Wellglade Group

[SSmith2009]

Oh I remember it well, the current management seem to be really turning it around.

Same around the Leicester area, arriva have improved from where they were a few years ago, better priority measures in place for buses is all that's needed now

 

[tram21]

Royal Derby Hospital - Uni of Nottingham service. Run by Arriva under the hopperbus brand.

Thought you might mean this. It is a public service, the University of Nottingham specifically states it.

Can visitors use the hopper buses?

Yes, visitors, conference delegates and members of the public can use the hopper bus. Simply mention to the driver that you are a visitor.

 

[Trainman40083]

this is why I’m thankful to be on Arriva Derbys network, other than the odd breakdown the services is top tier, just wish buses ran a little later on a Friday/Sat.

Now, a while ago, I wondered if all bus operators were just the name. High Peak and Notts and Derby certainly delivered what they said they would deliver. So, I look closer into Arriva Derby, and would have to agree, yes, they deliver.

Now, a while ago, I wondered if all bus operators were just the name. High Peak and Notts and Derby certainly delivered what they said they would deliver. So, I look closer into Arriva Derby, and would have to agree, yes, they deliver.

Sorry, just the same (not name)

I largely agree with that. There was a time when Arriva Derby seemed to be a basket case and I looked enviously at TrentBarton’s operation. Now though, Arriva has upped its game - sure there are sometimes delays (due traffic etc.) and some services are chronically overloaded (2A peak times) but otherwise in the context of the services I use Arriva seems to be way more reliable than TB.

Its a shame and I don’t understand why the unreliability at TB has been allowed to continue and not be addressed. It means that now where I can I avoid TB and use the train instead (with a railcard train can compete on price on some trips too, and it will be even more competitive when the bus far price cap is raised).

In some ways, I wonder if, in time, you could have a fast service to Chellaston that maybe used Raynesway down towards the A50, then Snellsmore Lane ?? to Chellaston.

 

[zkyx02]

Thought you might mean this. It is a public service, the University of Nottingham specifically states it.

I was always under the impression that uni ID was needed to use the service! Very helpful.

In some ways, I wonder if, in time, you could have a fast service to Chellaston that maybe used Raynesway down towards the A50, then Snellsmore Lane ?? to Chellaston.

Realistically it wouldn’t work, Raynesway gets stupidly busy & in fairness Osmaston Road & Allenton are where buses pick most people up from, I do think a Derby - Allenton service would work.

 

[Davidsb3]

The issue with Reliablity is mainly down to lack of spare parts which have been a massive issue post covid. Some parts that you could get in a matter of hours or days now take weeks to turn up.
And for the last few weeks on some occasions out of Derby we were running a full service with one or even two spare buses standing around to fill the gaps.
But yes the age of some the fleet does not help matters but that will take time to change plus with a more volvos becoming spares this should help across the network.
Recently alot of the delays and missed services not down to breakdowns etc have been due to the sheer amount of traffic on the roads recently and the amount of Temp lights (Kilburn toll bar as of recent has been a major one for the Comet 6.4/6X.) for example even in the middle of the day one comet struggled and got back a mere 1hr 13mins late all because of road works and sheer amount of traffic.
hopefulley 836 and 314 will be back soon to help the situation.

 

[Trainman40083]

The issue with Reliablity is mainly down to lack of spare parts which have been a massive issue post covid. Some parts that you could get in a matter of hours or days now take weeks to turn up.
And for the last few weeks on some occasions out of Derby we were running a full service with one or even two spare buses standing around to fill the gaps.
But yes the age of some the fleet does not help matters but that will take time to change plus with a more volvos becoming spares this should help across the network.
Recently alot of the delays and missed services not down to breakdowns etc have been due to the sheer amount of traffic on the roads recently and the amount of Temp lights (Kilburn toll bar as of recent has been a major one for the Comet 6.4/6X.) for example even in the middle of the day one comet struggled and got back a mere 1hr 13mins late all because of road works and sheer amount of traffic.
hopefulley 836 and 314 will be back soon to help the situation.

Maybe someone in the bus supply chain ought to consider holding some actual stock of parts then. Failing that, companies will be blaming COVID for ever.

 

[Mr TrainGuy]

Maybe someone in the bus supply chain ought to consider holding some actual stock of parts then. Failing that, companies will be blaming COVID for ever.

