Why does Okehampton - Bere Alston get all the attention, when the case is stronger for reopening to Bideford?

[BayPaul]

Moderator note: split from

Surely the case is now much stronger for Bere Alston - Tavistock - Okehampton!

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tavistock-re-opening-news.252662/ If Tavistock is now seriously on the cards and mention has also been made of a Dawlish coast diversion, surely the case is now much stronger for Bere Alston - Tavistock - Okehampton!

www.railforums.co.uk

Why is the conversation always about this line? I don't recall ever seeing a thread about reopening the line to Bideford (for example), although that is a bigger town even than Tavistock.

And people from Bideford certainly do travel to Barnstaple - there's a frequent bus service.

But the Okehampton - Bere Alston line just seems to attract all the attention for no particular reason.

 

[swt_passenger]

Why is the conversation always about this line? I don't recall ever seeing a thread about reopening the line to Bideford (for example), although that is a bigger town even than Tavistock. And people from Bideford certainly do travel to Barnstaple - there's a frequent bus service.
But the Okehampton - Bere Alston line just seems to attract all the attention for no particular reason.

I think people hope the Dawlish sea wall works will catastrophically fail, then they’ll have to open an inland through line. Then this fantasy reopening will be the obvious solution. Plus some knee jerk statement back in 2014 said it would be ‘looked at‘…

 

[yorksrob]

Why is the conversation always about this line? I don't recall ever seeing a thread about reopening the line to Bideford (for example), although that is a bigger town even than Tavistock. And people from Bideford certainly do travel to Barnstaple - there's a frequent bus service.
But the Okehampton - Bere Alston line just seems to attract all the attention for no particular reason.

I'd certainly support reopening Bideford. It inspired the Speller act after all.

I think Okehampton attracts attention because the line is already in various states of progress (open to Okehampton, active proposal for Tavistock - sort of).

I think people hope the Dawlish sea wall works will catastrophically fail, then they’ll have to open an inland through line. Then this fantasy reopening will be the obvious solution. Plus some knee jerk statement back in 2014 said it would be ‘looked at‘…

You can do all the strengthening works you want but most of Devon and Cornwall will still be at the end of a branchline.

 

[uglymonkey]

If you think about it - the whole of Devon and Cornwall is a "branchline " - OK Exeter has 2 "main" lines coming into it, but after that its all a "dead end", on one dead end "main line" with "feeder" branches on and off as you proceed towards the buffers at Penzance.

I think a lot of people think we should be jolly grateful there is any railway line west of Exeter ( or Bristol) come to that and shut up about it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'd certainly support reopening Bideford. It inspired the Speller act after all.

Have the heritage railway ever expressed interest in an extension to Bideford?

 

[BrianW]

If you think about it - the whole of Devon and Cornwall is a "branchline " - OK Exeter has 2 "main" lines coming into it, but after that its all a "dead end", on one dead end "main line" with "feeder" branches on and off as you proceed towards the buffers at Penzance.

I think a lot of people think we should be jolly grateful there is any railway line west of Exeter ( or Bristol) come to that and shut up about it.

Echoes of Serpell?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I can think of two former branch line terminal stations that being in a seaside location would be a help to tourism as well as for their local populations:-
Bude (closed in 1966)
Ilfracombe (closed in 1970)

 

[Irascible]

The Bideford line had track down until 1982 & failed to reopen ( at least DCC made sure there's nothing blocking it, including putting in a bridge under the A396 roundabout just in case ). It's a rather indirect way to Bideford when the station is a direct line via road though.

Ilfracombe is one of my pet peeves, but unfortunately just got unlucky - rotting bridge & numerous level crossings did it in.

I think a lot of people think we should be jolly grateful there is any railway line west of Exeter ( or Bristol) come to that and shut up about it.

It's the equivalent of being in Scotland or Wales without the devolved government to make a noise, thus the whole area is left picking up the scraps.

 

[DelW]

Ilfracombe is one of my pet peeves, but unfortunately just got unlucky - rotting bridge & numerous level crossings did it in.

