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Vaccine Passports - currently being considered in Scotland & Wales

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35B

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Have you heard of a concept called "empathy"? People have been genuinely suffering for an extended period, to label these legitimate concerns as "moaning, whining and complaining" is arrogant in the extreme and frankly downright rude
A point that goes both ways, and where there has at times also been a distinct lack of empathy in the opposite direction.
 
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Dent

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A point that goes both ways, and where there has at times also been a distinct lack of empathy in the opposite direction.

What are you referring to? I was ceiling out an extremely rude and arrogant post, why are you trying to undermine my calling out of this abusive member?
 

DustyBin

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A point that goes both ways, and where there has at times also been a distinct lack of empathy in the opposite direction.

True, although I think a lot of this stems from the fact that peoples concerns have been ignored and the negative effects of restrictions brushed under the carpet for so long. It has felt as though the fight against covid is all that matters at times, and that it must be won at any cost....
 

Bikeman78

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I'd be fascinated to know who these people are, because I've not come across them. Those I've come across have been consistent about their attitude to risk whether considering work or their social life; slackers have continued to look for excuses and the hard working to have worked hard.
Yes there are plenty of people that have done next to nothing for 18 months but the people that bramling refers to definitely exist. One only has to look at Facebook. Can't go to work, or sell tickets on a train, but a group hug in the pub is absolutely fine!
 

35B

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What are you referring to? I was ceiling out an extremely rude and arrogant post, why are you trying to undermine my calling out of this abusive member?
I am referring to the way that many posters on the anti-restrictions side of the debate have shown zero empathy towards those who express concerns. You're entirely justified in asking for empathy for those who've struggled as a result of Covid restrictions, but there are plenty on here who should consider that the need for empathy cuts both ways. As for the post you "called out", I thought it extremely well aimed and a very fair challenge.
 

Dent

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I am referring to the way that many posters on the anti-restrictions side of the debate have shown zero empathy towards those who express concerns. You're entirely justified in asking for empathy for those who've struggled as a result of Covid restrictions, but there are plenty on here who should consider that the need for empathy cuts both ways.

All that is just whataboutery on your part, and an unhlpful attempt to undermine the need for empathy towards those suffering.

As for the post you "called out", I thought it extremely well aimed and a very fair challenge.

Do you think it is " extremely well aimed and a very fair challenge" to label those who:
  • Haven't seen family abroad for nearly two years
  • Have lost their job, have no income and facing regular visits to the foodbank
  • Have had their education been decimated and you are worried for their future with exams just around the corner
  • Are scared to leave the house because of constant scaremongering messaging
  • Are now suffering from serious illness because you couldn't receive even the most basic of treatment that would have easily prevented it
as "just being damn right selfish and self centred" and accuse them of "moaning, whining and complaining" if they ever dare to mention that such concerns exist?

That says a lot about your attitude towards your fellow man.
 

bramling

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A point that goes both ways, and where there has at times also been a distinct lack of empathy in the opposite direction.

Should we be surprised by this? Round my way there has, at times, been some pretty vicious stuff directed in particular at young people, just for daring to do stuff as mortally bad as sit on a bench.

“I went to town and was shocked to see youngsters sitting on the town benches, how must it feel for elderly people having to walk past these Covidiots?”.

Having put their life on hold for over a year clearly isn’t enough for some, and if we’re at the point where whatever people do is not enough then no wonder a lot of people are simply no longer interested.
 

NorthKent1989

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I am referring to the way that many posters on the anti-restrictions side of the debate have shown zero empathy towards those who express concerns. You're entirely justified in asking for empathy for those who've struggled as a result of Covid restrictions, but there are plenty on here who should consider that the need for empathy cuts both ways. As for the post you "called out", I thought it extremely well aimed and a very fair challenge.

Just like many who are pro restrictions have shown a lack of empathy to those suffering from the restrictions, I really think the pro restrictions crowd have no right to feel victimised they’ve had it their own way for 18 months with media and political support.

Nothing aside from Covid has been talked or discussed about, mental health issues were being spoken about before Covid and since Covid it feels that we taken a massive step backwards in that area.

So forgive me if I don’t consider the feelings of those who advocate for more harmful restrictions unnecessarily and without good reason other than “cases going up” I’m done.
 
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Philip

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Should we be surprised by this? Round my way there has, at times, been some pretty vicious stuff directed in particular at young people, just for daring to do stuff as mortally bad as sit on a bench.

“I went to town and was shocked to see youngsters sitting on the town benches, how must it feel for elderly people having to walk past these Covidiots?”.

Having put their life on hold for over a year clearly isn’t enough for some, and if we’re at the point where whatever people do is not enough then no wonder a lot of people are simply no longer interested.