It's almost as if money exists... Not like they can precisely predict which buses will break at which times and pre-order parts perfectly to meet that. Unless they want to spend thousands on parts, which most likely won't end up being used for ages, then they'll forget they have those parts available and keep having to re-order loads of extra ones just to make sure. Also not useful for the manufacturer of said parts to have to produce a load more than are actually required.

 

[Robertj21a]

Maybe someone in the bus supply chain ought to consider holding some actual stock of parts then. Failing that, companies will be blaming COVID for ever.

Perhaps someone can explain why Wellglade is/has been so badly affected when most other companies recovered a while back. It's not as if Wellglade has a lot of 'odd' or unusual vehicles, in fact they're more standardised than many others. Strange.

 

[Trainman40083]

It's almost as if money exists... Not like they can precisely predict which buses will break at which times and pre-order parts perfectly to meet that. Unless they want to spend thousands on parts, which most likely won't end up being used for ages, then they'll forget they have those parts available and keep having to re-order loads of extra ones just to make sure. Also not useful for the manufacturer of said parts to have to produce a load more than are actually required.

So, there is no company is that supply chain that does hold a stock of bus parts for the industry? No doubt, if there is, there will be challenging Key Performance Indicators. You make it sound like all parts are made to order. All on a lengthy lead time. Yes, a stock of parts does have a cost. So does having far more spare buses to deliver an advertised service. Failure to deliver that service has an even bigger cost. The customers walk away, they use other modes, other operators. That reduces revenue even more. What does concern me, is that the industry had the opportunity to win more customers, through the £2 fare; soon £3 fare, maybe even a return to normal fares in 2026. If nothing changes in terms of reliability, there will be a problem.

 

[TR673]

It's almost as if money exists... Not like they can precisely predict which buses will break at which times and pre-order parts perfectly to meet that. Unless they want to spend thousands on parts, which most likely won't end up being used for ages, then they'll forget they have those parts available and keep having to re-order loads of extra ones just to make sure. Also not useful for the manufacturer of said parts to have to produce a load more than are actually required.

The issue is mainly the companies which provide spare parts in the first place; manufacturers and aftermarket parts suppliers struggling to get spares imported and distributed in a timely manner. Warehouses that should be full of spare parts for common types of bus are empty. And with a limited supply, the price of what few parts are available goes up.

If anything the mass popularity of models like the Enviro 200 MMC make the problem worse, as Stagecoach, First and a hundred other companies are probably competing over a limited number of spare parts for the same type of vehicle. Crash damaged or broken down MMCs are mostly still too new (from a financial/investment point of view) to strip for spare parts to keep other vehicles going, so they sit around waiting to be repaired.

Meanwhile, there's a reverse logic for operators with an older fleet. While operators with the latest ADLs and similar are sat waiting for overdue orders of spares to come from China or wherever, parts for older buses like early 00s Solos, L94UBs, early Omnidekkas etc can be sourced from the Barnsley breakers. Anything of 'withdrawal age' would be far quicker to get parts for!

 

[busspotter1]

I largely agree with that. There was a time when Arriva Derby seemed to be a basket case and I looked enviously at TrentBarton’s operation. Now though, Arriva has upped its game - sure there are sometimes delays (due traffic etc.) and some services are chronically overloaded (2A peak times) but otherwise in the context of the services I use Arriva seems to be way more reliable than TB.

Its a shame and I don’t understand why the unreliability at TB has been allowed to continue and not be addressed. It means that now where I can I avoid TB and use the train instead (with a railcard train can compete on price on some trips too, and it will be even more competitive when the bus far price cap is raised).

Arriva is still terrible during rush hour - I often see 2-3 buses right behind each other on the 1/1A/1B routes! Same can be said for the 2 routes and sometimes 38.
Considering that like 95% of fare-paying passengers travel during this time, this is terrible!

 

[Trainman40083]

The issue is mainly the companies which provide spare parts in the first place; manufacturers and aftermarket parts suppliers struggling to get spares imported and distributed in a timely manner. Warehouses that should be full of spare parts for common types of bus are empty. And with a limited supply, the price of what few parts are available goes up.