Plus the geographic factors that meant that the station had had to be inconveniently sited, up a long hill from the town and seafront.

Quite a common problem with coastal resorts, Lyme Regis and Ventnor being two others in a similar situation.

 

[yorksrob]

Have the heritage railway ever expressed interest in an extension to Bideford?

Not as far as I'm aware. If they had done, they might have made a good go of it.

 

[Falcon1200]

Ilfracombe is one of my pet peeves, but unfortunately just got unlucky - rotting bridge & numerous level crossings did it in.

Plus the geographic factors that meant that the station had had to be inconveniently sited, up a long hill from the town and seafront.

Indeed, also the fact that Ilfracombe is not a particularly large resort, and people might therefore want to visit other places while holidaying there; As I did, staying there with my family in 2007, long after the railway had closed of course, but even if it was still there we would still have gone by car, as this allowed us to get, easily, to the likes of the Lynton & Barnstaple Railway and Tintagel.

 

[30907]

It's the equivalent of being in Scotland or Wales without the devolved government to make a noise, thus the whole area is left picking up the scraps.

A pretty impressive collection of scraps, though, with half-hourly services on all the main routes and even neglected (by the railway) Newquay in for a considerable improvement.

Bideford is the biggest settlement without a railway, followed by Bodmin.

Arguably, though, the bus at Bideford is more use for most journeys than a reinstated rail service would be - it doesn't help that Bideford and Barnstaple stations are the wrong side of the river for their towns!

 

[Cowley]

Let’s try and keep and keep this on the topic of Bideford for now please.

Thanks everyone

 

[SynthD]

Some of the line to Bideford is now the SW coast path or the Tarka trail. Is there precedent of closing those popular paths for rail?

What defines a stronger case, what were the bus usage for the two relevant routes, when Okehampton station wasn’t open?

 

[simonw]

Have the heritage railway ever expressed interest in an extension to Bideford?

Which heritage railway did you mean?

 

[Ashley Hill]

Here’s a link to a Devon Live article on the reopening idea.

Reopening of railway 'transformational for North Devon'

Support is growing for proposals to get the railway back

www.devonlive.com

Being a Retch publication there’s a lot of adverts to skip through to read the entire article.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Which heritage railway did you mean?

I must confess to have heard third-hand from a colleague of many years standing, who lives in the Torrington area now, having relocated from our Cheshire East area, as his wife has relations in that area. I think he mentioned something about an ACE project, whatever that was. Sorry if I have "got the wrong end of the stick", metaphorically speaking.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I must confess to have heard third-hand from a colleague of many years standing, who lives in the Torrington area now, having relocated from our Cheshire East area, as his wife has relations in that area. I think he mentioned something about an ACE project, whatever that was. Sorry if I have "got the wrong end of the stick", metaphorically speaking.

Bideford station has a preservation society of some sort based there (see above). Instow signal box is also preserved.

 

[yorksrob]

Given it had track for such a long time, it would be a surprise if it hadn't been considered for preservation at some stage.

 

[stuu]

Some of the line to Bideford is now the SW coast path or the Tarka trail. Is there precedent of closing those popular paths for rail?

What defines a stronger case, what were the bus usage for the two relevant routes, when Okehampton station wasn’t open?

The important question is where do people go. The railway is much better for travel into Exeter from Okehampton, with a choice of stations in the city. For anyone doing Bideford-Barnstaple, a train is handicapped by the station locations in both towns

 

[yorksrob]

The important question is where do people go. The railway is much better for travel into Exeter from Okehampton, with a choice of stations in the city. For anyone doing Bideford-Barnstaple, a train is handicapped by the station locations in both towns

But Barnstaple still manages to attract a lot of passengers. And Bideford station was hardly miles away from the town centre - just over a bridge.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The important question is where do people go. The railway is much better for travel into Exeter from Okehampton, with a choice of stations in the city. For anyone doing Bideford-Barnstaple, a train is handicapped by the station locations in both towns

The main flow would be Bideford to Exeter, as Barnstaple to Exeter is, rather than local journeys. A goodly proportion of commuter and student traffic from Barnstaple will currently comprise of Bidefordians. Okehampton station is not the most convenient either, but it has not deterred the punters.

