Why I prefer to use a ticket office and obtain a physical ticket

[miklcct]

Also, you're confusing storing money and only having an electronic representation of it, with physically having the money.

Do you mean the distinction between an Oyster card (the card which stores money) and a contactless bank card (which just represents an account where the money is stored)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Again, you're assuming that people's experiences and understanding and analysis of the world, and their needs, are the same as yours, and that other people can't draw different conclusions by - for quite rational reasons - balancing factors differently. Some posters here seem to think that their preferences are purely logical and other people's are irrational. Preferences are not always arbitrary!

Facts are facts. The fact is that making any purchase in person is less secure than making it online. It amazes me just how many technophobes you see on the Forums!

(Incidentally, does any decision you take in your life - let's call it some preference - never "cost" other people in any way?)

I'm having trouble thinking of one where there's not societal benefit, e.g. it's not just me that benefits if I use a subsidised train service over the car.

Also, the matter of "cost" in a public service situation is quite complex - cost to whom? Those supplying the service? Those using it? Wider society? Etc. But now we're going off into wider political and philosophical areas that are beyond this immediate discussion.

Staffing a ticket office objectively costs more than having a TVM and online purchase instead.

 

[Deafdoggie]

There's nothing you mention here that I haven't already considered - I'm not stupid. But I have, looking at things in a rather deeper way, and balancing all the pros and cons, and based on my own experience, come to a different overall conclusion as to what's best in my situation. Why do you find it so alarming that someone makes a different judgement?

Genuine question, how do you reach the conclusion handling cash is safer than just carrying a card?

 

[ComUtoR]

Staffing a ticket office objectively costs more than having a TVM and online purchase instead.

TVM costs won't be an insignificant sum.

They still need to be bought/rented/leased etc. Emptied, stocked, maintained etc.

Ticket office staff are potentially being retained for customer service duties etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

TVM costs won't be an insignificant sum.

They still need to be bought/rented/leased etc. Emptied, stocked, maintained etc.

TVMs are cheaper than booking offices. If they weren't, London Underground etc would have kept booking offices.

Ticket office staff are potentially being retained for customer service duties etc.

Some of them.

 

[davews]

most modern phones have NFC

Just bought a new mid range Nokia, it doesn't have NFC.
Reading this with interest, never used e-tickets and far prefer a physical ticket which has never let me down. If there is a ticket office I will use it and long may they last....

 

[Deafdoggie]

I've been let down by paper tickets and ticket offices!
E-tickets don't get soggy in the rain, they don't stop working if you fold them, they don't fail to print properly and you're left with an illegible ticket that a ticket office won't change but a guard won't accept.
Ticket offices refuse to acknowledge the existence of some tickets, don't know how to issue some tickets and sometimes just don't want to issue some tickets!
Whilst NFC would be a good addition, normal e-tickets are still considerably better.

 

[tomuk]

E-tickets don't get soggy in the rain, they don't stop working if you fold them, they don't fail to print properly and you're left with an illegible ticket that a ticket office won't change but a guard won't accept.

You seem to be complaining about rubbish till roll tickets, nothing wrong with a modernised credit card sized ticket ie no mag stripe but with barcode.

 

[MalaiseForever]

After observing the spirited debate here, I decided to visit a ticket office to buy my ticket for the first time in about 5 years.

They were adamant the fare I wanted (and had been on travelling on for months) didn't exist. And I nearly missed the train as I then had to frantically buy one online.

As far as I am concerned, ticket offices are dead. Get the staff out and about the station actually helping passengers, instead of inconveniencing them.

 

[tomuk]

After observing the spirited debate here, I decided to visit a ticket office to buy my ticket for the first time in about 5 years.

They were adamant the fare I wanted (and had been on travelling on for months) didn't exist. And I nearly missed the train as I then had to frantically buy one online.

As far as I am concerned, ticket offices are dead. Get the staff out and about the station actually helping passengers, instead of inconveniencing them.

What was the ticket out of interest?

 

[Deafdoggie]

You seem to be complaining about rubbish till roll tickets, nothing wrong with a modernised credit card sized ticket ie no mag stripe but with barcode.

So basically an e-ticket you print yourself.

 

[MalaiseForever]

What was the ticket out of interest?

A very boring off peak travel card on LNWR from Crewe to Euston. Nothing exotic. And yes Crewe ticket office (if you're reading this), it is valid on the 0816!!!

 

[AM9]

A very boring off peak travel card on LNWR from Crewe to Euston. Nothing exotic. And yes Crewe ticket office (if you're reading this), it is valid on the 0816!!!

Of course TVMs and online sites always sell you whatever ticket you want?

 

[MalaiseForever]

Of course TVMs and online sites always sell you whatever ticket you want?

