than a security blanket that has zero health benefits.
Covid certification will only be introduced if the NHS will be overwhelmed. We are nowhere near that stage and it is highly unlikely we will get to situation we had last March or in January. Some epidemiologists actually think case numbers will actually decline in November if there is no immunity waning in older age cohorts with the vaccine boosters for over 60s this seems unlikely.

In my view, there is a big cost of Covid passports economically, ethically and in practical terms that isn't worth the hassle unless the alternative is a lockdown. The NHS is under pressure (it's always under pressure) and we're miles from that stage. If anything, considering 90% of adults have had a vaccine, "vaccine passports" will just be an inconvenience for the 90% because 10% don't want a vaccine.
 

plugwash

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Joined
29 May 2015
Messages
543
I see both positive and negative signs.

On the plus side covid cases are still below the peak they hit two months ago despite the loosening of restrictions and the return to work/school, and the number of hospitalisations and the ICU occupancy is much lower than in previous waves.

On the minus side cases and hospitalisations are still much higher than they were this time last year.

I still think this could go either way.
 

92002

Member
Joined
27 Mar 2014
Messages
582
Location
Clydebank
Covid certification will only be introduced if the NHS will be overwhelmed. We are nowhere near that stage and it is highly unlikely we will get to situation we had last March or in January. Some epidemiologists actually think case numbers will actually decline in November if there is no immunity waning in older age cohorts with the vaccine boosters for over 60s this seems unlikely.

In my view, there is a big cost of Covid passports economically, ethically and in practical terms that isn't worth the hassle unless the alternative is a lockdown. The NHS is under pressure (it's always under pressure) and we're miles from that stage. If anything, considering 90% of adults have had a vaccine, "vaccine passports" will just be an inconvenience for the 90% because 10% don't want a vaccine.
Covid passports have been available in Scotland for many months in a paper form for free. The app is due to be Available by 1st October.
 

takno

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Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
3,540
Covid passports have been available in Scotland for many months in a paper form for free. The app is due to be Available by 1st October.
The passports Scotland have been issuing on paper for months are due to be got rid of because they're not secure enough.

Meanwhile the main cost is the economic cost is of people (mainly in the vaccinated 90%) deciding they can't be bothered with the faff and not going out and spending money. The nightlife and pub sectors were fragile enough before Covid and won't cope with even a small fall in demand. For larger events, why bother booking a 50 quid ticket plus a hotel and travel if there's a danger that they'll decide they don't like your passport. This problem is particularly pronounced in Scotland because as far as I can see they are currently planning a no-foreigners (including the English Welsh) policy on the door.

The social cost is having people discouraged from re-engaging with society. We have already gone a long way down the road of creating a society of depressed and disengaged oddballs, who will be easily put off by the smallest barrier, and need to be encouraged to re-integrate. Anything which isn't actively fighting for people to socialise at the moment is making things worse. Ultimately we risk raising every social ill from suicide, domestic abuse and other violent crime.
 

kez19

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Joined
15 May 2020
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1,507
Location
Dundee
Covid passports have been available in Scotland for many months in a paper form for free. The app is due to be Available by 1st October.

aah the paper forms, first one just as a plain certificate the next update with the QR codes that don’t work and now scrapping it for the long awaited app better late than never but still I wonder how much this has cost from doing all this - nothing is simple in Scotland we have to be more complicated.
 

92002

Member
Joined
27 Mar 2014
Messages
582
Location
Clydebank
The passports Scotland have been issuing on paper for months are due to be got rid of because they're not secure enough.

Meanwhile the main cost is the economic cost is of people (mainly in the vaccinated 90%) deciding they can't be bothered with the faff and not going out and spending money. The nightlife and pub sectors were fragile enough before Covid and won't cope with even a small fall in demand. For larger events, why bother booking a 50 quid ticket plus a hotel and travel if there's a danger that they'll decide they don't like your passport. This problem is particularly pronounced in Scotland because as far as I can see they are currently planning a no-foreigners (including the English Welsh) policy on the door.

