• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Western Greyhound Fire and subsequent WG general discussion.

Status
Not open for further replies.

SWTH

Member
Joined
12 Mar 2013
Messages
418
Location
Shrewsbury/Porthmadog/Exeter
I understand that it has now been confirmed that none of the Varios are DDA compliant without expensive mods, which means they're useless after the end of this year.

I'm struggling to find anything that confirms that. The legislation still only mentions buses, even official TfL documents state buses only in 2015 and 'all coaches' for 2020.

Can anyone point me towards an official document giving the revised regulations?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

swifty

Established Member
Joined
19 Sep 2012
Messages
1,672
They did sell newer Solo's and replace these with older MPD's which should of helped things to reduce costs i.e. vehicle depreciation etc

You have to bear in mind that they only sold 4 of their smallest M710 Solos which had been bought new. In total 11 Solos were lost in the fire so that is more than likely what the Dart SLFs purchased have effectivley replaced.
 
Last edited:

bnm

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2009
Messages
4,996
WGs website is unobtainable today.

Are the buses out and about as normal?
 

trentside

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
14 Aug 2010
Messages
3,337
Location
Messroom
Keep an eye out on the Where's my bus page,

The quickest way to find if buses have turned up

https://www.facebook.com/wgwheresmybus?fref=ts

A very interesting post on that page from a Western Greyhound driver - sounds like they're having an awful time at the moment, and taking the brunt of people's frustrations. I've reproduced the post below;

