The Planner
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Won't from December. Might come back for May 21.
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WCML stopping patterns and journey times
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RailAleFan
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Hopefully of relevant interest, our "TOCtables" show all distinct calling patterns by service origin as a key to the timetable e.g. VT from London Euston;
(selecting a calling pattern highlights all instances of that service in the timetable below)
(selecting a calling pattern highlights all instances of that service in the timetable below)
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
The first 9 Manchester-London departures are "1Rxx" trains.
There's another 9R23 which runs via Birmingham.
The 0701 1R18 took 1h59m today (from RTT).
There's another 9R23 which runs via Birmingham.
The 0701 1R18 took 1h59m today (from RTT).
that is included in the peak trains.
One slightly bizarre alteration that has stayed since the timetable ramped back up to 90%, and that's the previously 06.10 BHM-EUS (1R04 starts 05.45 ex WVH) which has retained a departure time of 06.07, resulting in early running approaching Hanslope Jn, causing a hasty reduction in speed down to a red signal while waiting for 1R03 to appear on the slow from Northampton and cross to the fast. All a bit silly, the original reason was I believe an extra stop inserted at Rugby in the initial lockdown timetable back in March.
The Planner
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Its planned to do that, 3½ pathing approaching Hanslope Jn to follow it so it will always turn up early. I would be surprised if it isn't back at 0610 from December. There will be a few idiosyncrasies like that due to the timescales of turning COVID related stuff around.
Merle Haggard
Established Member
Doesn't 1R04 stop at Milton Keynes? 1R03 is r/a Euston from Northampton.
Off memory, 1R03 passes MK at 0655 with 1R04 calling at 0658-59.
Yes, that's why it has to let 1R03 in front. It used to be fine when it departed New St at 06.10, but running 3 minutes earlier just gives the brakes a good cleaning.
In May 18/Dec 18 it was an 0658 departure arriving 0900, and then became 0701 from May 19 (corrected: originally mistyped as May 20).
Could've sworn this was the case when reading this thread earlier, took me a while to confirm that my memory wasn't making this up but found proof thanks to http://www.railwaydata.co.uk/timetables/ .
Merle Haggard
Established Member
Yes quite; but I inferred (evidently, wrongly) from your post that you thought 1R04 should be given precedence at Hanslope.
As an illustration of the complications of regulation, pre-Covid 1R03 is tight behind an LNw service from Northampton which starts at (I think) Coventry. When I've caught 1R03, the LNw service is often a few late; perhaps the result of being regulated further North to avoid delay to Avanti services...
The Planner
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Part of the "interesting" May 18 timetable where a Northern was put in front and screwed the fast path. It didnt go down well in Virgin land.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Presumably the former coincidenced with the switch to 390s? Not sure about the latter, I'd have thought Glasgow was Pendolinos by then.
September 2004 was the first "Pendolino" timetable. That's when (for example) Manchester went to 2tph.
Pretty sure only a small handful of Mk3 sets (if any) remained in service after Sept 2004.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Yeah, looks like Glasgow went 390 in 2004 and there were nine (?) Mk3 sets going into 2005.
At the start of 2004 there was no 390s to Glasgow, started with 1535 ex Glasgow with one 390 a day. Was ramped up over that year. The last class 87 set i seen at Glasgow was late 04. So Glasgow was the last to get 390s but first to lose them.
Im all for later services up from London but a late arrival into Glasgow offers no onward connections locally.
Western Sunset
Established Member
I seem to recall that the up "Royal Scot" started at Ayr for a short period.
Apart from all the night buses, taxis, walking, and getting a lift off a willing friend / relation etc.
There’s plenty of places around the country where the last long distance train arrives after the last local train has left, and plenty of people use them.
dk1
Veteran Member
Forming a peak service into Central from Ayr. Wasn't that long before privatisation in the BR Intercity era however?
Back in 1986 it was the 06:00 Glasgow Central - Ayr, forming the 07:40 Ayr - London Euston, 09:10 ex Glasgow Central. There were special instructions in place that related to the neutral section at the south end of Newton-on-Ayr station, in that it was feared that a loco hauled train calling at Newton-on-Ayr would be unable to gain sufficient momentum to get through the neutral section, and would end up gapped. So there was no Newton-on-Ayr stop scheduled on the 06:00 Glasgow Central - Ayr. If for any reason the loco hauled set was swapped to another diagram (e.g. 06:30 Glasgow - Ayr) then a "Not to Stop" order had to be issued for Newton-on-Ayr, and passengers directed to the following service.
It was nearly always an 86/2, but it did get an occasional 87 or a roarer (81 or 85).
The last daytime loco-hauled Euston - Glasgow service I travelled on was late December 2004, so that confirms route101's dates.
thenorthern
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4 hours and 8 min was indeed the fastest timetable time IIRC and it only had a single stop at Preston.
Prior to the WCML in the early 00s upgrade the GNER service via the ECML was only marginally slower and ran at a similar service frequency to the WCML services at the time.
Prior to the WCML in the early 00s upgrade the GNER service via the ECML was only marginally slower and ran at a similar service frequency to the WCML services at the time.
dk1
Veteran Member
Very interesting. Like hearing quirky regulations such as that. Thanks.
We used to use the GNER to London from Glasgow, must of been due to engineering works or price.
I always wonder if its feasible for Avanti to run this today, probably not. Often Ayrshire accents i hear on avanti Glasgow services.
No night buses in Glasgow at the moment. And was only Fri and Saturday night. Taxi would set me back £30.
I suspect the route is too full of Scotrail services today.
As I stated on another thread this will not happen due to the privatised set up with access rights, moderation of competition clauses etc.
Surely in the brave new post-privatisation world, anything is possible? Since HM Government is footing the bill (one way or another - so that means the taxpayer is paying) then it could happen in future.
thenorthern
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One thing to remember before 2007 what is now the Birmingham/Manchester to Scotland via Carlisle services were run by Virgin Cross Country. Until 2004 as well the Manchester to Scotland services connected with the South West/South Coast services I know one service went from Reading-Birmingham-Stoke-Manchester-Preston-Edinburgh-Aberdeen. The Birmingham to Scotland via Warrington trains connected with trains that ran to the South/South West until 2007.
Until 2003 when the Voyagers were introduced it was common for the trains that ran via Manchester to do an engine change at Preston as at the time the Manchester to Preston line wasn't electrified. The engine change would take around 10 mins.
Until 2003 when the Voyagers were introduced it was common for the trains that ran via Manchester to do an engine change at Preston as at the time the Manchester to Preston line wasn't electrified. The engine change would take around 10 mins.
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