The social cost is having people discouraged from re-engaging with society. We have already gone a long way down the road of creating a society of depressed and disengaged oddballs, who will be easily put off by the smallest barrier, and need to be encouraged to re-integrate. Anything which isn't actively fighting for people to socialise at the moment is making things worse. Ultimately we risk raising every social ill from suicide, domestic abuse and other violent crime.
Not strictly a true statement. You need to be registered with your unique sign in issued with your invitation to attend for your jab. Which protects patient confidentiality. It arrives as a pdf or by mail.

From 1st October you will not be able to attend large gatherings or nightclubs unless you can show it. The obvious next move was to create the app. No certificate or passport, no entry.

So it's your choice to continue to not be vacinnated. Will be written into law in Scotland just like face coverings. Since it was approved by the Government a couple of weeks ago.

aah the paper forms, first one just as a plain certificate the next update with the QR codes that don’t work and now scrapping it for the long awaited app better late than never but still I wonder how much this has cost from doing all this - nothing is simple in Scotland we have to be more complicated.
The app is the equivalent of the EU App
and brings it into line with their digital one. Meantime the paper one with the QR code is accepted as a fit to fly certificate if you want to go on holiday.
 
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kez19

Established Member
Joined
15 May 2020
Messages
1,507
Location
Dundee
Not strictly a true statement. You need to be registered with your unique sign in issued with your invitation to attend for your jab. Which protects patient confidentiality. It arrives as a pdf or by mail.

From 1st October you will not be able to attend large gatherings or nightclubs unless you can show it. The obvious next move was to create the app. No certificate or passport, no entry.

So it's your choice to continue to not be vacinnated. Will be written into law in Scotland just like face coverings. Since it was approved by the Government a couple of weeks ago.


The app is the equivalent of the EU App
and brings it into line with their digital one. Meantime the paper one with the QR code is accepted as a fit to fly certificate if you want to go on holiday.

The QR code doesn’t even register and I have an iPhone, not the point really regardless of it’s brought in line with the EU app if we are going down that route it should have been done in the beginning not now.
Just to add but they are scrapping the whole paper certificate unless someone requests it - so why implement something to be later scrapped? Money wasted that could be going somewhere else or for the sake of the NHS money back to them for what they need.

Well we live and learn and now we know Covid isn’t the apocalypse we can definitely relax and go back to normal.

Last night on the tube I would say it was roughly 20-30% mask usage, which is great to see, we need more people to take back normality and not rely on the government to give us it back.

It also confirmed that another lockdown wouldn’t be tolerated, venues may shut but people will gather in other ways regardless, the feeling is very different from last year.

Covid passports are nothing more than a security blanket that has zero health benefits.

Though I see Blair has crawled out from under his rock again to voice his support for ID cards … I mean Covid Passports, if there’s one thing I’ve learnt that anything he voices his support to, most people go the opposite way, the man is a poison chalice who is beyond contempt.

In terms of Blair I’m surprised the media still give him light after the Iraq war of the 00s but still media like to glorify certain people and their lines of thoughts, maybe it is true that both media and politicians are indeed corrupt? (just to point out it’s opinion not stating as fact)
 
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92002

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27 Mar 2014
Messages
582
Location
Clydebank
The QR code doesn’t even register and I have an iPhone, not the point really regardless of it’s brought in line with the EU app if we are going down that route it should have been done in the beginning not now
Seemed to register fine with EU entry passport check a couple of weeks ago.
 

kez19

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15 May 2020
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Dundee
Seemed to register fine with EU entry passport check a couple of weeks ago.

It only worked with certain apps - the France one I believe but it didn’t work on the NHS verifier but if I was to be required this in England I wouldn’t have gained entry (not that I go to pubs or nightclubs but that’s just the point), the app should have been universal in the UK

Regarding app: what works for you might not for others.
 

35B

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19 Dec 2011
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1,803
It only worked with certain apps - the France one I believe but it didn’t work on the NHS verifier but if I was to be required this in England I wouldn’t have gained entry (not that I go to pubs or nightclubs but that’s just the point), the app should have been universal in the UK

Regarding app: what works for you might not for others.
I think the devolution settlement is for a different thread - but as health is a devolved matter, it was always going to be the case that each nation in the UK would do their own thing.
 