Can I give you an example of my last 2 days as a driver please. And before I start I am sympathetic to all of your experiences so please don't think this is a "my day was worse than your day" message because it isn't. It's an example of what a bus driver does during the day. Here goes.
Firstly: Tuesday 4th November. My shift was changed to accomodate the fact that Western Greyhound (WG) have lost drivers due to circumstances beyond the control of drivers. So I did a 597/587 which was handed to me 12 minutes late. I had made that time up by the time I got to Victoria Square. Then then Concession cards come out and of the 9 people I collected from there 6 didn't know where they actually wanted to go, 1 dropped her trolley and the other 2 were the only ones with there cards ready. So I left Victoria Square 4 minutes late. College traffic and a tractor along Penstraze meant I was 8 minutes down by the time I got to St Agnes. As a professional driver who knows the roads and the routes I was actually back on time by Goonhavern. In cubert there was a royal mail van parked on the bus stop so I had to illegally park and assist an elderly passenger with her trolly. Being 3 minutes late by the time I'd gone to Holywell Bay I met the other bus in the narrows and she reversed back. I got to Newquay on time. Of the 26 passengers I collected and dropped off I said "hi" or generally "ok", "please and thanks" to all of them. 8 said please and thanks. 10 said nothing polite, 6 said thanks/cheers and 2 actually started by saying "last week this bus never turned up. Where were you?" I replied "on annual leave with my family last week. I apologise on the companies behalf". The reply from them was "bollocks"!
When I got to Newquay for my 1 hour paid break I was bombarded with questions about First, WG being bloody useless and where do I catch so and so bus. I answered each one.
Walked into town. Got told by a member of staff in Argos that I'll be out of a job next week. Went back to the drivers room and ate my lunch.
Was informed that my next run to Padstow was running but the bus before didn't. So as I'm collecting passengers all the way to padstow (36 on and off) the paying passengers seemed to understand. The 25 concession holders were the rudest. Ranging from "your late.... again" (I wasn't. I was on time but they had waited for the previous bus) to "no wonder your company is going under". Again I apologised on the companies behalf but was met by stoney silence, verbal abuse and a general rudeness. Again I was professional.
When arriving at Padstow the bus going the other way informed me that he had broken down in Wadebridge and couldn't get to Bodmin on time so didn't do the Wadebridge to bodmin. This means the people in Wadebridge hadn't had a connection to Bodmin for 2 hours. Guess what met me in Wadebridge. 15 very angry people. Again not my fault. I apologised. Informed them I'd endevour to get them to Bodmin on time. Only one of those people thanked me or said please. I said please and thanks to all. As I left Bodmin to return I was met with sarcastic cheers and abuse as again it was inevitable that those people from bodmin had waited 2 hours for a bus. I apologised on the companies behalf and of the 17 people there 4 said please and thanks (I had been polite to them). Those four had had come from Wadebridge 30 minutes earlier and had seen me struggle to make time, remain professional against abuse and apologies for things beyond my control. As I got to Wadebridge those 4 were great tbh. "Well done drive, good driving, spotted that taxi well bud". Small thanks makes a difference. Picked up from Wadebridge. 2 had lost tickets, 1 had an out of date concession card and the rest were thoroughly ****ed off. I apologised again, had to charge the ticket misplacers and the concession card holder. Was met with abuse from passengers who said "let them travel free". I replied politely that a few weeks back a driver was suspended for allowing a passenger to travel one stop whilst he negotiated parked vehicles at bodmin mount folly bus stop and he was 'jumped' at the next stop, suspended and investigated. I was sworn at and remained professional. Got to Padstow on time. Again very few said 'thanks' but 2 holiday makers remarked how well I'd done to remain calm as passengers decided to ignore the bells and expect me to remember exactlt where they intended to alight. It's bad enough remembering a route, fare stages, legal speed limits, diversion routes etc on a 5 hour run! At Padstow 6 people got on. 2 wanted a "car park near a corner shop just beyond a bridge", 2 wanted a specific hotel in Newquay (I know the bus stops, routes etc but no idea of the hotels). 1 had a wet dog who when I asked her to please keep the dog on the lead and off the seat was met with a torrent of abuse (I ask that dogs be kept on a lead and off the seats. Off the seats because when a child sits on the seat they use their hands as leverage and then whatever the dogs have on their fur gets transferred to the child via hand to mouth) and 1 passenger who was ****ed off because of the non running early buses (understandably so). Again I apologised and said I'd endevour to get them their on time.
I did. There was a few large vehicles in awkward places but we got back on time.
Everyone seemed happy and between us we found the hotel the passengers were looking for (no "thank you driver) although to every passenger I said "please" "thanks" "goodbye" too.
This was in a bus where there was no destination blind, several minor defects (gearing problem/ bulb out on dash etc), not the correct running card so I had to check the bus stops for running times and no radio to base to check timings so had to use my own phone (which we don't get reimbursed btw).
Like I said not a comparison. Just an insight to a drivers day. Nothing that I had done contrubuted to the failings of the previous buses. Not my fault but I tried my best and for many that wasn't enough. I'm sorry the previous buses didn't run. For your sake and mine.
Us drivers don't know if we have a job to go to most mornings. We are all worried. Some of you are on a bus for 10 minutes. On certain runs we're on them for 5 hours with no break. No toilet facilities. No pay rise for 4 years. Even thinking we'll get called back to base and told "that's it peeps".
We drop some of you to work in the mornings, drop the same people home then out for the evening.
This is not a "poor bus driver post" or anything like that. It's one shift of 6 I do Monday to Saturday. With people wishing our company would fold. We drivers just drive. The bunch of people there right now are fighting for there jobs. Still turning up against a feeling of bad will. Getting spat at, sworn at, physically assaulted and threatened daily (this does happen to us).
I genuinely apologise to those affected by what's happening. We as drivers are trying our best.
What affects you affects us and the next bus and driver.
Thanks for reading.
Graham
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,096
A very interesting post on that page from a Western Greyhound driver - sounds like they're having an awful time at the moment, and taking the brunt of people's frustrations. I've reproduced the post below;

That's a heartrending account and it's a wonder any drivers remain in those circumstances. WG obviously can't/won't continue like that. The Traffic Commissioner's people must be monitoring this to an extent, as well as Cornwall Council of course on tendered routes. WG must have given some pretty compelling reasons to be allowed to carry on thus far : the problem could be that even with an emergency cash injection (if needed) a lack of drivers will stymie them from retrieving anything meaningful.
 

trentside

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
14 Aug 2010
Messages
3,337
Location
Messroom
As someone who works in a customer facing role on the railways, and know a number of people in the bus industry - this story rings very true, and I feel incredibly sorry for Graham and his colleagues. Interesting to note that he alleges that people are still being suspended for minor infractions, which seems like utter madness when they're in the situation they're in.
 

winston270twm

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2012
Messages
1,899
A very interesting post on that page from a Western Greyhound driver - sounds like they're having an awful time at the moment, and taking the brunt of people's frustrations. I've reproduced the post below;

That driver needs a medal!
 

SWTH

Member
Joined
12 Mar 2013
Messages
418
Location
Shrewsbury/Porthmadog/Exeter
That driver needs a medal!