If anything the mass popularity of models like the Enviro 200 MMC make the problem worse, as Stagecoach, First and a hundred other companies are probably competing over a limited number of spare parts for the same type of vehicle. Crash damaged or broken down MMCs are mostly still too new (from a financial/investment point of view) to strip for spare parts to keep other vehicles going, so they sit around waiting to be repaired.

Meanwhile, there's a reverse logic for operators with an older fleet. While operators with the latest ADLs and similar are sat waiting for overdue orders of spares to come from China or wherever, parts for older buses like early 00s Solos, L94UBs, early Omnidekkas etc can be sourced from the Barnsley breakers. Anything of 'withdrawal age' would be far quicker to get parts for!

The first paragraph suggests that manufacturers have a key problem. If companies buy new buses from them, with inadequate spares support, will they continue purchasing them. You would have thought those manufacturers would step up, if they wanted future business. With limited supply, surely a company holding key stock in a timely manner, means they are held to ransom when there are shortages. Lead time, safety stock, capacity considerations, and suppliers adhering to terms of agreed contracts....unless of course it is all placed "spot" as and when the need arises.. The second paragraph possibly indicates why so many, secondary operators are opting for the Volvo/MCV. But is spares provision any better. The third paragraph certainly highlights why 16 year old buses are going through overhaul.. Easier to get parts, even reconditioned ones. Maybe even Volvo and Scania are more robust. Overall, it raises the question "Is ADL is right supplier?". Maybe recent order commitments and indeed future ones in 2025 will show. You can imagine a conversation with ADL "Well if you had had a reliable supply of parts , we would have given you more orders. It will be interesting to see how Yutong deliver. Given how many vehicles they supply worldwide, every year, they must have a ready supply of parts

Perhaps someone can explain why Wellglade is/has been so badly affected when most other companies recovered a while back. It's not as if Wellglade has a lot of 'odd' or unusual vehicles, in fact they're more standardised than many others. Strange.

Usually the case that the companies that no longer have a problem, have put a meaningful and deliverable action plan into place. Maybe their margins are better. Maybe they have more preventative maintenance in place. All, I can say, is I've never seen anything like it, and I worked in supply chain management, in a strategic role for over 40 years. I could see a situation where the money isn't there to put it right. Either way, when you have an unreliable delivery in a business (no matter what sector), customers drift away, which , over time, makes resolution of the problems a lot more difficult.

 

[38291018]

720 has changed colour on bustimes with the proof given below

Screenshot-20241202-152604-Facebook hosted at ImgBB

Image Screenshot-20241202-152604-Facebook hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

 

[m79900]

720 has changed colour on bustimes with the proof given below

Screenshot-20241202-152604-Facebook hosted at ImgBB

Image Screenshot-20241202-152604-Facebook hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Maybe they could rename it 'Burton Flyer' to differentiate from Arriva. The shape of the livery looks like a flyer livery.

 

[Trainman40083]

720 has changed colour on bustimes with the proof given below

Screenshot-20241202-152604-Facebook hosted at ImgBB

Image Screenshot-20241202-152604-Facebook hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

TBH, I thought the back was maroon.. It doesn't look it in this shot, that was posted

 

[trentbartonfan]

Maybe they could rename it 'Burton Flyer' to differentiate from Arriva. The shape of the livery looks like a flyer livery.

Interesting idea, would allow them to properly operate as two different services, aswell as limiting the competition. It does have the possibility of confusing passengers that are adverse to change.

 

[mesub]

As has been said, KB 9999 is out and about. Here's a photo I got on Friday.

I did speak with one of the drivers and they said apparently the sprint solos would be replaced with the E9Ls, and then other routes would get longer variants. He mentioned skylink was meant to get hydrogen buses as well...

Of course this is just word of mouth so I can't say it's fact. Would hydrogen work well for such a high mileage route? Wouldn't fueling need to be incorporated into the running board? Are there any hydrogen refueling facilities in the East Midlands??

 

[bringiton]

I did speak with one of the drivers and they said apparently the sprint solos would be replaced with the E9Ls, and then other routes would get longer variants.

I'd assume K5 would also get E9L's too. It was quite tight going through the estates on Saturday so I doubt they would want longer versions on it. One things for certain the E9's arent going to be for K9 since it ran out of battery half way through the day.

