Welshwashing: TfW announcements

[Starmill]

if English customers choose to board they must accept who the service is actually for

As a simple matter of contract, with Transport for Wales Rail Services, this isn't correct. Only TfW services which are entirely in Wales are under devolved control. Many TfW routes are entirely in England.

Obviously nobody is suggesting that it's incorrect or improper to use Welsh onboard, far from it. But it is wrong to suggest that "the service is actually for" Welsh customers, whatever that means. It is for people travelling in both England and Wales.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

As a simple matter of contract, with Transport for Wales Rail Services, this isn't correct. Only TfW services which are entirely in Wales are under devolved control. Many TfW routes are entirely in England.

Obviously nobody is suggesting that it's incorrect or improper to use Welsh onboard, far from it. But it is wrong to suggest that "the service is actually for" Welsh customers, whatever that means. It is for people travelling in both England and Wales.

I mean, by his ideology, Welsh and Scottish people, and foreign visitors or those who've moved to England, have less of a right to travel on English trains than English nationals do, and such a suggestion would be very dodgy territory indeed.

 

[xtpe]

I know this will be an unpopular opinion amongst some but i do not think Welsh announcements are necessary at all. There is really absolutely no need for any Welsh announcements. It is ridiculous that the law requires them. Even more ridiculous is the fact that the law requires Welsh to come first when English is spoken by far more people.

Nobody in Wales who speaks Welsh does not also speak fluent English so there is nobody who would understand Welsh announcements but would not understand English announcements. So having two languages is pointless when you could just have one and shorten the announcements. Everyone that can understand the Welsh ones can understand the English ones.

At the very least they could get rid of all of the Welsh announcements while the train is England and play them while in Wales only.

The new announcements on the 197 230 231 398 756 MK4 trains are dreadful. The new announcements are incredibly slow. Very long gaps between words. Even longer gaps between sentences. They just drag them out for as long as possible. It is utterly dreadful the way it has been set up.

Instead of introducing Elin Llwyd they should have kept Ruth Mitchell for the English language announcements but still introduced Eryl Jones for the Welsh language announcements. Surely having a Welsh language voice with a Welsh accent (Eryl Jones) and having an English language voice with an English accent (Ruth Mitchell) would be good enough and be reflective of the fact that their trains serve large parts of England too. I think this would have been a much better option compared to introducing Elin Llwyd on to the trains.

TFW seem to have completely forgotten that a large amount of their network is in England and even some trains do not enter Wales at all. Everything is focused on Wales and making everything as Welsh as possible. It seems they are keen to ignore the fact that they serve England too.

The reason why they use a Welsh speaker for the English language annoucements is that English speakers struggle to pronounce Welsh place names correctly, the horrendous pronunciation of Welsh place names on the 175s springs to mind.

 

[CardiffKid]

Only TfW services which are entirely in Wales are under devolved control. Many TfW routes are entirely in England.

Are you sure that’s correct?
(Maybe it should be, but I don’t think it is)

 

[Starmill]

This is overstating the matter somewhat. The English language cannot be removed from Wales and I don’t think even the most ardent campaigner for the Welsh language believes that it can, whether they would like it to be or not.

Indeed. And it has already been stated multiple times that both Welsh and English have official status in Wales, so the idea that English is going to be removed is a bit odd!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The only thing I would like to see is the phasing out of Anglicised Welsh names on signs - do we need Wrexham / Wrecsam for example? AS most English can cope with Aberystwyth should not Swansea become Abertawe for all?

Fine with that provided Wales packs in with "Caer", "Lerpwl", "Manceinon", "Llundain" etc too.

Though I challenge them to work out whether it's "Y Fali" or "Dyffryn"

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

AS most English can cope with Aberystwyth should not Swansea become Abertawe for all?

Why should it? I know about thirty people from Swansea - not an exaggeration - and not one of them would say that they come from Abertawe, even to other Welsh people. They all proudly declare themselves to be from Swansea.

No one calls the city that I live in Caerdydd either.

 

[43066]

TFW run services for the benefit of Welsh taxpayers including various connecting services in England not for the English, if English customers choose to board they must accept who the service is actually for, and the provision of an English translation is actually a generous concession. The eventual intention is to remove the English language from Welsh regions on a progressive basis as in the former Snowdonia and the elimination of foreign owned homes.
This is democracy being the policy of majority parties in the Senedd.

I haven’t ever visited Wales. I doubt I ever will if this is reflective of their mentality towards the English….

