Vivarail to develop battery 321

[Bob Price]

This article from Rail Advent details an agreement between Eversholt and Vivarail. The plan is to take the ex Greater Anglia 321's like the one pictured and add batteries. This will potentially offer 20 to 30 miles of range off the wires.

There have been a few articles about this doing the rounds today, but where would these operate?

According to the article:

The Class 321 Renatus Fleet of electric trains could become a Battery Electric Multiple Unit (BEMU) thanks to a new deal between Eversholt Rail and Vivarail.


The 30 strong fleet is thanks to a £65m investment in AC traction, air con and interior upgrade.

Both Vivarail and Eversholt Rail has discussed the options with various operators and the Department for Transport. The case development will continue in 2022 and further investment in the fleet will be confirmed in due course.

Potential 20 to 30 miles would perhaps allow Windermere runs, Cardiff to Bristol, GWR Bedwyn services etc. However I am sceptical about if there is a market.

 

[D365]

Vivarail has been making noises about selling their battery expertise, so this is exactly the next step that I was expecting. Makes sense to Eversholt to sound out an opportunity for reengineering of the retractioned /refurbished Renatus units.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

As someone who lives in a city served by the mournful 769s, this fills me with dread.

 

[D365]

As someone who lives in a city served by the mournful 769s, this fills me with dread.

It’s worth pointing out that only the refurbished ”Renatus” units are being considered. As opposed to the Class 769s, which I don’t believe have seen any significant interior overhaul.

 

[Bob Price]

Also it's changing from overhead to batteries. The issue with the 769's seems to be the diesel elements, especially on TfW lines where they struggle on the hills up the valleys. This may actually work and be useful

 

[43096]

It’s worth pointing out that only the refurbished ”Renatus” units are being considered. As opposed to the Class 769s, which I don’t believe have seen any significant interior overhaul.

The Renatus sets of course having the appalling “ironing boards”, which are definitely not an improvement (and the originals weren’t great).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Where they will work is almost (imho) irrelevant. If they are planning going a la Scotland, then BEMUs are essential component of a rolling program of (warning treasury dirty word coming up) electrification.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It’s worth pointing out that only the refurbished ”Renatus” units are being considered. As opposed to the Class 769s, which I don’t believe have seen any significant interior overhaul.

It’s more the appalling reliability and very slow movement post conversion that makes them so unpopular.

 

[Energy]

Adding batteries should be considerably easier than fitting a diesel engine like the 769...

 

[skyhigh]

Adding batteries should be considerably easier than fitting a diesel engine like the 769...

Until proven otherwise I am fairly sceptical of 'easy' conversions. Porterbrook seemed to suggest the 769s would be an easy conversion - you simply use engines to supply the 750v in place of 3rd rail. In reality...

I'd love to be proven wrong but I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

[trebor79]

It’s worth pointing out that only the refurbished ”Renatus” units are being considered. As opposed to the Class 769s, which I don’t believe have seen any significant interior overhaul.

To be honest on the few times I was unlucky enough to travel on them, I preferred an unrefurbished 321 as the Renatus had a horribly stuffy and muggy interior due to no opening windows and the air con being ineffective.

 

[Bob Price]

The fact that Vivarail have a battery unit that works and is about to start trials on a GWR branch is a positive. My feeling is change of electric traction is likely to be more straightforward than strapping engines underneath. Much as I love the 230 concept the reality has been different and there have been big unforseen issues. At least with these they know the units are in good shape which the 319's were not and the battery tech works

 

[Bertie the bus]

There is going to be no market for a unit with a range of 20 - 30 miles. It will get as much use as that parcel conversion unit dumped at Doncaster RMT.

 

[Neptune]

The Renatus sets of course having the appalling “ironing boards”, which are definitely not an improvement (and the originals weren’t great).

And as usual when seating inevitably gets brought up on here it’s all a matter of opinion. There are plenty of people on here who wouldn’t agree with you, myself included.

I personally find the low seatbase with the awful reclined position backrest of the Ashbourne seat absolute torture but I accept that some people like them.

It’s life, you can’t please all of the people all of the time.

 

[DanNCL]

The Renatus sets of course having the appalling “ironing boards”, which are definitely not an improvement (and the originals weren’t great).

The Renatus units do not have ironing boards.

 

[JonathanH]

The Renatus units do not have ironing boards.

The tops of the seats are shaped like ironing boards.

