West Highland why only 156's?

[Failed Unit]

8x pacers were proposed for Scotland before the 158s arrived. They were to be used on the whiffleet, anniesland and motherwell - Cumbernauld route. In terms of loading the later 2 certainly would have been ok for a pacer.

The reasons it did not happen I understand were.
Training. Drivers, gaurds and fitters etc
Route clearance again takes time.
It was thought these cost were not worth it for a small fleet. I don't know why that didn't apply in the southwest. May be 143s did a lot of groundwork.

I must admit the 158s are the wrong unit BUT at least the use them. At the time EMTs overcrowding was at it's worse while the got to grips with the fleets poor condition the Scotrail 158s from northern were doing nothing. One took a whole year to enter service. That was criminal to have a train doing nothing in Haymarket when the rest of the country stood!

 

[Bittern]

How were they proposed for the Anniesland route? The 158s were here long before the Anniesland extension -which was part of the Larkhall branch project - was even on the drawing boards, surely.

the fast shotts make good connections from glasgow central like east kilbride . Saving time rather than walking to queen st . A bonus too is the line is more interesting.

If you time it right on the Falkirk Mainline, you may pass Morayshire or another steam loco at Manuel, which is infinitely more interesting than anything the Shotts line has to offer.

 

[Failed Unit]

Anniesland's diagrams can be self contained and have low passenger numbers hence why. The route could be ran with 2 units. Yes the diagram interwork hence why you see 158s and 170s on the route but the don't need to. The main disadvantage if it had happened is you couldn't borrow the Anniesland unit to go somewhere else to cover problems.

I should also add no one forced Northern to give up the 158s the could have said no Scotrail it is pacers or nothing. It was mainly down to cash and pacers are cheaper to lease. Franchises are all about the bottom line so northern would rather take the cash than have better trains. CT did the same have it's own passengers unable to board a 153 and sublease a 158 to another operator.

 

[CarterUSM]

How were they proposed for the Anniesland route? The 158s were here long before the Anniesland extension -which was part of the Larkhall branch project - was even on the drawing boards, surely.



If you time it right on the Falkirk Mainline, you may pass Morayshire or another steam loco at Manuel, which is infinitely more interesting than anything the Shotts line has to offer.

How dare you! Catch the Addiewell express, and you will be more than entrertained with all the WAG's going visiting their partners at the 'nick' . Alas, not a fast service, but more time to enjoy their rapier like wit and subtle charm.......

 

[Bittern]

Anniesland's diagrams can be self contained and have low passenger numbers hence why. The route could be ran with 2 units. Yes the diagram interwork hence why you see 158s and 170s on the route but the don't need to. The main disadvantage if it had happened is you couldn't borrow the Anniesland unit to go somewhere else to cover problems.

Yes, but how were Pacers proposed for the Anniesland extension before the 158s were introduced, considering the Anniesland extension came many years after the 158s entered service?

 

[Failed Unit]

Yes, but how were Pacers proposed for the Anniesland extension before the 158s were introduced, considering the Anniesland extension came many years after the 158s entered service?

They were proposed to replace the existing trains so they could be used else where. Ie where the northern 8 currently run. It was a cascade to enable the kilmarnock increased frequency as well as the Shotts. Yes I know they use 156s but the 158s removed from Anniesland would free up 156s from say Edinburgh to dunblane (a diagram ran on that route until about 2 years ago) which would in turn go to Kilmarnock.

 

[Bittern]

8x pacers were proposed for Scotland before the 158s arrived. They were to be used on the whiffleet, anniesland and motherwell - Cumbernauld route. In terms of loading the later 2 certainly would have been ok for a pacer.

What I'm saying is they won't have been proposed for Anniesland as the DMU line to Anniesland hadn't been built until around 2005, buy which time the 158s were in service for a significant period of time.

 

[route:oxford]

Were some of the Pacers built by W Alexander in Scotland?

