Ways to improve the First Glasgow Network

[PaulMc7]

I got bored so drew some colourful and ambitious lines.

Red - 2 - Baillieston to Faifley via Shettleston, Partick & Clydebank.

Maroon - 75 - Castlemilk to Milton via Cathcart Rd & Possilpark.

Pink - Rutherglen to Drumchapel via GWR & Anniesland.

Magenta - Castlemilk to Drumchapel/Govan via Pollokshields & Cardonald.

Orange - Silverburn to Summerston via Thornliebank & Maryhill.

Yellow - Easterhouse to Castlemilk via Garthamlock. Riddrie & Spean St/Cathcart.

Navy Blue - Muirhead to Kenniahead via Stepp & Giffnock.

Baby Blue - Easterhouse to Silverburn via Glasgow Fort, Barlanark, Cantyne, Ibrox & Pollok.

Turquoise - Sandyhills to Braehead/Knightswood via Emirates Arena & Cardonald-Hillington/University of Glasgow.

Emerald Green - Westerhill to Newton via Cambuslang, Rutherglen & Springburn.

Lime Green - Eaglesham/Newton Mearns to Glasgow City Centre via Netherlee & Muirend.

Purple - Balornock/Barmulloch to Braehead via St Rollox, Kelvingrove, Partick & QUEH.

Brown - Easterhouse to Duntocher via Shettleston, Parkhead, GWR, Drumry.

White/Glasgow Trams - East Glasgow P&R/M8 <> Glasgow Business Park <> Edinburgh Rd <> Alexandra Parade <> Glasgow Royal Infirmary <> High St <> Trongate <> Argyll Street(Full Length) <> The SEC Hydro/Clyde Arc <> Braehead <> Renfrew <> Glasgow Airport <> Paisley Gauze Street <> West Paisley P&R/A737/M8.

Good ideas there. Would definitely be good to have less buses terminate in the city centre. Cross city routes could be the way forward. The one through the fort to Silverburn could definitely be marketed really well as a shopping day out

 

[PaulMc7]

Which areas could First market services around?

I don't feel they do enough with that type of thing.

I'd start with Braehead, Glasgow Fort, Silverburn, Strathclyde University, Royal Infirmary, QEUH.

Where else would you guys do?

 

[PaulMc7]

Anyone got any ideas for a route refresh First could do in Glasgow? I feel like we've had so many of the same routes since Simplicity and we could do with a major rework to give so many areas new options

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Yeah that's fair. The trains have really killed the bus market along Airdrie to Bargeddie in particular

The problem is routed through not just the trains but from the car boom starting in the 90s right through till now.

Despite the use of words like persuade or encourage, for those to leave a car at home, it simply will not work, if train car parks were charged to use you would find a few more using buses from such far out areas, however I certainly wouldn't want the alternative mode of transport to be on an E300 from Airdrie to Glasgow during the peak morning, even from Baillieston through Shettleston and Parkhead they usually have there seats Full.

at peak with deckers on it, running lanarkshire to Glasgow along Edinburgh Road on a limited stop basis is a far more attractive option, but only if the offer of such a route had the back up of government litterally "forcing" people out there cars.

Alternatively this is why I say that an affordable yet substantial tram service from a purpose built P&R @ the start of Edinburgh Rd would be beneficial but only if proper, meaningful and assertive restrictions were put on motorists to begin with even from the likes of Braehead and the Fort car parks, in turn the trams can be more far more reliable than trains are, albeit this is based on my experience using Edins trams a handful of times which are rather reliable and popular, even from the airport.

Back to topic, any proposed route changes would likely also have adverse effect on a few people who do use a service to further reaches like Giffnock to Auchinairn on a 57 for example, but of course peak journeys could always have extension or extra journeys, Lothian Buses do this to ease peak flows of passengers.

If FiG who is the biggest provider of public transport in Glasgow and its suburbs could purchase into longer vehicles but simply reduce frequency off peak yet still maintain capacity through the use of said larger vehicles there is a formula for savings right there, personally the 75 and 2 in particular run every 8 minute but could easily be every 10 or 12 minutes with either an E400 11.5m on them or follow suit with Edinburgh and get into a slightly shorter 12.8m 400XLB with 2 door ops, it would allow perhaps only 2 buses off the road at peak times and of course that still creates a saving.

