Watford Blockades

[sd0733]

Last time when trains were arriving and terminating at Northampton, the Hemel shuttle trains departed as we arrived into the platform. Quite why they couldn't connect seeing as very very little was running seems crazy or they could have even been even more sensible and run the hemel services through to Birmingham/crewe and at least got people south as far as possible in one go.
I think the announcements last time that 'if you have to travel by train please allow extra time' shows that in reality it could be they are deliberately trying to put passengers off by providing the least convenient, slowest journey possible. There will be senior management floating around stations, doing nothing useful as there was last time and at the end of it several e-mails will come through congratulating people(management mostly) on how well it all went and that all passengers got where they wanted to be on the same day they set off.
not that I'm at all cynical about the way my dear employer operates or anything but I'm sure they'll be receiving some 'financial assistance' for the disruption from NR probably most of the revenue is covered anyway so why do you need to carry passengers. They seem oblivious to the fact though that once people try another means I.e coaches/driving they might think that was quite good actually we'll do that in future rather than the train.

 

[yorkie]

Instead they choose to run the rail replacement buses from Hemel to Stanmore. So instead of a short bus ride and a fast train into London St Pancras, passengers are now forced on to a slow bus to Stanmore before having to take the slow Jubilee Line to Wembley Park and then the Met to Euston Square. It must add at least 60 minutes to the journey compared to going via St Albans, and for absolutely no reason at all.

There will be a reason: it will be cheaper for LM to do that, so that more of the compensation money goes to LM, than to passenger convenience

I've heard that such disruption, for which Network Rail (ie, taxpayers) pay huge amounts to operators, can be very profitable for TOCs!

 

[Tetchytyke]

There will be a reason: it will be cheaper for LM to do that, so that more of the compensation money goes to LM, than to passenger convenience

I've heard that such disruption, for which Network Rail (ie, taxpayers) pay huge amounts to operators, can be very profitable for TOCs!

Ooh you are cynical.

Meanwhile, those of us with useless Gold Cards get **** all in terms of compensation...

 

[The Planner]

The Schedule 4 compensation regime to compensate the TOCs for Watford wasn't one of the reasons it went from one block to many, ahem....

 

[infobleep]

It sounds like it's every man or woman and company for themselves. Stuff anyone else.

 

[Cletus]

Can someone point me in the direction of details of the Christmas closures. Virgin's website only goes up to 28th December and I'm looking at travelling on the 29th.

http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/updates/dec//#travelUpdatesForm

Routes:
London - Birmingham - Wolverhampton
London & West Midlands - Chester & North Wales
London - Liverpool & Manchester
London & West Midlands - North West & Scotland
Date: From Saturday 27 December until Sunday 28 December
What is happening?
Due to a major engineering project, the line between London Euston and Watford Junction, will be closed to Virgin Trains services, all weekend.

Most of our services will start from / terminate at either Milton Keynes Central or Rugby. We will be operating an hourly service between London Euston, Coventry and Birmingham International, via the Chiltern route.

More details to follow

I basically want to know if the WCML is open on the 29th December.

 

[Class 170101]

Can someone point me in the direction of details of the Christmas closures. Virgin's website only goes up to 28th December and I'm looking at travelling on the 29th.

http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/updates/dec//#travelUpdatesForm



I basically want to know if the WCML is open on the 29th December.

Have a look here
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/71618.aspx

 

[Philip Elliott]

The link is a little misleading.. "to December 29th"...yes to 4am or so! The route is open and the VT service will be 99% of normal for a Monday.

 

[The Planner]

No 2 track until the middle of the day then? I thought that was the general idea after a block at Watford?

 

[Cletus]

The link is a little misleading.. "to December 29th"...yes to 4am or so! The route is open and the VT service will be 99% of normal for a Monday.

That's what I'm hoping for.

 

[Saint66]

Thought this may as well be posted in here, seeing as it links to the Watford upgrades:

Major work to renew the junction connecting the railway line between Watford Junction and St Albans Abbey and the West Coast Main Line will start later this month.

The work is part of a £81m project to deliver a more reliable railway between Milton Keynes and London Euston.


For four weeks the Abbey Line will close to allow engineers to also modernise the signalling equipment on this part of the network.

Jim Syddall, acting route managing director for Network Rail, said: "The section of track through Watford Junction is one of the most intensively used, high-speed pieces of railway in Britain and has seen tremendous growth in traffic and passengers over the last five years.

"A key part of the scheme to upgrade the track and signalling through Watford includes the renewal of the junction which connects the Abbey Line to the West Coast Main Line.

"To achieve this, without having to significantly disrupt services on the West Coast Main Line, we need to close the Abbey line for four weeks. When the work is completed, the junction which is currently manually operated will be mechanised and operated with more modern technology.

"There is never a good time to close the railway and we apologise for the inconvenience this will cause but this work is essential to maintain reliable train services for passengers who travel on the Abbey line."

The Abbey line will be closed from 7.40pm on November 29 until 5.54pm on December 29. Buses will replace trains and will run between Watford Junction and St Albans City train stations, stopping at all Abbey Line stations.

 

[Class 170101]

Surely it would have been better to time the possession such that the Abbey branch would be blocked for a month back timed from Monday 5 January 2015 including the quieter Christmas to New Year period?