I also strongly suspect English Taxpayers subsidise public transport in Wales (amongst many other things) as much if not more than Welsh taxpayers do…

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I haven’t ever visited Wales. I doubt I ever will if this is reflective of their mentality towards the English….

I also strongly suspect English Taxpayers subsidise public transport in Wales…

In fairness, there doesn't seem to be the same resentment to England that you might find in Scotland, where a vast majority don't like being part of the U.K. (whereas many Welsh people - and the First Minister certainly) are happy to be part of the U.K. so long as England does not try to control them too much. However, the language is very much forced, and many of my friends here in Cardiff had no choice but learn it up to age 16 at school.

I do love the Welsh language and I’m very proud and lucky to be a student in Wales.

 

[Kilopylae]

I’m not sure why the TfW announcements have to say “we will be calling at the following principle stations”. The word principle is not needed. It is said whether the train stops at all stops or it doesn’t. Not every station can be principle if the calling patterns change

I've always wondered this. "Following principal stations..." - my partner and I have both always wondered about this; we assumed it was a Welsh thing.

 

[Starmill]

Are you sure that’s correct?
(Maybe it should be, but I don’t think it is)

Yes. Welsh Ministers provided "undertakings and positive obligations" to the Secretary of State for Transport under their original agreement to take on some executive functions in respect of Welsh railways. This effectively means that if there's a disagreement, the Secretary of State is still in control of cross-border and England-only services.

See the Wales & Borders Rail Franchise Agency Agreement 3: https://assets.publishing.service.g...le/737916/180531-ageny-agreement-number-3.pdf

Some executive powers weren't transferred to Welsh Ministers at all.

 

[43066]

In fairness, there doesn't seem to be the same resentment to England that you might find in Scotland, where a vast majority don't like being part of the U.K. (whereas many Welsh people - and the First Minister certainly) are happy to be part of the U.K. so long as England does not try to control them too much. However, the language is very much forced, and many of my friends here in Cardiff had no choice but learn it up to age 16 at school.

I do get that they don’t want the language to die out, which it almost certainly would if they didn’t forcibly promote it, because it has basically no use anywhere outside of Wales (and even a lot of native Welsh can’t speak, it is my understanding). It’s hard not to detect a certain anti English sentiment on occasion, though. I’m pleased to hear it’s not as pronounced as in Scotland!

 

[birchesgreen]

I haven’t ever visited Wales. I doubt I ever will if this is reflective of their mentality towards the English….

I also strongly suspect English Taxpayers subsidise public transport in Wales (amongst many other things) as much if not more than Welsh taxpayers do…

Its not so relax, why not go for a trip and find out for yourself. Easier for some to keep repeating the same tired old cliches though.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

TFW run services for the benefit of Welsh taxpayers including various connecting services in England not for the English, if English customers choose to board they must accept who the service is actually for, and the provision of an English translation is actually a generous concession. The eventual intention is to remove the English language from Welsh regions on a progressive basis as in the former Snowdonia and the elimination of foreign owned homes.
This is democracy being the policy of majority parties in the Senedd.

Not really.
The TfW franchise/direct award/operational area is Wales & Borders (it says that on the trains).
The accounting is done in Cardiff, and within WG control, but it is a cross-border operation with equal responsibilities to taxpayers and politicians on both sides of Clawdd Offa.
The Marches route is hardly "various connecting services", and every Cardiff-Wrexham-Holyhead service crosses the border 4 times.
And Network Rail is not devolved, so the underlying infrastructure is (bar the CVL routes) a UK government responsibility, with strong input from the WG in its TfW-operational area.
Likewise, GWR, Avanti and XC are UK TOCs with responsibilities on both sides of the border.
The bulk of TfW funding comes from Westminster to Cardiff in various tranches, very little of it directly from the Welsh taxpayers.

 

[sheff1]

TFW run services for the benefit of Welsh taxpayers including various connecting services in England not for the English, if English customers choose to board they must accept who the service is actually for, and the provision of an English translation is actually a generous concession.

Hilarious to think Crewe - Chester, Birmingham - Shrewsbury etc iare thought to be run for the sole benefit of Welsh taxpayers. Even if they were, the vast majority of Welsh taxpayers do not speak or understand Welsh.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Even if they were, the vast majority of Welsh taxpayers do not speak or understand Welsh.

And 99% of those that do understand English anyway, not that I'm saying Welsh shouldn't be included for that reason, but for that reason I disagree with the legislation demanding Welsh goes first.