The 6 for example Clydebank to East Kilbride? I doubt that's a popular journey, the 6 could terminate at the top of of the city centre just off Sauchiehall street as the 18 does, of course a substantial public enquiry would soon find out just how many would need a further journey, at present the 6/6A combine to make a bus technically every 5-8 minutes along GWR, Its simply unsessasary.

 

[PaulMc7]

Yeah even at normal times the 2 was 1 hr 10 mins into the city centre and that's if it was on time which was also very rare. Yeah the Edinburgh tram system has been great since it got up and running. It was getting it up and running that was the major problem.

Yeah we really could do with longer vehicles. It would definitely make it a safe decision to cut some services during off peak times. Yeah the 6 is always late because of how long the route is. It should have been split into 2 services like the way the 20 was. 2 every 15min services could easily work on it given there were longer buses available for it. There's plenty of services they could bring in longer buses for that would even see the need for deckers cut. Minus school times and peak times deckers on most services aren't anywhere near full

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Yeah even at normal times the 2 was 1 hr 10 mins into the city centre and that's if it was on time which was also very rare. Yeah the Edinburgh tram system has been great since it got up and running. It was getting it up and running that was the major problem.

Yeah we really could do with longer vehicles. It would definitely make it a safe decision to cut some services during off peak times. Yeah the 6 is always late because of how long the route is. It should have been split into 2 services like the way the 20 was. 2 every 15min services could easily work on it given there were longer buses available for it. There's plenty of services they could bring in longer buses for that would even see the need for deckers cut. Minus school times and peak times deckers on most services aren't anywhere near full

Of course there still has to be a balance on frequincy, if it's not frequint enough many won't want to use a bus if it was going from every 8 minutes to every 15, that's is a little extreme.

The biggest thing regarding the 2 route at the Clydebank end especially is the fact that even with the 6, 1, 1b and of course the 2 which all go along Barns Street the singles on the 2 is still quite busy once they reach scotstoun, and that's before there even at Partick where the 77 is every 10 minutes as well to the city centre, I cant really understand any of the dumbartonshire services(1, 1b, 1e etc) using barns streets, they would certainly be made alittle quicker and more reliable if they just served Chalmers St then directly back to Glasgow Rd, in doing this the 1E should be touted as an xpress service into Antonine Park momenterily.. offering that small housing estate a direct bus service to town which they haven't had for as long as I can remember, the 1/1A and 1E could also be renumbereds as express limited-stop services, the dumbarton end is the only real place where they would have to make more stops, once at clydebank for example the aforementioned 2 and 6 would still be able to cope fine...funnily enough, many weegies on the clydebank/scotstoun end still regard all the 1s as the fast bus to the city centre, despite them only being a fraction quicker, By the the time you may have waited on a late 1 bus the 2 might have came and gone and have you on your way, I sometimes do not understand the 1 dimensional attitude bus users have..

 

[PaulMc7]

Of course there still has to be a balance on frequincy, if it's not frequint enough many won't want to use a bus if it was going from every 8 minutes to every 15, that's is a little extreme.

The biggest thing regarding the 2 route at the Clydebank end especially is the fact that even with the 6, 1, 1b and of course the 2 which all go along Barns Street the singles on the 2 is still quite busy once they reach scotstoun, and that's before there even at Partick where the 77 is every 10 minutes as well to the city centre, I cant really understand any of the dumbartonshire services(1, 1b, 1e etc) using barns streets, they would certainly be made alittle quicker and more reliable if they just served Chalmers St then directly back to Glasgow Rd, in doing this the 1E should be touted as an xpress service into Antonine Park momenterily.. offering that small housing estate a direct bus service to town which they haven't had for as long as I can remember, the 1/1A and 1E could also be renumbereds as express limited-stop services, the dumbarton end is the only real place where they would have to make more stops, once at clydebank for example the aforementioned 2 and 6 would still be able to cope fine...funnily enough, many weegies on the clydebank/scotstoun end still regard all the 1s as the fast bus to the city centre, despite them only being a fraction quicker, By the the time you may have waited on a late 1 bus the 2 might have came and gone and have you on your way, I sometimes do not understand the 1 dimensional attitude bus users have..