As do most of the others there. The situation described there has been going on for months, and hasn't been much better for the last two years. For all the managements failings, the drivers at WGL are one of the finest, hardest-working groups of people I've ever had the pleasure of working with. As with any company, there's a few who aren't exactly brilliant, but by and large despite whatever is thrown at the drivers they just plod on and deal with it.

Reasons vary as to why people stay - mainly it's circumstantial, WGL being more flexible (admittedly by necessity) with shifts and holidays, allowing for drivers who need certain finish times on certain days as well as people east of Truro/Newquay not wanting to commute to Camborne or Truro.
 

winston270twm

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2012
Messages
1,899
As do most of the others there. The situation described there has been going on for months, and hasn't been much better for the last two years. For all the managements failings, the drivers at WGL are one of the finest, hardest-working groups of people I've ever had the pleasure of working with. As with any company, there's a few who aren't exactly brilliant, but by and large despite whatever is thrown at the drivers they just plod on and deal with it.

Reasons vary as to why people stay - mainly it's circumstantial, WGL being more flexible (admittedly by necessity) with shifts and holidays, allowing for drivers who need certain finish times on certain days as well as people east of Truro/Newquay not wanting to commute to Camborne or Truro.

It's a shame WG has gone the way it has, I hope someone else sees value in WG & gives the business the cash injection/security it needs to continue and keep all those loyal drivers in work! If the problems at WG can be resolved & reliability / quality brought back up to where it used to be, there's nothing to suggest that the new competition from First would be that effective against a reinvigorated WG :| I've not been to Perranporth since the June, so no idea how much impact the 1st wave of competition is having on WG, fare comparisons etc
 

richw

Veteran Member
Joined
10 Jun 2010
Messages
11,234
Location
Liskeard
As do most of the others there. The situation described there has been going on for months, and hasn't been much better for the last two years. For all the managements failings, the drivers at WGL are one of the finest, hardest-working groups of people I've ever had the pleasure of working with. As with any company, there's a few who aren't exactly brilliant, but by and large despite whatever is thrown at the drivers they just plod on and deal with it.

Reasons vary as to why people stay - mainly it's circumstantial, WGL being more flexible (admittedly by necessity) with shifts and holidays, allowing for drivers who need certain finish times on certain days as well as people east of Truro/Newquay not wanting to commute to Camborne or Truro.

I've only come across one rude driver, I don't think he is there any more as I have not seen him for some time. I'd never publish or complain details about a rude driver though as I don't know the underlying factors.
(It wasn't you SWTH :lol: )
 

richw

Veteran Member
Joined
10 Jun 2010
Messages
11,234
Location
Liskeard
.
Anyone know if there were any serious expressions of interest by the deadline ?

At a guess there must be. Several drivers had said they wouldn't have been any services today unless there was serious interest. Operated as normal today without the pre advertised cancelled services.
 

Robertj21a

On Moderation
Joined
22 Sep 2013
Messages
7,520
At a guess there must be. Several drivers had said they wouldn't have been any services today unless there was serious interest. Operated as normal today without the pre advertised cancelled services.



I'm told that there has been one (at least ?) serious offer.
 

NorthernSpirit

Established Member
Joined
21 Jun 2013
Messages
2,184
A very interesting post on that page from a Western Greyhound driver - sounds like they're having an awful time at the moment, and taking the brunt of people's frustrations. I've reproduced the post below;

