What were the design considerations behind the Eurostar departure lounge at St Pancras?

[Blindtraveler]

Definitely a case of money talks where St P and so many other major terminal stations are concerned these days. I'm not at all keen on the concept of building a small to medium size shopping mall from where trains occasionally happened to arrive or depart but that's where we are now and are likely to stay for a bit until railways worldwide refocus their attention on passengers and not on making lots of money

I've only ever used the arrivals area at international and it does seem generous, if you're going to do structural alterations whatever you do don't get rid of the moving walkways as these are essential and indeed we could do with more of them at this station in particular as some of the distances covered between interchanges are immense

Both from a cosmetic and practical point of view the facilities I suspect could probably do with some refurbishment now and this would be a great opportunity to reconfigure the available space which is definitely a problem, at busy times or times of disruption the queue can sometimes spread out of the Eurostar welcome area into the main passenger areas of the station and cause conflicting movements with passengers using other services or trying to transfer to the tube

 

[Trainbike46]

Semi-related: why were baggage checks deemed necessary for Eurostar? The Eurotunnel shuttle gets away without them, as do passenger services through tunnels in Switzerland and Japan.

My understanding this was because the UK government was paranoid of it becoming a target of a terrorist attack. Then of course 2001 happened, and the chances of the policy being relaxed became near zero.

As I understand it, the eurotunnel shuttle has separate, non-obvious checks, though I'm not at all an expert on this issue

Would it not incur higher track access charges though?

probably, as such a service would require making use of the world's most expensive reversing siding, also known as St Pancras station

 

[nwales58]

Baggage checks for the same reason as all the lovely stainless steel covered closely-spaced bollards around busy stations: ask DfT LTS, probably was TranSec at the time.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I mean the bag checks are mostly security theatre, including the metal detectors. Does anyone ever get asked to open their bags?

Yes - I got my suitcase opened at Gare du Nord in 2018.

Mind you, I had stuffed it full with 20 packets of the LU Petit Ecolier biscuits without thinking about how the foil wrapped inners might look on an x-ray screen...

 

[Taunton]

I know it's fashionable to blame many things on Brexit, but it seems the actual passport checks etc take about 20 seconds each. Nevertheless it now seems asked for people to turn up the best part of an HOUR earlier compared to how it initially was. Now I don't know if this is to encourage custom at the internal retail units, or whatever, but much of the issue seems asking people to get there much too early, and then having no space for them. This then leads to those for the next departure being queued in in a disorderly mass back into the concourse.

"Arrive 90 minutes ahead, gates close at 30 minutes" ?? I remember when Eurostar started, with the same size trains, it was arrive by 15 minutes ahead.

 

[Gloster]

I know it's fashionable to blame many things on Brexit, but it seems the actual passport checks etc take about 20 seconds each. Nevertheless it now seems asked for people to turn up the best part of an HOUR earlier compared to how it initially was. Now I don't know if this is to encourage custom at the internal retail units, or whatever, but much of the issue seems asking people to get there much too early, and then having no space for them. This then leads to those for the next departure being queued in in a disorderly mass back into the concourse.

"Arrive 90 minutes ahead, gates close at 30 minutes" ?? I remember when Eurostar started, with the same size trains, it was arrive by 15 minutes ahead.

I mentioned in another thread that I had read somewhere that the average time for a passport check (possibly at Dover) has risen from something like forty seconds to seventy-five. I think that this was just straightforward ones and presume that more complicated checks have risen by a similar amount, if not more.

 

[Krokodil]

What really doesn't help is that boarding never starts until 20 minutes before departure. So everyone gets kettled in the departures lounge instead of the "free flow" mentioned near the top of the thread.

 

[AdamWW]

"Arrive 90 minutes ahead, gates close at 30 minutes" ?? I remember when Eurostar started, with the same size trains, it was arrive by 15 minutes ahead.

Yes - I seem to recall the change in check-in times wiped out much of the speed advantage of the CTRL. I wondered at the time if an investment in more passport/security lanes might have been a more cost-efficient way of speeding things up.

(Of course it also brings more capacity, reduces the interaction with domestic trains and allows Continental loading gauge stock).

 

[jon0844]

probably, as such a service would require making use of the world's most expensive reversing siding, also known as St Pancras station

That wouldn't take long and if your aim is to reduce congestion in departures at St Pancras, an ECS move upstairs isn't an issue.

There is the time consideration in securely emptying the train of people however, which can take a while at St Pancras.

 

[Dougal2345]

A slight digression perhaps, but passing through the Gare du Nord yesterday, I was wondering why it is necessary to pass through two sets of automatic passport gates (French and English, I guess) when they presumably do exactly the same thing? Can't both customs systems be wired up to a single set of gates?

Also noticed some new "arches" just before the exit of the arrival hall at St Pancras, what are they? My guess was some kind of drug detectors?

Anyway we can't make the arrivals hall any smaller, it's necessary for gaggles of border force staff to stand around staring intimidatingly at tourists in that "welcome to London" way, that somehow the Paris equivalents never see the need to do...

 

[Gaelan]

A slight digression perhaps, but passing through the Gare du Nord yesterday, I was wondering why it is necessary to pass through two sets of automatic passport gates (French and English, I guess) when they presumably do exactly the same thing? Can't both customs systems be wired up to a single set of gates?

Beyond any technical issues, realistically such a gate would still be operated in practice by one country or the other, which would mean entrusting passport control to a foreign power.

 

[nwales58]

... which would mean entrusting passport control to a foreign power.

Which, of course, Schengen member states do sign up to. Albeit currently with increasing lack of confidence (e.g. Bayern's re-created border force).

 

[Trainbike46]

A slight digression perhaps, but passing through the Gare du Nord yesterday, I was wondering why it is necessary to pass through two sets of automatic passport gates (French and English, I guess) when they presumably do exactly the same thing? Can't both customs systems be wired up to a single set of gates?

Also noticed some new "arches" just before the exit of the arrival hall at St Pancras, what are they? My guess was some kind of drug detectors?

Anyway we can't make the arrivals hall any smaller, it's necessary for gaggles of border force staff to stand around staring intimidatingly at tourists in that "welcome to London" way, that somehow the Paris equivalents never see the need to do...

The St Pancras arrivals area has already been reduced in size this year to create a second departures lounge that is used at busy times.

 

[island]

Aside from Stratford, wouldn't using Ebbsfleet or Ashford, or both, again be a solution to easing capacitiy in St Pancras? Particularly if revenue is being lost by deliberately leaving empty seats on some trains leaving London it could justify the expense of staffing these stations again. Presumably scanners and other equipment is mothballed and could be readily brought back into use.

Yes, but Eurostar would have to pay for their staff, UK Border Force, French Police aux Frontieres, and Mitie security. At least 10 people.

Does anyone ever get asked to open their bags?

Yes, my wife and I fairly regularly do, we haven't quite figured out how to pack our charging cables in a way that doesn't cause suspicion.

What really doesn't help is that boarding never starts until 20 minutes before departure. So everyone gets kettled in the departures lounge instead of the "free flow" mentioned near the top of the thread.

For one thing, you can't have trains boarding and deboarding on adjacent platforms at the same time, as that means passengers who are "legally" not in France intermingling with those who are.