 

[Bald Rick]

Surely it would have been better to time the possession such that the Abbey branch would be blocked for a month back timed from Monday 5 January 2015 including the quieter Christmas to New Year period?

Presumably, the commissioning of the new junction and signalling on to the branch has to be done concurrently with the commissioning of the new Watford interlocking, which also finishes on 29/12.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The Abbey Line junction with the WCML is currently a ground frame. I assume the new junction for the Abbey Line has to be commissioned at the same time as the rest of the work at Watford, which will take place over Christmas. It isn't ideal shutting the line on the run up to Christmas, mind.

Very annoying for the people who live along the line, though, given that Thameslink can't possibly let them travel via St Albans City.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The Abbey Line junction with the WCML is currently a ground frame. I assume the new junction for the Abbey Line has to be commissioned at the same time as the rest of the work at Watford, which will take place over Christmas. It isn't ideal shutting the line on the run up to Christmas, mind.

Very annoying for the people who live along the line, though, given that Thameslink can't possibly let them travel via St Albans City.

It could be arranged with a will (and some cost) for ticket acceptance to be honoured.

 

[DelayRepay]

Very annoying for the people who live along the line, though, given that Thameslink can't possibly let them travel via St Albans City.

Yet the replacement buses are running to St Albans City, not terminating at St Albans Abbey.

 

[John Webb]

The Abbey Line junction with the WCML is currently a ground frame. I assume the new junction for the Abbey Line has to be commissioned at the same time as the rest of the work at Watford, which will take place over Christmas........

I understand that the connection between the Abbey Line and the WCML is currently signalled and that the ground frame allows access/exit from the yard on that side from the Abbey line connection. But I've no idea as to what the changes will be.

 

[Taunton]

For four weeks the Abbey Line will close to allow engineers to also modernise the signalling equipment on this part of the network.

I thought this line was unsignalled, one-train working.

1892 : Great Western converts 177 route miles from Broad Gauge to Standard, including clearing all old rolling stock and sending out new, in 48 hours.

2014 : Network Rail, with all modern technology and equipment, requires four weeks to "modernise the signalling" on one unsignalled one-train branch.

 

[Bald Rick]

Yet the replacement buses are running to St Albans City, not terminating at St Albans Abbey.

It will be quicker to walk...

 

[The Planner]

Its not unsignalled at the Watford end and ive no doubt NR would.love you to tell them of a way doing it in half the time!

 

[Taunton]

I've no doubt NR would.love you to tell them of a way doing it in half the time!

Half the time ? I'll come and tell them how to do it over a weekend. AND how to lock a train in while doing so, so that no service is lost at all.

 

[bengley]

Half the time ? I'll come and tell them how to do it over a weekend. AND how to lock a train in while doing so, so that no service is lost at all.

I'm intrigued. Could you please explain how? I'm genuinely interested.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I understand that the connection between the Abbey Line and the WCML is currently signalled and that the ground frame allows access/exit from the yard on that side from the Abbey line connection

The single-leaf junction on to the up slow is signalled I think, but the link through the yard on to the branch is a ground frame with a stop board. Or at least that's what it looks like from the train window

London Midland's website says the junction is manually operated.

I see the RRB gives a better frequency than the train does!

 

[Class 170101]

I see the RRB gives a better frequency than the train does!

Unless you are being sarcastic the bus is hourly and the train is every 45 to 60 minutes.

 

[DelayRepay]

Unless you are being sarcastic the bus is hourly and the train is every 45 to 60 minutes.

Incorrect: The bus is every 30 minutes between 06:23 and 19:23 (departing Watford) on Monday - Fridays. It's hourly after 19:23 and on Sundays. The timetable can be found here. Worth giving credit to London Midland (or at least their Guard) where it's due - last time I used the line not long ago, the guard was warning passengers about the closure while checking tickets and handing out leaflets and bus timetables to anyone who did not know.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Half the time ? I'll come and tell them how to do it over a weekend. AND how to lock a train in while doing so, so that no service is lost at all.

From a layman's perspective, it does seem odd that the service has to be completely stopped in order to replace a set of points which, from the description, appears to be beyond the point that trains would travel to in normal usage. If anyone can explain this, it'd be appreciated.

 

[carriageline]

It could possibly have something to do with the possession limits, and lack of protecting signals due to 'one train working' (so a train could drive right up to the DETS which is a no no) and plus the inability to take a T3 without blocking points, but I don't really know the ins and outs of the branch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Class 170101]

Incorrect: The bus is every 30 minutes between 06:23 and 19:23 (departing Watford) on Monday - Fridays. It's hourly after 19:23 and on Sundays. The timetable can be found here. Worth giving credit to London Midland (or at least their Guard) where it's due - last time I used the line not long ago, the guard was warning passengers about the closure while checking tickets and handing out leaflets and bus timetables to anyone who did not know.

Looks like some buses haven't made electronic systems then!
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...14/12/16/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[The Planner]

Its not replacing the points, the junction is moving slightly further south than where it is now if I recall. Will need to double check the plans.

 

[causton]

Yes, noticed that tonight as the poster timetable at stations shows a half hourly frequency with one fast and one slow bus, but RTT/NRE etc show 1 an hour!