Can I give you an example of my last 2 days as a driver please. And before I start I am sympathetic to all of your experiences so please don't think this is a "my day was worse than your day" message because it isn't. It's an example of what a bus driver does during the day. Here goes.
Firstly: Tuesday 4th November. My shift was changed to accomodate the fact that Western Greyhound (WG) have lost drivers due to circumstances beyond the control of drivers. So I did a 597/587 which was handed to me 12 minutes late. I had made that time up by the time I got to Victoria Square. Then then Concession cards come out and of the 9 people I collected from there 6 didn't know where they actually wanted to go, 1 dropped her trolley and the other 2 were the only ones with there cards ready. So I left Victoria Square 4 minutes late. College traffic and a tractor along Penstraze meant I was 8 minutes down by the time I got to St Agnes. As a professional driver who knows the roads and the routes I was actually back on time by Goonhavern. In cubert there was a royal mail van parked on the bus stop so I had to illegally park and assist an elderly passenger with her trolly. Being 3 minutes late by the time I'd gone to Holywell Bay I met the other bus in the narrows and she reversed back. I got to Newquay on time. Of the 26 passengers I collected and dropped off I said "hi" or generally "ok", "please and thanks" to all of them. 8 said please and thanks. 10 said nothing polite, 6 said thanks/cheers and 2 actually started by saying "last week this bus never turned up. Where were you?" I replied "on annual leave with my family last week. I apologise on the companies behalf". The reply from them was "bollocks"! When I got to Newquay for my 1 hour paid break I was bombarded with questions about First, WG being bloody useless and where do I catch so and so bus. I answered each one. Walked into town. Got told by a member of staff in Argos that I'll be out of a job next week. Went back to the drivers room and ate my lunch. Was informed that my next run to Padstow was running but the bus before didn't. So as I'm collecting passengers all the way to padstow (36 on and off) the paying passengers seemed to understand. The 25 concession holders were the rudest. Ranging from "your late.... again" (I wasn't. I was on time but they had waited for the previous bus) to "no wonder your company is going under". Again I apologised on the companies behalf but was met by stoney silence, verbal abuse and a general rudeness. Again I was professional.
When arriving at Padstow the bus going the other way informed me that he had broken down in Wadebridge and couldn't get to Bodmin on time so didn't do the Wadebridge to bodmin. This means the people in Wadebridge hadn't had a connection to Bodmin for 2 hours. Guess what met me in Wadebridge. 15 very angry people. Again not my fault. I apologised. Informed them I'd endevour to get them to Bodmin on time. Only one of those people thanked me or said please. I said please and thanks to all. As I left Bodmin to return I was met with sarcastic cheers and abuse as again it was inevitable that those people from bodmin had waited 2 hours for a bus. I apologised on the companies behalf and of the 17 people there 4 said please and thanks (I had been polite to them). Those four had had come from Wadebridge 30 minutes earlier and had seen me struggle to make time, remain professional against abuse and apologies for things beyond my control. As I got to Wadebridge those 4 were great tbh. "Well done drive, good driving, spotted that taxi well bud". Small thanks makes a difference. Picked up from Wadebridge. 2 had lost tickets, 1 had an out of date concession card and the rest were thoroughly ****ed off. I apologised again, had to charge the ticket misplacers and the concession card holder. Was met with abuse from passengers who said "let them travel free". I replied politely that a few weeks back a driver was suspended for allowing a passenger to travel one stop whilst he negotiated parked vehicles at bodmin mount folly bus stop and he was 'jumped' at the next stop, suspended and investigated. I was sworn at and remained professional. Got to Padstow on time. Again very few said 'thanks' but 2 holiday makers remarked how well I'd done to remain calm as passengers decided to ignore the bells and expect me to remember exactlt where they intended to alight. It's bad enough remembering a route, fare stages, legal speed limits, diversion routes etc on a 5 hour run! At Padstow 6 people got on. 2 wanted a "car park near a corner shop just beyond a bridge", 2 wanted a specific hotel in Newquay (I know the bus stops, routes etc but no idea of the hotels). 1 had a wet dog who when I asked her to please keep the dog on the lead and off the seat was met with a torrent of abuse (I ask that dogs be kept on a lead and off the seats. Off the seats because when a child sits on the seat they use their hands as leverage and then whatever the dogs have on their fur gets transferred to the child via hand to mouth) and 1 passenger who was ****ed off because of the non running early buses (understandably so). Again I apologised and said I'd endevour to get them their on time. I did. There was a few large vehicles in awkward places but we got back on time. Everyone seemed happy and between us we found the hotel the passengers were looking for (no "thank you driver) although to every passenger I said "please" "thanks" "goodbye" too.

This was in a bus where there was no destination blind, several minor defects (gearing problem/ bulb out on dash etc), not the correct running card so I had to check the bus stops for running times and no radio to base to check timings so had to use my own phone (which we don't get reimbursed btw).
Like I said not a comparison. Just an insight to a drivers day. Nothing that I had done contrubuted to the failings of the previous buses. Not my fault but I tried my best and for many that wasn't enough. I'm sorry the previous buses didn't run. For your sake and mine.
Us drivers don't know if we have a job to go to most mornings. We are all worried. Some of you are on a bus for 10 minutes. On certain runs we're on them for 5 hours with no break. No toilet facilities. No pay rise for 4 years. Even thinking we'll get called back to base and told "that's it peeps".
We drop some of you to work in the mornings, drop the same people home then out for the evening.