Would hydrogen work well for such a high mileage route?

Trent want to use hydrogen for routes like the sixes where EV's are unreasonable so it could probably work... Obviously the only way they would know is if they got a demo and ran it for a few days to see how well it actually works. However like you say they would need access to refueling facilities..

Are there any hydrogen refueling facilities in the East Midlands??

Notts and derby used toyota (who loaned the bus to them anyway) to refuel its hydrogren demo, I doubt its suited to long term refueling for busses though.

 

[Trainman40083]

I'd assume K5 would also get E9L's too. It was quite tight going through the estates on Saturday so I doubt they would want longer versions on it. One things for certain the E9's arent going to be for K9 since it ran out of battery half way through the day.

Trent want to use hydrogen for routes like the sixes where EV's are unreasonable so it could probably work... Obviously the only way they would know is if they got a demo and ran it for a few days to see how well it actually works. However like you say they would need access to refueling facilities..

Notts and derby used toyota (who loaned the bus to them anyway) to refuel its hydrogren demo, I doubt its suited to long term refueling for busses though.

The original plan was for hydrogen buses for the Skylink services and Sixes. If I recall the proposal, it seemed to include hydrogen production facilities. At the time I did wonder if it would include a facility for similar fuelling of Derby City Council vehicles. The issue with hydrogen, is the lack of hydrogen production. Production will increase when demand increases, but user would rightly want security of supply before they commit to the technology. I think much hydrogen is supplied from European mainland. Okay, I understand hydrogen production facilities are being built on Humberside/Teeside.. A classic chicken and egg scenario. People rightly ask why not electric buses. Fine for daily diagrams of say up to 200/250 miles, but some Wellglade diagrams are over 500 miles.

 

[Robertj21a]

The original plan was for hydrogen buses for the Skylink services and Sixes. If I recall the proposal, it seemed to include hydrogen production facilities. At the time I did wonder if it would include a facility for similar fuelling of Derby City Council vehicles. The issue with hydrogen, is the lack of hydrogen production. Production will increase when demand increases, but user would rightly want security of supply before they commit to the technology. I think much hydrogen is supplied from European mainland. Okay, I understand hydrogen production facilities are being built on Humberside/Teeside.. A classic chicken and egg scenario. People rightly ask why not electric buses. Fine for daily diagrams of say up to 200/250 miles, but some Wellglade diagrams are over 500 miles.

With batteries now improving in leaps and bounds I would guess that something like a Yutong could do 300+ miles easily. Only a limited number of diagrams will be anywhere near 500 so only a few, early evening (?), recharges would need to be built in.

 

[Trainman40083]

With batteries now improving in leaps and bounds I would guess that something like a Yutong could do 300+ miles easily. Only a limited number of diagrams will be anywhere near 500 so only a few, early evening (?), recharges would need to be built in.

But you might need extra buses to achieve that.

 

[bringiton]

703s tracking back at Derby currently on little six

 

[liamf656]

But you might need extra buses to achieve that.

Or clever diagramming

 

[Davidsb3]

703s tracking back at Derby currently on little six

That is very true swapped out with 735 and we are hoping to keep it for a few days before it heads for repaint

 

[bringiton]

That is very true swapped out with 735 and we are hoping to keep it for a few days before it heads for repaint

Nice to have the ex villagers all make their way back to derby.

 

[zkyx02]

That is very true swapped out with 735 and we are hoping to keep it for a few days before it heads for repaint

Where has 735 gone? Noticed it had the standard Derby treatment (mismatched panels & smashed front corners)

 

[Davidsb3]

Where has 735 gone? Noticed it had the standard Derby treatment (mismatched panels & smashed front corners)

A simple sign it's been on sixes lol.

But on serious note it just came back to derby for some work and is now back out on Red arrows.

 

[Trainman40083]

Where has 735 gone? Noticed it had the standard Derby treatment (mismatched panels & smashed front corners)

I doubt Brandon has caused them all (front corners)

 

[YX73OUB]

Yes that's right, the diversion / roadworks in Hucknall have now finished so 703 is free to be reunited with its friends at Derby before it is repainted.

 

[m79900]

Yes that's right, the diversion / roadworks in Hucknall have now finished so 703 is free to be reunited with its friends at Derby before it is repainted.

Mango?