 

[Failed Unit]

What I'm saying is they won't have been proposed for Anniesland as the DMU line to Anniesland hadn't been built until around 2005, buy which time the 158s were in service for a significant period of time.

Yes they were The line was built I agree but the pacers were proposed to take over the route. In the event 8x 158s came north. But the Anniesland route is perfect for pacers. The requirement for extra units was around 2007/8. These were needed for new services. Pacers were offered first so it was investigated what existing lines could they be used on so the decent trains could be cascaded to where they were needed.

Re-reading to be totally clear.
Scotrail had 40x 158 as built the obtained another 8 in about 2008 from Northern. These 8 were the ones that could have been pacers and may have operated on shorter routes to relieve better units for expanded services.

 

[387star]

hmmm 40 is a lot of te premium 158s...

 

[MacCookie]

Yes they were The line was built I agree but the pacers were proposed to take over the route. In the event 8x 158s came north. But the Anniesland route is perfect for pacers. The requirement for extra units was around 2007/8. These were needed for new services. Pacers were offered first so it was investigated what existing lines could they be used on so the decent trains could be cascaded to where they were needed.

Re-reading to be totally clear.
Scotrail had 40x 158 as built the obtained another 8 in about 2008 from Northern. These 8 were the ones that could have been pacers and may have operated on shorter routes to relieve better units for expanded services.

To be slightly pedantic, ScotRail originally had 46 units (158701 to 158746), then six were given away in 2000. 158737/742/743/744 to Northern Spirit and 158745/746 to Wales & West. (http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/thread/600/page1/601)

Ewan

 

[90019]

They were proposed to replace the existing trains so they could be used else where. Ie where the northern 8 currently run.

There always seems to be some of them on the Edinburgh-Dunblane trains.

 

[Failed Unit]

There always seems to be some of them on the Edinburgh-Dunblane trains.

From what I hear the are the most unreliable units in Scotrails fleet. So they don't want them away from Haymarket too long just in case! It would be interesting to see how they compare to scotrail 158s

 

[route101]

From what I hear the are the most unreliable units in Scotrails fleet. So they don't want them away from Haymarket too long just in case! It would be interesting to see how they compare to scotrail 158s

They have quite shabby interiors dont they?

 

[Failed Unit]

They have quite shabby interiors dont they?

The have had new seat covers, I personally like them better than the non-refurbished Scotrail ones such as 158735.

My order of preferce for comfort on the Scotrail sets.

Refurbished such as 158710
Ex Stagecoach such as 158786
Ex Wessex such as 158871
Ex Central Trains such as 158767????
Ex Scotrail such as 158735

But really it is down to what seats you like best in a unit, I find Richmonds exceptionally uncomfortable. All units have had work on them to some degree. The ex-Stagecoach ones were in good condition anyway.

 

[MCR247]

I don't think 767 is ex Central trains

 

[route101]

The have had new seat covers, I personally like them better than the non-refurbished Scotrail ones such as 158735.

My order of preferce for comfort on the Scotrail sets.

Refurbished such as 158710
Ex Stagecoach such as 158786
Ex Wessex such as 158871
Ex Central Trains such as 158767????
Ex Scotrail such as 158735

But really it is down to what seats you like best in a unit, I find Richmonds exceptionally uncomfortable. All units have had work on them to some degree. The ex-Stagecoach ones were in good condition anyway.

I do find the new seats on the refurbished ones a bit too upright . 156S are way more comfortable.

 

[sprinterguy]

The have had new seat covers, I personally like them better than the non-refurbished Scotrail ones such as 158735.

My order of preferce for comfort on the Scotrail sets.

Refurbished such as 158710
Ex Stagecoach such as 158786
Ex Wessex such as 158871
Ex Central Trains such as 158767????
Ex Scotrail such as 158735

But really it is down to what seats you like best in a unit, I find Richmonds exceptionally uncomfortable. All units have had work on them to some degree. The ex-Stagecoach ones were in good condition anyway.