This is not a "poor bus driver post" or anything like that. It's one shift of 6 I do Monday to Saturday. With people wishing our company would fold. We drivers just drive. The bunch of people there right now are fighting for there jobs. Still turning up against a feeling of bad will. Getting spat at, sworn at, physically assaulted and threatened daily (this does happen to us).
I genuinely apologise to those affected by what's happening. We as drivers are trying our best.
What affects you affects us and the next bus and driver.
Thanks for reading.
Graham

I genuinely feel very sorry for that driver and the rest of his colleauges too, as its close to Christmas, these lads may not have any work available for them on Monday morning. Plus the defects that were mentioned, their bound to get worse if WG maintenance is slipping.
 

83G/84D

Established Member
Joined
28 Oct 2011
Messages
5,960
Location
Cornwall
My sympathies are with the drivers and other staff of Western Greyhound who are working hard to keep services running and are receiving a lot of unjustified abuse through circumstances outside their control.

No-one deserves the "stick" they are getting and some of the people dishing out the abuse should be ashamed of themselves. I understand the frustration of the travelling public but the level of abuse mentioned is totally out of order.

It is not the easiest job when things are going well let alone now.

I hope everything works out well for Graham and his colleagues.
 
Last edited:

overthewater

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2012
Messages
8,176
I cant agree, many of the people are who complaining can't get to their work. Can't get back from their work, Can't afford taxi for the journeys which never turn up. People are wasting hours on service then never turn up.

This company has done more to drive people into cars etc and we're never see those passengers back ever again.
 

robertclark125

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2008
Messages
1,617
Location
Cardenden, Fife
Sadly, the drivers are on the front line, so they're the easiest to be targeted by the public. If anything, the person who should be explaining why this mess has occurred, and what the future is, is Mark Howarth.
 

richw

Veteran Member
Joined
10 Jun 2010
Messages
11,234
Location
Liskeard
Sadly, the drivers are on the front line, so they're the easiest to be targeted by the public. If anything, the person who should be explaining why this mess has occurred, and what the future is, is Mark Howarth.

Every media comment he's made recently has blamed all sorts of third party events for the failing services.
His Facebook page is set to public, and it looks like some of his frustrated passengers have picked up and started using it against his business. Apparently photos of him travelling first class flights taken recently.
 

Rich McLean

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2012
Messages
1,685
As already mentioned, one group has registered interest in Western Greyhound. Can't imagine it being an outsider, so my money is on Go-Ahead, but expect at the same time for big cutbacks if they end up taking over, with HQ based at Milehouse in Plymouth and operations cut right back to North and East Cornwall, with Central and West Cornwall left to First
 

mbonwick

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2006
Messages
6,262
Location
Kendal
Let's not discount Tower Transit (you know, the Aussies that bought First London)...after picking up Impact Group a few weeks ago, they apparently closed the deal on Go Whippet/Whippet of Swavesey today as well.....
 

Mr Manager

Member
Joined
23 Jul 2013
Messages
197
, they apparently closed the deal on Go Whippet/Whippet of Swavesey today as well.....[/QUOTE]

Do you have a link to this story ? From a personal point of view i think this is a Mmtm (my mate told me) . Many moons ago i was involved with a very progressive and aggressive company. we looked at Whippet. However various deeds of convent's attached to the company basically mean the company could never be sold.
 

mbonwick

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2006
Messages
6,262
Location
Kendal
No link as yet, is a MMTM for the moment.
However as he has been in the industry for many years and is citing several contacts, including drivers at Whippet and senior staff at surrounding operators, I'm slightly inclined to believe him.
 

robertclark125

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2008
Messages
1,617
Location
Cardenden, Fife
The most important thing to stress, once again, that despite uncertainty about the immediate future, Western greyhound is still operating. For any prospective buyer, staff and passengers, that's a positive sign.
 

baza585

Member
Joined
1 Aug 2010
Messages
640
As already mentioned, one group has registered interest in Western Greyhound. Can't imagine it being an outsider, so my money is on Go-Ahead, but expect at the same time for big cutbacks if they end up taking over, with HQ based at Milehouse in Plymouth and operations cut right back to North and East Cornwall, with Central and West Cornwall left to First

[cynic]And of course, if it is GoAhead, they may simply be interested in looking at the books to see which routes if any are worth registering commercially, and how much to bid when/if CCC re-tender the tendered routes that WG has![/cynic]

Sorry to be negative but I am not convinced just yet there is a saviour waiting in the wings.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top