Yeah whitecrook as an area is overloaded with buses same as Yoker. They could even drop the 2 frequency and replace it with a 1F etc. Could even cut the 81 and have an express bus cover that. Frequency to Mountblow halved with the introduction of the 1D and cuts to the 6. Yeah the 1s should just go Glasgow Road and even have the M11 go through barns st too. 42A was the last Antonine Park bus from the city centre but the route was very long as it went through the likes of Radnor Park, Great Western Retail Park and Garscadden too. Depending on which part of the city centre I'm going to I swap between the 1s 2 and 6. The 2 and 6 aren't overly slow during off peak

 

[CM]

Yeah whitecrook as an area is overloaded with buses same as Yoker. They could even drop the 2 frequency and replace it with a 1F etc. Could even cut the 81 and have an express bus cover that. Frequency to Mountblow halved with the introduction of the 1D and cuts to the 6. Yeah the 1s should just go Glasgow Road and even have the M11 go through barns st too. 42A was the last Antonine Park bus from the city centre but the route was very long as it went through the likes of Radnor Park, Great Western Retail Park and Garscadden too. Depending on which part of the city centre I'm going to I swap between the 1s 2 and 6. The 2 and 6 aren't overly slow during off peak

These services all go via Barnes Street for one simple reason.....it's where the passengers are. Barnes Street doesn't have as many buses going along it as it used to as you previously also had DB Travel, PD Travel/Beta Buses, McKindless and John Morrow all travelling along it.

 

[PaulMc7]

These services all go via Barnes Street for one simple reason.....it's where the passengers are. Barnes Street doesn't have as many buses going along it as it used to as you previously also had DB Travel, PD Travel/Beta Buses, McKindless and John Morrow all travelling along it.

Yeah I remember John Morrow and Mckindless well. Just think it would be a handy switch to make given the fact there's still 20 odd buses during the day through there and they're usually on time at Clydebank yet very late at Scotstoun

 

[Gingerbus1991]

These services all go via Barnes Street for one simple reason.....it's where the passengers are. Barnes Street doesn't have as many buses going along it as it used to as you previously also had DB Travel, PD Travel/Beta Buses, McKindless and John Morrow all travelling along it.

Which brings me on to the issue with that statement, if a passenger doesn't get on the 2 at Barns Street then theyll get on the 1 or 6, first aren't depriving themselves of a Fare if its been taken by another of there services, a 2 every 8-12 minutes supplemented by the 6, if people want to use the 1s they should then have to walk to Glasgow road..

Another reason I have such a hatred toward deregulation, much of the larger companies Re bad enough but the likes of all the small cronie companies that ran about Glasgow didn't matters, its certainly helped to destroy people's faith in public transport, Avon Dale are a case in point, awful buses on the road with driver that have a disregard for safety, the likes of canavans out Cumbernauld way and of course JMB and stuarts out Lanarkshire as well are prime example of companies that don't do public transport justice.

 

[St Rollox]

High bus fares, forget it.

 

[PaulMc7]

High bus fares, forget it.

Yeah I think they could be brought down a bit although looking more into the changes of prices it's actually been reasonable over the last few. Even in the early 10s an adult all day was still around £4. It was the mid 00s to beginning of the 10s that had the biggest price jumps like everything else in the country

 

[Gingerbus1991]

High bus fares, forget it.

That too, the day tickets are up to 4.60 now, before you know it we'll be talking £4.70/80....£5.00..

I understand that profit creates an ability to improve on things, buy new buses improve on infrastructure etc, but why not sacrifice some of that to maintain reasonable fares, maybe just then would it help retain passengers...

 

[St Rollox]

It's downhill all the way since the rightwingers (do they use buses?) privatised public transport.
You can now live within a couple of miles of city centre and forget it with buses after 6pm.

 

[PaulMc7]

The problem now is that we are at a stage where Glasgow city council and the others nearby are skint so for things to improve it will probably need to be kept privatised. People always use the Lothian example but they have plenty of problems as it is and still cut low usage services leaving some areas without buses

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Yeah I think they could be brought down a bit although looking more into the changes of prices it's actually been reasonable over the last few. Even in the early 10s an adult all day was still around £4. It was the mid 00s to beginning of the 10s that had the biggest price jumps like everything else in the country

Personally any fares within the city reaches Easterhouse to Clydebank for example should have there £2.50 fares removed and an exact fare system in place, it makes it far more attractive and simple to understand if they just kept if attractively low and simple.. £4 for a day ticket is bang on the money... £6 for a network ticket sounds about right... However with the removal of reasonable returns from the outer spt zones leaves abit of a bad taste in the mouth.

