Vivarail 373s?

[notadriver]

I thought it was due to the unknown affects of two pantographs on the overheads at speeds of more than 110 mph.

Even the French don't want surplus Eurostars for their dedicated high speed lines; they are too slow (!)

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Lease them to RENFE AVE or Deutsch Bahn to run international services. That way the French can't throw their toys out the pram about the trains not being safe for use in the Chunnel.

How long could they not go through the tunnel for before their tunnel safety certificate/case were to expire?

I thought it was due to the unknown affects of two pantographs on the overheads at speeds of more than 110 mph.

Even the French don't want surplus Eurostars for their dedicated high speed lines; they are too slow (!)

SNCF will go for the new AGVs which if i remember correctly have got distributed traction so should be much quicker accelerating (also probably gives them a little redundancy in case a traction motor fails)

 

[jopsuk]

Even the French don't want surplus Eurostars for their dedicated high speed lines; they are too slow (!)

That reason surely comes behind them being long, technically over-complicated narrow single deckers when the TGV fleet is moving to Duplex and makes a lot of use of splitting? The Sud-Est, Atlantique & Reseau fleets are all 300km/h just like the TMST
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

SNCF will go for the new AGVs which if i remember correctly have got distributed traction so should be much quicker accelerating (also probably gives them a little redundancy in case a traction motor fails)

So far SNCF have shown little interest in AGV and have continued to order evolutions of TGV Duplex (curently the 2N2 version). Until Alstom sort the design for the AGV Duplex this is likely to remain the case.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Presumably the huge power draw is at 180mph ? That's going to be significantly less at 110-125mph
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also, which routes did the North of London sets operate on ? If they ran previously I'd expect there to be little preventing reuse on those same routes ?

The largest power draw is to get them moving at all.

 

[bluenoxid]

Europe is quite big and there are plenty of operators looking for stock

 

[RobShipway]

Weren't the 14 NoL sets 8 coaches long, with set 3308 at the National Transport museum?

Could the 373/2's not be converted to EDMU trains and have one power car with the pantograph and the other with a MTU engine within it?

 

[Ash Bridge]

Weren't the 14 NoL sets 8 coaches long, with set 3308 at the National Transport museum?

Could the 373/2's not be converted to EDMU trains and have one power car with the pantograph and the other with a MTU engine within it?

Just one engine to power a 16 coach trainset?

 

[notadriver]

The largest power draw is to get them moving at all.

I disagree. Isn't power draw limited by the amount of amps the motors can take at low speeds ? The 750V DC third rail system gave Eurostar the same performance as contemporary slam door stock in use on main line services at the time (better in some cases).

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Presumably the huge power draw is at 180mph ? That's going to be significantly less at 110-125mph
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also, which routes did the North of London sets operate on ? If they ran previously I'd expect there to be little preventing reuse on those same routes ?

the NoL sets never ran on any of their planned routes, a few were used on Leeds - kgx

 

[notadriver]

That reason surely comes behind them being long, technically over-complicated narrow single deckers when the TGV fleet is moving to Duplex and makes a lot of use of splitting? The Sud-Est, Atlantique & Reseau fleets are all 300km/h just like the TMST
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---




So far SNCF have shown little interest in AGV and have continued to order evolutions of TGV Duplex (curently the 2N2 version). Until Alstom sort the design for the AGV Duplex this is likely to remain the case.

The TGV POS seems to be the latest variant in use. The TMST has a poor power to weight ratio making them slow both on high speed lines never mind off that high speed under 1500 V DC.

 

[59CosG95]

A pointlessly childish name for the Voyagers.

Ok, you got me there!

 

[RobShipway]

Just one engine to power a 16 coach trainset?

Good point, as I think that you would need an engine in each half set as I doubt that there is way to place an engine under each carriage Voyager like.

I also think that the sets with 16 coaches would be too long to drag by any locomotive.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I also think that the sets with 16 coaches would be too long to drag by any locomotive.

I wonder if anyone knows what the longest British 20th century full bogied train with standard length coaches that was pulled by one of a 7P or 8P rated steam locomotive in a normal timetabled pattern.

 

[jopsuk]

The TGV POS seems to be the latest variant in use.

The POS sets are a bit of an oddity- they're Reseau trailer sets (built with Reseau power cars) with new-build power cars to the Duplex Dayse (second generation) design, with the Reseau power cars then used for Duplex units.

The 2N2 have tricurrent power cars and a slightly redesigned upper deck.

It seems the last single deck coaches built for SNCF TGV were built around 1996. The absolute last were the Thalys PBKA sets in 1998.

SNCF REALLY like the Duplex

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Sily question but could they still draw 3rd rail power or be retrofitted to do this?

Could find use on South West expresses?

If Vivarail are doing the refit then they might well be stripping out all existing seat formations etc. so capacity concerns and catering facilities could be addressed.

 

[THC]

Too much speculation here - and while that's enjoyable in and of itself, let's think about the reality. Vivarail has its hands full with the relatively simple D stock conversions, assuming (and that's a leap of faith) that Mr Shooter manages to attract sufficient orders. There is little chance that the cottage workshop at Long Marston could be geared up to handle the far more complex 373/2s, even if there were i) sufficient of them to generate the necessary economies of scale, and ii) customers expressing an interest to take them on.

THC

 

[edwin_m]

There was also some concern about the pantographs, which were designed to exert large upward forces for high-speed operation on constant height OLE. This wasn't great for the much more fragile ECML equipment and has even been suggested as a cause of some of the many dewirements on that route. This would presumably also have been a problem had the North of London through service ever started.

If the 373s were refurbished for use only in the UK, I guess the pantographs would be swapped for a type more suited to the UK - I believe this couldn't be done before because they had to remain compatible with Eurostar operations. However I can't see any UK use for them, especially now the design costs of the SET will have been written off by the initial orders so extending the production run will be relatively cheap. There are also going to be 225 sets available should someone want a lower-cost option.

 

[NSEFAN]

Sily question but could they still draw 3rd rail power or be retrofitted to do this?

Could find use on South West expresses?

No thanks. A lot of room is wasted with those power cars, and 10/12 coach trains out of Waterloo are already rammed during the peaks. Intercity work is what they were built for and they should stick to it.

 

[D365]

No thanks. A lot of room is wasted with those power cars, and 10/12 coach trains out of Waterloo are already rammed during the peaks. Intercity work is what they were built for and they should stick to it.

They'd be perfect for Waterloo International though

 

[jopsuk]

They'd be perfect for Waterloo International though

which has direct access to, erm, the Windsor side and the congested Chatham lines out of Victoria.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Too much speculation here - and while that's enjoyable in and of itself, let's think about the reality. Vivarail has its hands full with the relatively simple D stock conversions, assuming (and that's a leap of faith) that Mr Shooter manages to attract sufficient orders. There is little chance that the cottage workshop at Long Marston could be geared up to handle the far more complex 373/2s, even if there were i) sufficient of them to generate the necessary economies of scale, and ii) customers expressing an interest to take them on.

THC

True but the D stock might have been aimed as much as portfolio and PR exercise as an actual viable train. They would probably drop it if a paid 373 contract emerged.

There is nothing to suggest the work would have to be carried out at Long Marsden. With big contract money they might be able to rent more substantial facilities and hire more staff, it maybe not even in the UK (especially if the trains are destined for overseas use).