If we're talking in general terms, would you really say this time last year youngsters were putting their lives on hold? Pubs were open, people were going out having a good time and for some people even that wasn't enough with people preferring to ignore restrictions and hold drunken house parties. The term is used far too loosely and also it's wrong to make it an 'us and them' scenario between the young and the elderly; many elderly people have suffered as well for various reasons and for some people to claim that the last 18 months have been made up of the young giving up their lives for the elderly is simplistic, ignorant and inaccurate in many cases.
 

Cowley

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Being that this thread is about vaccine passports I’d say that it’s probably time to get back on that topic and/or go and have a cup of tea and relax for ten minutes and give yourselves a break. :)
I can feel the simmering tension buildup happening and it’s probably time to pull back for a bit…

Thanks!
 

kez19

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If we're talking in general terms, would you really say this time last year youngsters were putting their lives on hold? Pubs were open, people were going out having a good time and for some people even that wasn't enough with people preferring to ignore restrictions and hold drunken house parties. The term is used far too loosely and also it's wrong to make it an 'us and them' scenario between the young and the elderly; many elderly people have suffered as well for various reasons and for some people to claim that the last 18 months have been made up of the young giving up their lives for the elderly is simplistic, ignorant and inaccurate in many cases.

Yet I could look at this differently but isn’t the media created this atmosphere us and them? In my mind they have just as much as the politicians and the likes of SAGE, but you kick up a fuss of people breaking rules but yet be Professor Ferguson or Boris you don’t say much of a peep (not you personally).

Just like many who are pro restrictions have shown a lack of empathy to those suffering from the restrictions, I really think the pro restrictions crowd have no right to feel victimised they’ve had it their own way for 18 months with media and political support.

Nothing aside from Covid has been talked or discussed about, mental health issues were being spoken about before Covid and since Covid it feels that we taken a massive step backwards in that area.

So forgive me if I don’t consider the feelings of those who advocate for more harmful restrictions unnecessarily and without good reason other than “cases going up” I’m done.

That’s been the problem from the outset in terms of media and politics it’s all very pro restrictions.

I remember in my area a local councillor had said anyone having illegal parties (neighbours to call on police), strangely enough would the police come round to these in normal times?

The whole thing has gone far too political it’s no longer follow the science and it has created further divisions in society but we don’t see our politicians calling for calm either do we?


As on the media side it’s just giving the pro restrictions ammo, yet we don’t see them telling Ferguson his models are wrong but still we will interview him (regardless he broke lockdown rules too), but still be joe public breaking rules let’s humiliate them by media

If you want to hold people accountable for actions I suggest we look at the media governments and SAGE for starters but of course what I suggest here people will read this and ignore but still say it’s an individual responsibility, if so then the buck stops with those in charge first not us (the public)
 
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Annetts key

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Tell that to someone who has been struggling for months on a 20% pay cut, or have lost their jobs altogether. Tell them they are whining.

Seriously some people are so far removed from the reality of others....
I do really feel sorry for people who have lost their job, or had a pay cut. But they still are likely to have a better life compared to people elsewhere in the world, or even some of the poor in this country who don’t even live in what we would call reasonable fit for purpose housing.
Is this some sort of twisted race to the bottom? Insinuating that we should be happy with the past 18 months because others have had it worse is laughable.
Certainly not. Indeed, I want the opposite. I want people to fight against the cut in universal credit that the current CONservative government is intending. The increase in National Insurance is more tax that the poor and the ordinary workers will pay, whilst the impact on those far more able to pay will be minimal.
  • Haven't seen family abroad for nearly two years?
  • Lost your job, have no income and facing regular visits to the foodbank?
  • Has your education been decimated and you are worried for your future with exams just around the corner?
  • Scared to leave the house because of constant scaremongering messaging?
  • Now suffering from serious illness because you couldn't receive even the most basic of treatment that would have easily prevented it?

If this applies to you then it seems you are nothing but a selfish, self centered whinger.
So seeing family is seen as far more important than their health?
I do really feel sorry for people who have lost their job, or had a pay cut. But look at how some companies were very quick to get rid of their staff. And in this country, we are SUPPOSED to have a good welfare state. So look at which governments have messed the system up. That’s where the blame should go.
Food bank use has been going up at an alarming rate even before anyone in the country had even heard of COVID19.
Yes, the problems with the loss of education time do need addressing. But our schools were struggling before COVID19. They’ve been under resourced for years. And it’s often the children in the poor or deprived areas that suffer the most. Lockdowns have made this worse. But don’t moan here, write to your MP and your council.
Should the NHS have done things differently, I don’t know, maybe. But anyone with any medical condition that they are worried about, should always seek medical help. At the very least, telephone 111 and ask for advice.
Have you heard of a concept called "empathy"? People have been genuinely suffering for an extended period, to label these legitimate concerns as "moaning, whining and complaining" is arrogant in the extreme and frankly downright rude
Yes, I’ve heard of empathy. It’s part of my role to help people who come to me or contact me for help. The difference is I put as much effort in as I can to help them. But here, in this thread, I see little evidence of people trying to help others. They instead prefer to moan about how proposed or actual restrictions will effect them, or occasionally people who they know,
What an utterly selfish point of view, and you think you can call others selfish, take a good long hard look in the mirror.