That's right yes. For me anyway. I have never not been able to buy what I wanted online (never used a TVM except for collection). Sadly, as shown by my previous post, it is not possible to get every ticket from a ticket office. I'm not going to try again.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A very boring off peak travel card on LNWR from Crewe to Euston. Nothing exotic. And yes Crewe ticket office (if you're reading this), it is valid on the 0816!!!

It is yes, arrival is after 1000. This is typical of my experience of booking offices, which is why I no longer use them unless totally unavoidable.

 

[tomuk]

A very boring off peak travel card on LNWR from Crewe to Euston. Nothing exotic. And yes Crewe ticket office (if you're reading this), it is valid on the 0816!!!

I assume you refering to the £50 Off Peak travelcard

Restriction Code: SK Restricted Days: Mondays-Fridays
Outward Travel
Not valid on trains timed to arrive at London Euston after 04:29 and before 10:00.

Not valid on any other journeys timed to depart after 04:29 and before 08:45.

Break of journey is not permitted on the outward portion except to change trains at an intermediate station or to access station facilities.

What does that clause mean?

 

[Runningaround]

Of course TVMs and online sites always sell you whatever ticket you want?

Will it refuse to sell you a perfectly valid ticket because it doesn't feel like it or be bothered to check?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Of course TVMs and online sites always sell you whatever ticket you want?

I've never known them not sell something a ticket office would, apart from ticket types they don't sell of course, such as rovers.
But a TVM or website will sell an off-peak correctly, or if it won't, neither will the ticket office!

 

[MalaiseForever]

It is yes, arrival is after 1000. This is typical of my experience of booking offices, which is why I no longer use them unless totally unavoidable.

What I found particularly annoying is that this train is always busy from Crewe, so you'd think they would sell a few ticket for this service. Or maybe they have scared off all the punters who would want to use the ticket office.

I assume you refering to the £50 Off Peak travelcard

Yes, that is correct. It is exceedingly good value with a railcard at £33. I even quoted the restriction code as I had checked it was valid through BRfares some time ago. It arrives into Euston at 1030, so ticket is valid on the 0816. It is really basic, not difficult at all.

 

[Deafdoggie]

What I found particularly annoying is that this train is always busy from Crewe, so you'd think they would sell a few ticket for this service. Or maybe they have scared off all the punters who would want to use the ticket office.

It shows how few people use the ticket office!

 

[Wallsendmag]

I personally think the convenience of e-tickets and the reliability of ITSO/smartcard tickets should be combined, with the ability to store tickets on your phone and tap them on barriers like you would with a smartcard. The technology is mainly there for it - most modern phones have NFC, the majority of barriers have smartcard readers and it would allow cross-London tickets to be issued on something other than CCST without any additional infrastructure or modifications to ticket barriers.

This can already be done up in Newcastle on the Tyne and Wear Metro with a digital Pop card (their Oyster-style PAYG card).

Only if you have an Android phone

 

[Busaholic]

Facts are facts. The fact is that making any purchase in person is less secure than making it online. It amazes me just how many technophobes you see on the Forums!

Going out into the big wild world is less secure than staying at home (fact.) Another fact is that making a purchase in person is, in the vast majority of cases, simpler and quicker than making one online, from the point where you come to pay for something. In any case, when you pay online you don't usually get what you've paid for there and then, or possibly ever! I well remember the time last year when I visited my local Sainsburys, to discover a queue of about 100 people waiting to use their remaining ATM as the payment systems in the store were down other than for cash purchases. All three supermarkets in the town, almost next door to each other, were affected for some hours, although Morrisons chose to close. Me? I parked up and whizzed round the store, proffering my cash at the check out and gave a smug look towards the queue at the ATM on the way out,where the machine was about to be emptied.

You are the opposite of a technophobe of course, an avid admirer of the Emperor's New Clothes. It is inconceivable that every so-called technological 'advance' is any such thing. Only scammers/fraudsters/general scumbags will delight in the stupidity with which we ditch tried and tested methods to embrace the new and shiny, which soon become tired and tarnished. Personally, I equate this country's direst of the dire economic state and prospects with this staggering lack of discernment in choosing quality over novelty.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I assume you refering to the £50 Off Peak travelcard

What does that clause mean?

Quite obviously it refers to journeys on trains not going to London Euston, the previous clause. Hardly rocket science, about one of the clearest restrictions I have seen.

You are the opposite of a technophobe of course, an avid admirer of the Emperor's New Clothes. It is inconceivable that every so-called technological 'advance' is any such thing. Only scammers/fraudsters/general scumbags will delight in the stupidity with which we ditch tried and tested methods to embrace the new and shiny, which soon become tired and tarnished. Personally, I equate this country's direst of the dire economic state and prospects with this staggering lack of discernment in choosing quality over novelty.