Wait a minute, how long has 158767 been with Scotrail? Perhaps I’m a bit behind the times but I’m pretty sure that that is/was a FGW unit. Scotrail has 867 for definite.

158767 was a Transpennine unit from new, and if IIRC did go to Central Trains for a while before heading to First Great Western.

 

[Failed Unit]

Wait a minute, how long has 158767 been with Scotrail? Perhaps I’m a bit behind the times but I’m pretty sure that that is/was a FGW unit. Scotrail has 867 for definite.

158767 was a Transpennine unit from new, and if IIRC did go to Central Trains for a while before heading to First Great Western.

My apologies, I did put the ? down as I wasn't sure on the number it is 158782 that is the ex-CT unit that is in Scotland - thanks scot-rail.co.uk for the info to let me correct this.

 

[sprinterguy]

My apologies, I did put the ? down as I wasn't sure on the number it is 158782 that is the ex-CT unit that is in Scotland - thanks scot-rail.co.uk for the info to let me correct this.

Ah fair enough. Yeah I think 158782 was a former Central Trains unit.

 

[MCR247]

Sorry, it was with them, but it didn't have a CT interior/refurb if it was ex fTPE

 

[Failed Unit]

Sorry, it was with them, but it didn't have a CT interior/refurb if it was ex fTPE

No they didn't. It caused confusion when they visit Grimsby and sat next to a real CT train. They had TPE stickers on them and appologies about the condition of the train and no first class. TPE didn't get hold of them until it was fairly clear the 185s were coming so did nothing with them. Hence why that unit was in regional railways livery for so long!

 

[Damien1986]

Is it true that class 150 dmus once briefly ran some services on the West Highland line and did they ever have a trolley service for the journeys?

 

[CarterUSM]

Is it true that class 150 dmus once briefly ran some services on the West Highland line and did they ever have a trolley service for the journeys?

I think they certainly went to Oban at one time, but not 100% sure, though rail-britain should know more .

 

[rail-britain]

Is it true that class 150 dmus once briefly ran some services on the West Highland line and did they ever have a trolley service for the journeys?

Class 150/2 units primarily operated Edinburgh - Dundee
I never saw them in Glasgow QS and had to travel to Edinburgh to see them

They did have a trolley initially between Edinburgh and Dundee, but it was a complete disaster such that the contractor (CCG) at the time did not renew the contract for the next timetable

 

[route101]

Ive seen the 150s on the Cumbernauld runs .As late as 2004 .

 

[TheBigD]

Is it true that class 150 dmus once briefly ran some services on the West Highland line and did they ever have a trolley service for the journeys?

The prototype made it to Oban and Fort William during 1984(?).

 

[MacCookie]

Is it true that class 150 dmus once briefly ran some services on the West Highland line and did they ever have a trolley service for the journeys?

http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Class+150

 

[Damien1986]

Class 150/2 units primarily operated Edinburgh - Dundee
I never saw them in Glasgow QS and had to travel to Edinburgh to see them

They did have a trolley initially between Edinburgh and Dundee, but it was a complete disaster such that the contractor (CCG) at the time did not renew the contract for the next timetable

Did these units ever carry a trolley service when they operated certain services on the West Highland route and when they did Inverness to Aberdeen/Wick/Kyle services?

 

[route:oxford]

Did these units ever carry a trolley service when they operated certain services on the West Highland route and when they did Inverness to Aberdeen/Wick/Kyle services?

They had a trolley service on the Edinburghunblane runs when first introduced. I'm sure it was in the timetable for several editions, but it was effectively discontinued fairly quickly.

There has been a significant change in expectations in the last 20 years though. Back in 1990 You wouldn't have bothered too much about going 30 minutes without having the opportunity to buy a coffee. In city centres now you can barely go 30 metres without being finding somewhere to buy a hot drink.