92002

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Messages
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Location
Clydebank
It only worked with certain apps - the France one I believe but it didn’t work on the NHS verifier but if I was to be required this in England I wouldn’t have gained entry (not that I go to pubs or nightclubs but that’s just the point), the app should have been universal in the UK

Regarding app: what works for you might not for others.
My EU journey was not to France and I got in.

Seems the app work has ready been done and will no doubt be sold to any other country. Unfortunately health is a devolved function. So each country can do their own thing. Just like lateral flow tests bring accepted in England, with the other 3 countries insisting on PCR tests. No matter whether they are more expensive they are more accurate.
 

kez19

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Dundee
I think the devolution settlement is for a different thread - but as health is a devolved matter, it was always going to be the case that each nation in the UK would do their own thing.

I know that health is devolved I’ve known that for a while however this should have been an exception if that was the case but yes let’s play politics and point scoring than working together? I guess people are happy with this setup then, I been vaccinated I visit somewhere else in UK I can be refused entry but no one seems to care?

My EU journey was not to France and I got in.

Seems the app work has ready been done and will no doubt be sold to any other country. Unfortunately health is a devolved function. So each country can do their own thing. Just like lateral flow tests bring accepted in England, with the other 3 countries insisting on PCR tests. No matter whether they are more expensive they are more accurate.

I was only pointing out where one app accepted a code I wasn’t implying you had gone to France.

I was pointing out that say I tried entering a venue in England with what I have I could be refused whilst everyone else seems to care more about going abroad for people like myself that prefers to holiday in the UK do people not see barriers being put up or do we just stick our heads in the sand?
 
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NorthKent1989

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13 May 2017
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1,313
The government will only intervene if they feel the situation is getting out of control. However I don't think you can speak for others in the way you have by saying the feeling is very different to last year.

And how would the situation get out of control? Okay we have to live with Covid simple as, I think you’ll be disappointed to learn that most people are moving on from Covid, the only people who are still scared are the doom-mongers who for some bizarre reason are adverse to normality.

The fact is we are in a much different and better place than last year, people are getting vaccinated, we have been living with Covid restriction free for nearly three months now and there’s been no disaster, so I am correct in saying that the feeling is indeed very different from last year.
 

Philip

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Joined
27 May 2007
Messages
2,330
Location
Manchester
And how would the situation get out of control? Okay we have to live with Covid simple as, I think you’ll be disappointed to learn that most people are moving on from Covid, the only people who are still scared are the doom-mongers who for some bizarre reason are adverse to normality.

The fact is we are in a much different and better place than last year, people are getting vaccinated, we have been living with Covid restriction free for nearly three months now and there’s been no disaster, so I am correct in saying that the feeling is indeed very different from last year.

It's not a case of being scared or hysterical, some people just want to continue to be cautious while it's so soon and while cases are still high. It might be that only time will gradually see a return to 'normality' as you define it.

It's not all good either compared with a year ago; the roads are ridiculously busy throughout the day now, food; gas and electricity bills are soaring, pubs and bars are often packed or fully booked in the evenings (more so than 2 years ago) which isn't much good if you can't get in or prefer a quiet few drinks or meal - I don't blame the government for this either.
 

bramling

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It's not a case of being scared or hysterical, some people just want to continue to be cautious while it's so soon and while cases are still high. It might be that only time will gradually see a return to 'normality' as you define it.

It's not all good either compared with a year ago; the roads are ridiculously busy throughout the day now, food; gas and electricity bills are soaring, pubs and bars are often packed or fully booked in the evenings (more so than 2 years ago) which isn't much good if you can't get in or prefer a quiet few drinks or meal - I don't blame the government for this either.

You’re right, it isn’t all good now compared to a year ago - and the reason? Because some people *want* this to continue.

It’s unfortunately the case that all of us are going to get this at some point or other, and there’s still plenty of millions of people who haven’t had it. We can either spend our entire life dodging the inevitable, or just get on with it.

A lot of the people claiming we need to be cautious are rather selective in this - cautious when it comes to things like performing their full range or work tasks or attending their workplace, but not so cautious about going to the pub or restaurants.
 

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