I agree they are a type of seat not installed in other units and are a little more comfortable than the 377/6, 387 and 700 seat.

 

[Stephen Lee]

However some 321s are scrapped.......

 

[JonathanH]

However some 321s are scrapped.......

That doesn't matter. The proposal is only to make something of the 30 321s that were given the new traction package and internal refurbishment.

(There are separately some 321/4s stored that were intended for hydrogen class 600 conversions.)

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Until proven otherwise I am fairly sceptical of 'easy' conversions. Porterbrook seemed to suggest the 769s would be an easy conversion - you simply use engines to supply the 750v in place of 3rd rail. In reality...

I'd love to be proven wrong but I'm not getting my hopes up.

That is exactly my view too. I would be delighted if I am proved wrong.

 

[pdeaves]

Before people get too hung up on seat types, remember that they can be replaced at any time without messing up the reliability of getting from A to B.

 

[Doomotron]

The Renatus sets of course having the appalling “ironing boards”, which are definitely not an improvement (and the originals weren’t great).

Not ironing boards, they are one of the only uses of the better Quantum M101 seat.

 

[Wyrleybart]

The fact that Vivarail have a battery unit that works and is about to start trials on a GWR branch is a positive.

Hmmm. does it work ? We haven't see it in action yet ? I agree it SHOULD work but I will reserve judgement

My feeling is change of electric traction is likely to be more straightforward than strapping engines underneath. Much as I love the 230 concept the reality has been different and there have been big unforeseen issues. At least with these they know the units are in good shape which the 319's were not and the battery tech works

With respect Porterbrook should have known exactly what condition the 769s were in - before they dumped them in fields in Warwickshire. The fact they didn't refurbish the traction motors during the conversion is penny wise pound foolish, but is only one of a number of issues. We were told the bus wire down the train was really handy and could be used to link the two gensets together and "pretend" they were running on 750V DC. In actual fact, part of the rebuilding process was to install another bus along the train, simply because they could no longer rely on the return current passing through the rails.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Adding batteries should be considerably easier than fitting a diesel engine like the 769...

How does a 321 charge its existing batteries currently? Does it have a motor alternator or a statcon or inverter?

Apologies but I'm no expert on those units, they use a funny coat hanger thing to get their power.

Class 321 EMUs upgrades - Gemini Rail Group

www.geminirailgroup.co.uk

Kiepe Electric in Düsseldorf is responsible for the manufacture and delivery of the AC traction equipment including the Main Transformer, AC Traction Motors, Traction Converter, Auxiliary Power Supply Unit and the installation of a modern braking system with improved wheel-slide prevention.

Now I've thought about it, that's the APSU and this would have had to be done to power the HVACs that were added by Wabtec.

 

[RichJF]

Wonder if Porterbrook will be watching as basis for a future project with the 350/2s?

 

[Bald Rick]

There is going to be no market for a unit with a range of 20 - 30 miles. It will get as much use as that parcel conversion unit dumped at Doncaster RMT.

Oh there is!

 

[Bertie the bus]

This is the future of rail travel in Britain then is it? Strap something to a 30 or 40 year old unit and boast about how the rail industry is saving the planet.

If there is such an eager market why has there been no progress since they stuck a battery on a Class 379 8 years ago?

 

[Energy]

If there is such an eager market why has there been no progress since they stuck a battery on a Class 379 8 years ago?

Because battery technology hadn't suitably developed until fairly recently? The rail industry is always a couple years behind with technology from other industries.

Fuel prices and concern about the environment have both gone up considerably since then.

 

[Bald Rick]

If there is such an eager market why has there been no progress since they stuck a battery on a Class 379 8 years ago?

because there hasn’t been a need to?

 

[Fincra5]

There is going to be no market for a unit with a range of 20 - 30 miles. It will get as much use as that parcel conversion unit dumped at Doncaster RMT.

There clearly is.... lots of sort branches off a OHLE section where that range will be sufficient. Some have already been mentioned.

Whos to say the ReGen can't be used to assist with battery top up too?

Lots of free space under a 321 for batteries!

 

[D365]

It’s more the appalling reliability and very slow movement post conversion that makes them so unpopular.

Battery conversion will be an entirely different kettle of fish.

This is the future of rail travel in Britain then is it? Strap something to a 30 or 40 year old unit and boast about how the rail industry is saving the planet.

if those Renatus units were scrapped, somebody else would be complaining about the waste…