citycat
Member
As above. I’m just curious why this service is a loco hauled IC service instead of an ICE? Is there a technical reason for it or are there some other restraints?
Anyone know?
Anyone know?
This is the fundamental reason - said HSL has spectacular gradients and can only be used by ICE sets.Another point is that there is a distinct shortage of multi-voltage ICE3 (BR 406) which leads to frequent cancellations on the Brussel/Amsterdam - Frankfurt services. Those have to one with 406s as those are the only stock to be certified for Belgium/the Netherlands and the high-speed-line from Siegburg to Frankfurt.
This is the fundamental reason - said HSL has spectacular gradients and can only be used by ICE sets.
Amsterdam-Berlin via Bentheim is due to get the new Talgo ECx sets.
Yes, all part of the Talgo package IIRCAren't they also planning dual-voltage locos to cut out the change at Bentheim?
...which ISTR they did a fair while back: there used to be an Interregio on the alternate hour to serve Stendal, and the Amsterdams were a fraction faster.Looks like if it could be ICE, you'd be talking in the region of a 6.5 hour journey time reducing to 6 hours from faster running Hannover <> Berlin.
Probably not a big enough difference to dent air demand, so you may as well slow the service a little and use it to pick up intermediate flows.
If the journey time could be cut to 4 hours 29 minutes as the article suggests, there should be enough demand for a twice daily ICE Sprinter service alongside the existing stopping service. The journey time would be equivalent to London - central belt services where rail has about a third of the market. Its currently little more than two regional stopping services put together and its unappealing to any other other than keen environmentalists, train enthusiasts and those with a fear of flying.
It’s got fiasco written all over it. Untried design, multi-system and multi country acceptance required from the start. Quite why they didn’t do what the Danes have done and draw down options from the existing framework agreement for Vectrons, I have no idea.The included loco's with the Talgo set. According to Talgo it's a multisystem locomotive capable of 230 km/h. According to Wikipedia it's a Talgo Tracva, but I've never seen that actually mentioned in the official press articles, so that speculation at best.
Googeling it suggest the travca has never been ordered by anybody yet.The included loco's with the Talgo set. According to Talgo it's a multisystem locomotive capable of 230 km/h. According to Wikipedia it's a Talgo Travca, but I've never seen that actually mentioned in the official press articles, so that's speculation at best.
Except that all the press releases state that the contract is for 23 sets including locomotive and the artists impressions show something that looks nothing like a Vectron.For all we know it could actually be a Siemens Vectron, even though a Bombardier locomotive would be more likely in my opinion, as Talgo has worked together with Bombardier before for producing some RENFE high speed trains, which features the same kind of coaches, for example the RENFE Class 130: RENFE Class 130 on Wikipedia
But I guess we'll have to wait and see for the first trains to actually see the daylight or until more information is released.
If the journey time could be cut to 4 hours 29 minutes as the article suggests, there should be enough demand for a twice daily ICE Sprinter service alongside the existing stopping service. The journey time would be equivalent to London - central belt services where rail has about a third of the market. Its currently little more than two regional stopping services put together and its unappealing to any other other than keen environmentalists, train enthusiasts and those with a fear of flying.
Actually, it is not that bad. I know many people who took the service all the way to Berlin (even from Amsterdam) and they are really not environmentalists or enthusiasts. For a very large part of the Netherlands, Schiphol airport is not that well situated. Travelling west to Schiphol and then flying east to Berlin is not faster for anyone in the east or north of the Netherlands already and the train is the only option next to driving 400 km.
The bodywork can be changed. Same with those RENFE high speed trains. Technically the electric part of the locomotives is based on the Traxx platform (if I remember correctly).Except that all the press releases state that the contract is for 23 sets including locomotive and the artists impressions show something that looks nothing like a Vectron.
Given the problems Bombardier have had in getting the AC version of the TRAXX 3 authorised for use into Switzerland on the DB double-decker sets, I'm not sure basing it on TRAXX would be that much of an improvement!The bodywork can be changed. Same with those RENFE high speed trains. Technically the electric part of the locomotives is based on the Traxx platform (if I remember correctly).
But like I said, I'd be surprised if it actually was a Vectron. Because of the earlier partnership with Bombardier I personally expect a Traxx-like product.
That makes sense for parts of Netherlands but I would be surprised if the rail market share for end to end journeys is in double figures. 6.5 hour train journeys usually do appallingly vs air travel. I intend to use the service at some point but primarily for environmental reasons.
There is a big difference in "based on" and the actual official Traxx locomotives in use. The AC3As far as I know, Bombardier Traxx is 160 km/h only, and certainly not 230.
It’s got fiasco written all over it. Untried design, multi-system and multi country acceptance required from the start.
I honestly don't see where the worry is. Talgo have an existing Travca demonstrator, and they effectively build locos as part of their high speed trains - and they're running in multiple countries. The locos are far from critical for the rest of the train service anyway, so it doesn't seem high risk?It’s got fiasco written all over it. Untried design, multi-system and multi country acceptance required from the start. Quite why they didn’t do what the Danes have done and draw down options from the existing framework agreement for Vectrons, I have no idea.
The problem here, I thought, was getting the sufficiently modern ETCS certified - as opposed to issues with the locos themselves?Given the problems Bombardier have had in getting the AC version of the TRAXX 3 authorised for use into Switzerland on the DB double-decker sets, I'm not sure basing it on TRAXX would be that much of an improvement!