People have suffered greatly with their mental health, who do you think you are to judge others on how they’ve dealt with this period? I hope no one suffering mentally or emotionally never goes to you for advice.

There is nothing normal about universities and schools being online, children’s mental health has suffered greatly, prior have lost jobs and businesses and haven’t been able to go to loved ones funerals because of restrictions.

By the way 18 months is nearly two years so get some perspective and learn empathy, because you’re seriously lacking in that department.
Me selfish, yeah, right. I selfishly worked throughout the whole of all the lock downs (apart from for 14 days early on when as per government guidelines, I isolated because another family member thought they may have caught COVID19).
I selfishly obtained advice from government websites and my union and helped and advised my fellow workers.
Meanwhile I continued with my role helping people that come to me or who contact me.
And yes, I’m well aware of mental health issues.
On average, at least two people attempt to commit suicide, or go trackside while in a poor mental state, just on the Network Rail Western route alone.
Unfortunately treating mental health is still very underfunded, and far too many people don’t treat the subject seriously.
Of course we don’t want anymore lockdowns. I don’t. And I don’t think any significant number of people do either.
18 months is exactly one and a half years. Not nearly two years.

Oh and back on topic, I don’t think vaccination passports are the solution to anything.
 
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island

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The amount of moaning, whining and complaining in this thread is quite unbelievable. So you may feel that you’ve lost 18 months of your life. Quite frankly, that’s just being damn right selfish and self centred.

There are millions of people around the world who have it far, far worse, and who, if given the chance, would be happy to exchange your place in the U.K. with their current situation.
I would suggest that once you’ve come down off your high horse you have a read about the fallacy of relative privation.
 

takno

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I do really feel sorry for people who have lost their job, or had a pay cut. But they still are likely to have a better life compared to people elsewhere in the world, or even some of the poor in this country who don’t even live in what we would call reasonable fit for purpose housing.

Certainly not. Indeed, I want the opposite. I want people to fight against the cut in universal credit that the current CONservative government is intending. The increase in National Insurance is more tax that the poor and the ordinary workers will pay, whilst the impact on those far more able to pay will be minimal.

So seeing family is seen as far more important than their health?
I do really feel sorry for people who have lost their job, or had a pay cut. But look at how some companies were very quick to get rid of their staff. And in this country, we are SUPPOSED to have a good welfare state. So look at which governments have messed the system up. That’s where the blame should go.
Food bank use has been going up at an alarming rate even before anyone in the country had even heard of COVID19.
Yes, the problems with the loss of education time do need addressing. But our schools were struggling before COVID19. They’ve been under resourced for years. And it’s often the children in the poor or deprived areas that suffer the most. Lockdowns have made this worse. But don’t moan here, write to your MP and your council.
Should the NHS have done things differently, I don’t know, maybe. But anyone with any medical condition that they are worried about, should always seek medical help. At the very least, telephone 111 and ask for advice.

Yes, I’ve heard of empathy. It’s part of my role to help people who come to me or contact me for help. The difference is I put as much effort in as I can to help them. But here, in this thread, I see little evidence of people trying to help others. They instead prefer to moan about how proposed or actual restrictions will effect them, or occasionally people who they know,

Me selfish, yeah, right. I selfishly worked throughout the whole of all the lock downs (apart from for 14 days early on when as per government guidelines, I isolated because another family member thought they may have caught COVID19).
I selfishly obtained advice from government websites and my union and helped and advised my fellow workers.
Meanwhile I continued with my role helping people that come to me or who contact me.
And yes, I’m well aware of mental health issues.
On average, at least two people attempt to commit suicide, or go trackside while in a poor mental state, just on the Network Rail Western route alone.
Unfortunately treating mental health is still very underfunded, and far too many people don’t treat the subject seriously.
Of course we don’t want anymore lockdowns. I don’t. And I don’t think any significant number of people do either.
18 months is exactly one and a half years. Not nearly two years.

Oh and back on topic, I don’t think vaccination passports are the solution to anything.
So you actually agree with most of us on the topic of the thread, but still want to take the time out to tell us that you think we're pathetic? It's really strange how important it is to some people to lose arguments in order to prove that they are more righteous.
 

VauxhallandI

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So you actually agree with most of us on the topic of the thread, but still want to take the time out to tell us that you think we're pathetic? It's really strange how important it is to some people to lose arguments in order to prove that they are more righteous.
Yep by their logic we need to find the most disadvantaged person on the planet then everyone else can shut up and get on with it, quite an exercise that would be.
 

Cowley

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I think we need to have a break from this subject for 24 hours personally, so this is going to be locked for now.
Get some sleep people! It’ll all look better in the morning (possibly). ;)
 
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