 

[stuu]

The main flow would be Bideford to Exeter, as Barnstaple to Exeter is, rather than local journeys. A goodly proportion of commuter and student traffic from Barnstaple will currently comprise of Bidefordians. Okehampton station is not the most convenient either, but it has not deterred the punters.

The main flow that a railway would attract is to Exeter, but I would bet good money the vast majority of journeys people in Bideford do are to Barnstaple

 

[Ashley Hill]

The Bideford-Barnstaple road suffers considerable congestion during the day. Reopening the line would inevitably relieve this.
The only elephant in the room would be what to do about the Tarka Trail,the current use of the trackbed. Thankfully it’s Council owned but I can imagine the cycle lobby will be quite vocal.

 

[Cowley]

The Bideford-Barnstaple road suffers considerable congestion during the day. Reopening the line would inevitably relieve this.
The only elephant in the room would be what to do about the Tarka Trail,the current use of the trackbed. Thankfully it’s Council owned but I can imagine the cycle lobby will be quite vocal.

I guess a lot of it is on fairly flat ground though, so it would be feasible to build a new path slightly away from the track bed.

 

[30907]

I guess a lot of it is on fairly flat ground though, so it would be feasible to build a new path slightly away from the track bed.

The tunnel at Instow would need a solution (probably on-street as it's bypassed), the estuary bridge at Fremington Quay would be a more expensive problem. Not insoluble though!

 

[Mark J]

The Bideford-Barnstaple road suffers considerable congestion during the day. Reopening the line would inevitably relieve this.
The only elephant in the room would be what to do about the Tarka Trail,the current use of the trackbed. Thankfully it’s Council owned but I can imagine the cycle lobby will be quite vocal.

The cycle lobby are a strange bunch.

Anti car and schemes that are designed for car use.

At the same time, anti reopening railways on former routes.

They also fail to understand the greater public good. Nor not everyone has the luxury of the time, nor health to go cycling here, there and everywhere.

Of course, if we were talking of a reopening in London or connecting to London, the will and money would be found.

For elsewhere in the country, there is always this dragging of heels and endless red tape, that pushes up costs and time to get things moving.

 

[SynthD]

They also fail to understand the greater public good. Nor not everyone has the luxury of the time, nor health to go cycling here, there and everywhere.

Sure, ten commuters on a reopened line are more significant than ten weekly leisure cyclists on a former trackbed turned trail. But when the numbers aren’t so equal, how do you judge what is the greater good? Ten commuters for twenty cyclists and twenty ramblers?

 

[stuu]

The Bideford-Barnstaple road suffers considerable congestion during the day. Reopening the line would inevitably relieve this.
The only elephant in the room would be what to do about the Tarka Trail,the current use of the trackbed. Thankfully it’s Council owned but I can imagine the cycle lobby will be quite vocal.

And the somewhat significant elephant that is the source of the £200m to build it

 

[Irascible]

Some of the line to Bideford is now the SW coast path or the Tarka trail. Is there precedent of closing those popular paths for rail?

What defines a stronger case, what were the bus usage for the two relevant routes, when Okehampton station wasn’t open?

That's one of DCC's better moves - it's a trail precisely to preserve the trackbed. The area is flat & mostly empty, I can't imagine it'd be a major impediment. A more major impediment is it going round the coast when the road goes straight, but if it's really getting choked then I guess it's worth a look. As reopenings of completely closed lines go it has to be one of the easier ideas, pretty much everything possible was done to make it simple. If only there was a grant available to get new china clay wagons in the early 80s, there might have been trains to Bideford ( and even the odd one to Torrington ) for a decade or two

Spending money on better access to Barnstaple station would not be the worst thing to do, I feel.