Whereas I, more rationally, attribute it to a combination of the economic suicide that was Brexit and a certain nasty virus that led to the economy basically being shut down for several months out of the last few years. Plus a little scourmish-ette in Eastern Europe.

Meanwhile, my record of receipt of service I would describe with the words "quality" or even "baseline competent" at booking offices, going right back to the 1990s, isn't a good one.

 

[tomuk]

Quite obviously it refers to journeys on trains not going to London Euston, the previous clause. Hardly rocket science, about one of the clearest restrictions I have seen.

So I can use the 0816 direct but if I wanted to go via Birmingham I have to wait until 8.45.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So I can use the 0816 direct but if I wanted to go via Birmingham I have to wait until 8.45.

Correct.

(Is this a bit silly? Yes, but it's not hard to understand it and it is by no means the only restriction code with this sort of issue).

 

[AlbertBeale]

Do you mean the distinction between an Oyster card (the card which stores money) and a contactless bank card (which just represents an account where the money is stored)?

Of course not - I'm comparing either/both of these (neither of which is physical cash in your hand/wallet/pocket where you can see it and keep track of it as you spend it) with, yes, physical cash. (As I said!) Some people find using the latter has many advantages. If they do, they're not wrong, they've just reached their own conclusion about what's best for them.

 

[Bread & cheese]

So I can use the 0816 direct but if I wanted to go via Birmingham I have to wait until 8.45.

Correct.

(Is this a bit silly? Yes, but it's not hard to understand it and it is by no means the only restriction code with this sort of issue).

Actually, if you want to go via Birmingham you can leave Crewe on the 06:52 or the 07:51.
TrainSplit confirms this.
The offpeak return from Crewe to London route West Midlands Trains has restriction code SK.
If you look up the unpublished restrictions at BR Fares, then there are no specific time restrictions for departing Crewe or Birmingham New Street. You just have to arrive in Euston no earlier than 10:00.

An example of a journey on West Midlands Trains where the 08:45 restriction would apply is Milton Keynes to Liverpool Line Street.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Actually, if you want to go via Birmingham you can leave Crewe on the 06:52 or the 07:51.
TrainSplit confirms this.
The offpeak return from Crewe to London route West Midlands Trains has restriction code SK.
If you look up the unpublished restrictions at BR Fares, then there are no specific time restrictions for departing Crewe or Birmingham New Street. You just have to arrive in Euston no earlier than 10:00.

An example of a journey on West Midlands Trains where the 08:45 restriction would apply is Milton Keynes to Liverpool Line Street.

Probably one of their unimplementable restrictions so the unpublished restrictions do work slightly differently. Goodness knows why they didn't split the code.

It should be noted that unpublished restrictions aren't what gives you your rights, the text does, however if an accredited site sells you an itinerary it is by default allowed when travelling in accordance with it.

 

[DelayRepay]

I presume that the main reason for the introduction of eTickets is cost - and transfering that cost from the railway to the passenger - but I'm sure that there are others, such as data information management, too. Some passengers might like that, which is great, carry one using them.

But the most succesful businesses will want to make as many of their products or services as easy to buy for as many people as possible. If the railway wants to encourage passengers to use eTickets that's fine, but it shouldn't alienate those who don't. Costs are not just a P&L line between Gross and Net Profit, some need to be seen as an investment, or an ability to maintain and/or increase turnover. It's all well and good when some say that most people now purchase eTickets, but what they and the railway will never be able to quantify is just how much business they either lose, or never gain in the first instance, and the reasons for that.

I can refer to my own experience in banking. We've lost a huge number of bank branches in recent years but many of the branches that closed were only serving a handful of customers each week. I remember one branch we closed which in a typical week completed less than 20 transactions - yet there was a petition and protest. Many of the people involved in the protest were not even our account holders.

It is simply not viable to keep a service channel (whether it's a bank, a shop or a ticket office) open and staffed when so few people are using it, and when alternative options exist and are used by the vast majority of customers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can refer to my own experience in banking. We've lost a huge number of bank branches in recent years but many of the branches that closed were only serving a handful of customers each week. I remember one branch we closed which in a typical week completed less than 20 transactions - yet there was a petition and protest. Many of the people involved in the protest were not even our account holders.

It is simply not viable to keep a service channel (whether it's a bank, a shop or a ticket office) open and staffed when so few people are using it, and when alternative options exist and are used by the vast majority of customers.

It astonishes me just how many people seem to think going to a physical bank to faff around is a good use of their time - and not only retired people, either.

"But I can't go to the bank"...well, I've not "gone to the bank" for about 22 years.

Sure, there's the issue about lonely older people not getting any social exposure, but surely volunteer social groups are the way to provide for this, not banking. The purpose of banks is to manage, "store" and lend money, not to provide a social experience. The purpose of the railway is to move people and freight from where they are to where they want to go, not to provide a social experience. Etc.