Should a day return from say Airdrie not be like £4? I understand single fares are only increasing through reduced local authority reimbursement for consession cards, but why should that effect reasonable return cash fares, if its a return you want of course?

 

[St Rollox]

Then there's the bizarre set up in places like Partick or the West End in general where's it's nigh on impossible to park a car yet the area has buses and trains/subway coming out it's ears.
Do the car owners in the West End all work outside the city centre that makes a car essential?

 

[Gingerbus1991]

The problem now is that we are at a stage where Glasgow city council and the others nearby are skint so for things to improve it will probably need to be kept privatised. People always use the Lothian example but they have plenty of problems as it is and still cut low usage services leaving some areas without buses

Why are people impressed with lothian though? Or at least that seems the impression anyways from some.

Studying the structure of there network, a busy city like Glasgow with a substantial lead in population over Edinburgh sounds alittle skewed when First cannot seemingly keep pace with passengers and what they not only would like but what they should get.

First don't have the level of clear intention to improve on much where it seems to concern there customers that Lothian do, even if its only on the surface that lothian appears more professional First consistently are view in a light that has been dim for years in glasgow, nothing has changed in years, It certainly never feels that the bright colours on a bus makes up for that..

 

[CM]

Which brings me on to the issue with that statement, if a passenger doesn't get on the 2 at Barns Street then theyll get on the 1 or 6, first aren't depriving themselves of a Fare if its been taken by another of there services, a 2 every 8-12 minutes supplemented by the 6, if people want to use the 1s they should then have to walk to Glasgow road..

Another reason I have such a hatred toward deregulation, much of the larger companies Re bad enough but the likes of all the small cronie companies that ran about Glasgow didn't matters, its certainly helped to destroy people's faith in public transport, Avon Dale are a case in point, awful buses on the road with driver that have a disregard for safety, the likes of canavans out Cumbernauld way and of course JMB and stuarts out Lanarkshire as well are prime example of companies that don't do public transport justice.

If the 1 series of routes were re-routed via Glasgow Road then people who would normally get them on Barnes Street would just switch to the 2 and 6 and the 1s would pick up fresh air on Glasgow Road.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Then there's the bizarre set up in places like Partick or the West End in general where's it's nigh on impossible to park a car yet the area has buses and trains/subway coming out it's ears.
Do the car owners in the West End all work outside the city centre that makes a car essential?

When you'll have heard before that people are "car-centric", if you had a substantial salary, working in the city with a fancy office would you want to take a bus or drive the BMW to work.

Of course you'd want to drive the fancy car where ever it takes you to, the City, countryside or the motorway..

It does not come down to anything other than people needing "forced" out of a car if thats what it eventually came too.

They can congestion charge but many will still be able to afford it, the only way to stop commuters driving into the city is simply to say the bad word "NO".

 

[PaulMc7]

Why are people impressed with lothian though? Or at least that seems the impression anyways from some.

Studying the structure of there network, a busy city like Glasgow with a substantial lead in population over Edinburgh sounds alittle skewed when First cannot seemingly keep pace with passengers and what they not only would like but what they should get.

First don't have the level of clear intention to improve on much where it seems to concern there customers that Lothian do, even if its only on the surface that lothian appears more professional First consistently are view in a light that has been dim for years in glasgow, nothing has changed in years, It certainly never feels that the bright colours on a bus makes up for that..

The problem with First for me is that they don't consult customers and ask what they want enough. They really could do with a social media team that isn't based in Leeds either. I think that's probably part of the problem especially in an age that is so technology driven

 

[Gingerbus1991]

If the 1 series of routes were re-routed via Glasgow Road then people who would normally get them on Barnes Street would just switch to the 2 and 6 and the 1s would pick up fresh air on Glasgow Road.

The 1/1A/1E wouldn't exactly pickup fresh air...

But having them marketed if such a route change took place for them to be more reliable and quicker from Helensburgh, Balloch and dumbarton for the passengers out there isn't a worth while move?

Personally I do think there is a truth in saying "Use it or Lose it", but the 1/1A/1E would still be used and might even be more attractive if it has a quicker route and upgraded more Comfortable buses for such a journey.

