Why do peak Victoria to Gillingham trains call at Crofton Park & Bellingham and not Catford

[NorthKent1989]

Via a very slow, IIRC all-stations service though. The old Charing Cross-Gillingham semi-fast was better in this respect

It’s insane that in a post Elizabeth line era that there is no semi fast service between Medway to Abbey Wood, pre 2018, Rochester to Abbey Wood could be done in just over 30 minutes, if such a service existed today I can imagine a fair few Medway commuters switching to this link.

The CHX to Gillingham semi fasts were very useful and much missed

One extra train per hour is not enough to bring Catford to such sought-after “West Hampstead” or “Woolwich” status, but it could be a good start if some effort is put in. There could be better integration between the two catford stations, allowing travel from Bromley to Lewisham or the city without having to employ the infamous Bromley North branch. Catford could locally be advertised for having “fast” trains into London and the Medway.

True, Woolwich Arsenal/Woolwich collectively has 20tph off peak and altogether the West Hampstead stations are at 28tph off peak

 

[bicbasher]

Via a very slow, IIRC all-stations service though. The old Charing Cross-Gillingham semi-fast was better in this respect

It was replaced by a Thameslink service via Greenwich which only runs fast between Abbey Wood and Slade Green, which is otherwise all stops. Lewisham passengers from the Medway Towns have to change at Dartford.

 

[NorthKent1989]

It was replaced by a Thameslink service via Greenwich which only runs fast between Abbey Wood and Slade Green, which is otherwise all stops. Lewisham passengers from the Medway Towns have to change at Dartford.

And the way the service is padded out it’s made journey times along the Woolwich line much slower than pre 2018.

This is an unpopular opinion I know but I really think it’s time they binned the Thameslink service to Rainham

 

[nw1]

And the way the service is passed out it’s made journey times along the Woolwich line much slower than pre 2018.

This is an unpopular opinion I know but I really think it’s time they binned the Thameslink service to Rainham

I think it's a fairly popular opinion on here, IIRC, but problems as to where to send the Thameslink service instead are always raised.

I guess making the Thameslink go the same route, and call at the same stops as, the old service is not possible? (i.e. via Lewisham and limited stop)?

 

[PGAT]

It’s *possible* but it would involve even worse conflicting movements

 

[NorthKent1989]

I think it's a fairly popular opinion on here, IIRC, but problems as to where to send the Thameslink service instead are always raised.

I guess making the Thameslink go the same route, and call at the same stops as, the old service is not possible? (i.e. via Lewisham and limited stop)?

It might be possibly but as the next poster PGAT says below

It’s *possible* but it would involve even worse conflicting movements

It already makes a conflict move at North Kent East Jnc, which is why it’s bizarre that they removed Charing Cross trains from Greenwich to neaten the junctions up to London Bridge, only to shove Thameslink through there and making journeys slower.

 

[PGAT]

It already makes a conflict move at North Kent East Jnc, which is why it’s bizarre that they removed Charing Cross trains from Greenwich to neaten the junctions up to London Bridge, only to shove Thameslink through there and making journeys slower.

Yes that is correct, but it is going to be worse if they have to cross over to the fast (Charing Cross lines) and then Tanner's Hill junction and THEN Lewisham Jn, OR tailgate stopping services on the slow lines. A Charing Cross - Gillingham service would work today assuming there are spare paths.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Yes that is correct, but it is going to be worse if they have to cross over to the fast (Charing Cross lines) and then Tanner's Hill junction and THEN Lewisham Jn, OR tailgate stopping services on the slow lines

Then the only solution is to remove Thameslink from the line in the long term, I did hear of Epsom via West Croydon being suggested a few times as a potential replacement for Rainham.

 

[PGAT]

Then the only solution is to remove Thameslink from the line in the long term, I did hear of Epsom via West Croydon being suggested a few times as a potential replacement for Rainham.

This is the ideal solution. Epsom via West Croydon is a low hanging fruit and would release 8 units for Southern to play with. The only issues are that 8 coaches isn’t sufficient in the peak so 12 car sets will need to be deployed on the side, and matching the Rainham paths with the Epsom paths isn’t a simple task either

 

[nw1]

Then the only solution is to remove Thameslink from the line in the long term, I did hear of Epsom via West Croydon being suggested a few times as a potential replacement for Rainham.

Given they already do the Wimbledon loop (or at least I think they still do) this would be more logical as it would be in an area with plenty of Thameslinks already. Would help make the Thameslink network seem neater and more coherent, for one thing.

 

[PGAT]

Given they already do the Wimbledon loop (or at least I think they still do) this would be more logical as it would be in an area with plenty of Thameslinks already. Would help make the Thameslink network seem neater and more coherent, for one thing.

And stations such as West Croydon, Epsom and Wallington passengers would benefit FAR more from core-access than North Kent ones, who change at Abbey Wood or Woolwich instead

 

[nw1]

And stations such as West Croydon, Epsom and Wallington passengers would benefit FAR more from core-access than North Kent ones, who change at Abbey Wood or Woolwich instead

Very true.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Given they already do the Wimbledon loop (or at least I think they still do) this would be more logical as it would be in an area with plenty of Thameslinks already. Would help make the Thameslink network seem neater and more coherent, for one thing.

It would be better, plus it’ll solve the Windmill Jnc issue, maybe it could take over the current Epsom semi fasts then extend them to Guildford?

And stations such as West Croydon, Epsom and Wallington passengers would benefit FAR more from core-access than North Kent ones, who change at Abbey Wood or Woolwich instead

Indeed, Thameslink is redundant now that the Liz Line is around.

If they’re can’t reroute it to Epsom via West Croydon, then perhaps maybe reroute it via Sidcup, taking over the Gravesend service.

(The Gillinghams will regain its semi fasts to Charing Cross in this scenario, and we might have an even quarter hourly service along the Greenwich line again)

 

[nw1]

It would be better, plus it’ll solve the Windmill Jnc issue, maybe it could take over the current Epsom semi fasts then extend them to Guildford?

It's probably one for the Speculative thread, but would it make more sense for the Dorking/Horsham services to be extensions of the Epsom semi-fasts? (If I remember right they are fast London Bridge to Norwood Junction thus might provide a faster journey than the current Victoria all-stations-stoppers).

 

[PGAT]

It's probably one for the Speculative thread, but would it make more sense for the Dorking/Horsham services to be extensions of the Epsom semi-fasts? (If I remember right they are fast London Bridge to Norwood Junction thus might provide a faster journey than the current Victoria all-stations-stoppers).

Sutton to Victoria and Sutton to London Bridge both take 32 minutes and Victoria has already been established as the primary and ideal terminus for the line.