Why do EMT serve Scarborough in the Summer?

[Jonathan1990]

I'm just wondering why they run an East Midlands service from St Pancras to Scarborough on summer Saturdays and the idea for it.

 

[800001]

I'm just wondering why they run an East Midlands service from St Pancras to Scarborough on summer Saturdays and the idea for it.

Popular with day trippers/holiday makers traveling from stations on MML. Certainly from York heading back south it can have some very healthy loadings.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Midland Mainline started doing it because, err, some people wanted to travel to and from Scarborough on summer Saturdays.
The idea was then enshrined as a franchise obligation, AIUI.

 

[Tomnot27]

It also helps add capacity by providing 2tph to Scarborough from York along with TPE Saturday only extras

 

[a_c_skinner]

This isn't as daft a question as it seems, I was wondering the same.

 

[yorksrob]

The one time I caught it back from Scarborough to York, it was overcrowded to an irritating extent.

 

[dk1]

I'm a seasoned railwayman & I never get it especially as it's shortly going up to 2tph. How ever is it worth the effort for EMT with the limited extra business compared with the crew training issues? I will & have never understood this one.

 

[Starmill]

I'm a seasoned railwayman & I never get it especially as it's shortly going up to 2tph.

Surely you have just answered your own question? There are enough passengers that 2thp is viable, so 2tph run in some hours to cater for the extra demand. The fact a through service to York and Scarborough is on offer direct from Sheffield and various East Midlands stations is an extra bonus.

 

[dk1]

Surely you have just answered your own question? There are enough passengers that 2thp is viable, so 2tph run in some hours to cater for the extra demand. The fact a through service to York and Scarborough is on offer direct from Sheffield and various East Midlands stations is an extra bonus.

But how many are through passengers from the Midland Main Line? So, no I haven't answered my own question.

 

[bb21]

It's mainly there to serve the East Mids to Scarborough market, although from what I saw last time, it carried a good load through from London too and seemed to provide a useful alternative for the capital.

Crew training isn't too big an issue I'd imagine, as top few links (I believe?) at Sheffield will have the York service all year round to keep their route knowledge up to scratch. Maybe a refresher once a year to Scarborough?

It's also useful as a tool for an ORCATS raid each summer.

 

[Bungle965]

Midland Mainline started doing it because, err, some people wanted to travel to and from Scarborough on summer Saturdays.
The idea was then enshrined as a franchise obligation, AIUI.

Didn't they start the service off with 170s before being upgraded to 222s?
Sam

 

[Bevan Price]

Didn't they start the service off with 170s before being upgraded to 222s?
Sam

It was a replacement for the former Leicester - Scarborough summer saturday service. Not seen it for a couple of years, but it used to load quite well on some saturdays. Does it still run as far as York in winter ?

 

[ExRes]

Didn't they start the service off with 170s before being upgraded to 222s?
Sam

The Scarborough service was certainly running with 170s in 2000 when I started at MML

 

[Mugby]

It's a good duty for the crews as well. They get to spend the whole day in Scarborough too.

It does run as far as York throughout the winter.

 

[Bungle965]

It was a replacement for the former Leicester - Scarborough summer saturday service. Not seen it for a couple of years, but it used to load quite well on some saturdays. Does it still run as far as York in winter ?

Thanks for that info, yes in the winter it only runs to York.

The Scarborough service was certainly running with 170s in 2000 when I started at MML

Thanks for confirming that.
Sam

 

[Deafdoggie]

I caught it last year, was full throughout. I know they need breaks, but it did seem a waste having the train crew all there all day! Must add to the cost. But then again, in the winter it sits even longer at York-do the crew all stay there all day too?

I think a 5-car Meridian isn't long enough in the summer though. I caught it at Derby, already pretty full with through pax, a lot for both york and Scarborough. York ones replaced at York. I'd say it was certainly well worth running from what I saw.

 

[Clansman]

So what's the York and Leeds EMT service for?

Are they just there to take the ease of XC services which see heavy loading from the Midlands to Yorkshire?

 

[ainsworth74]

So what's the York and Leeds EMT service for?

Well Leeds is because the HSTs are going that way anyway to get to/from Neville Hill so they might as well run in service to pick up some revenue. York is presumably a mixture of keeping route knowledge for the Scarborough service (less to need refreshing on) and also a destination in its own right of course.

 

[DarloRich]

Well Leeds is because the HSTs are going that way anyway to get to/from Neville Hill so they might as well run in service to pick up some revenue. York is presumably a mixture of keeping route knowledge for the Scarborough service (less to need refreshing on) and also a destination in its own right of course.

and a slice of York - London ticket revenue ?

 

[AndyHA]

This train goes back to BR days . In the early 1980s it started at Luton and run to Scarborough, using one of the "Bedford Line " commuter sets of Mark 1s . That sat idle at weekends in the Sidings at Bedford .

 

[philjo]

In either August 1983 or 1984 we used the through summer saturday Kings Cross to Scarborough service, boarding at Stevenage. I think that service stopped running shortly before ECML electrifiction?

 

[ainsworth74]

and a slice of York - London ticket revenue ?

It would be an incredibly thin slice if any at all! One and a half return trains per week (the Saturday service is to/from St Pancras but on Sunday only the return goes to London) and taking longer than any of the GC/VTEC services means that it would be a minuscule amount of revenue from flexible tickets.

 

[gerryuk]

Crew training isn't too big an issue I'd imagine, as top few links (I believe?) at Sheffield will have the York service all year round to keep their route knowledge up to scratch. Maybe a refresher once a year to Scarborough?

Do EMT have drivers, crews based in Sheffield? I thought they were all in Derby / Nottingham?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Do EMT have drivers, crews based in Sheffield? I thought they were all in Derby / Nottingham?

I know the catering crew got off/on at Sheffield. But I don't think the train crew did. There is no catering from sheffield, and none till sheffield coming back.

 

[Tomnick]

Do EMT have drivers, crews based in Sheffield? I thought they were all in Derby / Nottingham?

No drivers based at Sheffield - everything north of there is Derby work. There are TMs (and other traincrew) based there though.

 

[bb21]

Do EMT have drivers, crews based in Sheffield? I thought they were all in Derby / Nottingham?

I see Tomnick beat me to it.

Only TMs at Sheffield, and the top links tend to do the more esoteric routes, but the principle is the same with drivers from whichever depot w.r.t. route knowledge.

There is a Rail Gourmet base at Sheffield as someone upthread mentioned.

 

[route101]

Has it been operated with a HST before ?

 

[Bungle965]

Has it been operated with a HST before ?

Yes.
Sam

 

[ainsworth74]

Yes.
Sam

Not for a couple of years though now I think?

 

[Bungle965]

Not for a couple of years though now I think?

The last time I can remember it running as a HST was 2014.
Sam