Keep in the mind the train hasn't completely devoided buses of passengers from these outer areas, only took a %.

 

[PaulMc7]

https://uktransport.fandom.com/wiki/First_Glasgow

I found this. It's got a list of services after Simplicity and a list from before Simplicity. Interesting read tbh

 

[Gingerbus1991]

The problem with First for me is that they don't consult customers and ask what they want enough. They really could do with a social media team that isn't based in Leeds either. I think that's probably part of the problem especially in an age that is so technology driven

Of course, local knowledge and time of reply on FiGs twitter page is next to useless to say the absolute very least.

 

[PaulMc7]

The 1/1A/1E wouldn't exactly pickup fresh air...

But having them marketed if such a route change took place for them to be more reliable and quicker from Helensburgh, Balloch and dumbarton for the passengers out there isn't a worth while move?

Personally I do think there is a truth in saying "Use it or Lose it", but the 1/1A/1E would still be used and might even be more attractive if it has a quicker route and upgraded more Comfortable buses for such a journey.

Keep in the mind the train hasn't completely devoided buses of passengers from these outer areas, only took a %.

Could even keep the 1D going that way and take the Balloch/Helensburgh services onto Glasgow Road and then as I suggested earlier a 1F to replace some of the 2s and give a new express bus to the City Centre from Faifley and Hardgate

 

[PaulMc7]

Of course, local knowledge and time of reply on FiGs twitter page is next to useless to say the absolute very least.

I'm in need of work at the minute so if they ever changed their minds and hired a local team I'd be happy to do it lol

 

[Gingerbus1991]

https://uktransport.fandom.com/wiki/First_Glasgow

I found this. It's got a list of services after Simplicity and a list from before Simplicity. Interesting read tbh

Lol we would like to make things simpler

simpliCITY kick in = ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ...

 

[PaulMc7]

Tried to work out how to rework the Yoker/Whitecrook areas:

1/1A/1B-Glasgow Road or make 1B Dumbarton Asda to Helensburgh only
1D-Keep unchanged
1F-New service to Faifley from City Centre via Barns St with 1D- 20min frequency
2-Down to every 12 mins but same route
6-Down to every 15 mins with same route
M11-Same frequency but via Barns St

 

[PaulMc7]

Lol we would like to make things simpler

simpliCITY kick in = ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ...

I remember it kicking in well. Nobody knew where to get which service. You just looked for via a certain area and hoped it went to the street you needed. Again poor planning and not making routes and timetables available early enough for people to understand them. Producing booklets could have been expensive but it would have been so beneficial to customers at the time

 

[tbtc]

Back to topic, any proposed route changes would likely also have adverse effect on a few people who do use a service to further reaches like Giffnock to Auchinairn on a 57 for example, but of course peak journeys could always have extension or extra journeys, Lothian Buses do this to ease peak flows of passengers

One thing Lothian do well is contra-peak services... e.g. as well as the Straiton corridor having busy peak buses taking Penicuik commuters into the City Centre (and Western General etc) in the morning rush hour, equivalent expresses are running southbound taking Students etc to the research facilities at Bush... same with the X25 which takes passengers out of the city to Herriot Watt in the morning rush hour, the X12 which takes passengers out to Gyle etc in the morning rush hour (instead of just a simple network of expresses *into* the city centre in the morning).

But are there places around Glasgow where that kind of thing would work? Other than the long established extension of some rush hour services up to the University.

They could even drop the 2 frequency and replace it with a 1F etc. Could even cut the 81 and have an express bus cover that

How about terminating the 2 at Clydebank and running a frequent Clydebank - Kilbowie - Hardgate corridor, half the services running to Faifley (replacing the 2), half running the 81 loop (Beeches Road etc)?

Say every five minutes towards Hardogate, which means every ten to Faifley and every ten to Beeches Road... but each service extending half hourly into Glasgow via the "1" route, so providing a fifteen minute frequency from Glasgow up Kilbowie Road? So a frequent link to Clydebank retained, a faster bus for those wanting to travel all the way into Glasgow, a more reliable 2 from Clydebank through Partick etc.

• 62: Faifley - Kilbowie Road - Clydebank (every ten minutes, extending half hourly into Glasgow)
• 63: Beeches Road - Kilbowie Road - Clydebank (every ten minutes, extending half hourly into Glasgow)

Something like that?