Why is rail travel in Cornwall so cheap ?

[eisenach]

We're staying in St.Ives, and went to Falmouth on the train yesterday, via St.Erth and Truro, and to Penzance today.
Compared with the 10 minute journey at home from Leominster to Hereford, the journeys were incredibly cheap, reliable and pleasant. The St.Ives shuttle, every 30 minutes is such a valuable service, and pretty well used.
I'm used to being disappointed with rail travel in England, but Cornwall seems to do pretty well.
Good stuff !

 

[Llanigraham]

I think the St Ives Shuttle is subsidised by Cornwall CC, to reduce the congestion there. Possibly the Falmouth as well.

 

[Anonymous10]

I think the St Ives Shuttle is subsidised by Cornwall CC, to reduce the congestion there. Possibly the Falmouth as well.

Wouldn't be surprised if in summer it makes a profit to be honest.

 

[eisenach]

I think the St Ives Shuttle is subsidised by Cornwall CC, to reduce the congestion there. Possibly the Falmouth as well.

If that's so, more places should do it !
To Falmouth, it was £13,80 return for two with Senior Railcards; today, £7,50 return to Penzance.
Cheaper and easier than the car, as it should be.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Cheaper and easier than the car, as it should be.

Correct. It just needs central government to get on board - no pun intended

 

[sor]

it can be even cheaper still if you're a resident, via the Devon and Cornwall railcard (no other eligibility criteria required). the rovers can also be good value.

that said it probably should be cheap given the lack of investment it receives

 

[Starmill]

Hereford to Leominster is about 14 miles for £7.30 at the cheapest return. St Ives to Falmouth is between 25 and 30 depending on exactly how you measure it so £10.50 does make for a cheaper comparison, but only slightly. But also, rarely will the train be quicker than using a car or taxi between north and south Cornwall, it's just too difficult for it to serve that market more quickly than today, at least connections are far better than they were! By comparison even with completely clear roads, TfW will easily match the time you can drive between Leominster and Hereford, albeit the frequency isn't as good as it could be because of the trade-offs with long-distance traffic. Often TfW will manage it 5 min or so quicker (assuming there's no breaking of speed limits going on).

 

[Anonymous10]

it can be even cheaper still if you're a resident, via the Devon and Cornwall railcard (no other eligibility criteria required). the rovers can also be good value.

that said it probably should be cheap given the lack of investment it receives

Coming from West Wales a service which is every 30 minutes and 50/50 modern stock and decent train lengths seems pretty good but I suppose its all relative.

 

[Starmill]

it can be even cheaper still if you're a resident, via the Devon and Cornwall railcard (no other eligibility criteria required). the rovers can also be good value.

that said it probably should be cheap given the lack of investment it receives

The railcard is a huge boon yes.

Coming from West Wales a service which is every 30 minutes and 50/50 modern stock and decent train lengths seems pretty good but I suppose its all relative.

It has stepped up in the past four years definitely. Previously the infrequency and non-standard times of the mainline meant connections were often too tight to make with any delay, or far too long, impacting journey times. Now things are much better.

 

[M7R]

We normally stay near dawlish Warren in the summer for our main holiday and have been all over Devon and Cornwall by train, with a rail card it’s great it’s so cheap compared to back home and the high priced midland main line.

I think we have pretty much covered all lines in south Devon from Exmouth west, and all of Cornwall now.

 

[Mojo]

Within the first few years of the Greater Western franchise, a number of fares, primarily those within Devon & Cornwall, were reduced to allow them to increase regulated fares on more popular routes elsewhere by the fares cap of RPI+5%, whilst maintaining the overall RPI+1% fares basket.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

For all their stock issues, GWR should be commended for the improvements in Cornwall on the mainline. One or two 2 carriage 150s and one HST (originally with 3 carriages taken up by First and Buffet) per two hours is now four IETs. It's bound to be far better for those travelling on the route, I'd think.

 

[A S Leib]

the rovers can also be good value.

If you're using it each day, the 8 in 15 day Devon and Cornwall one works out at ~£12 per day for a ticket covering Tiverton to Penzance without a railcard, which is excellent value for a 300-mile (by rail) round trip which is £28 for an off-peak day return. I doubt many people would make a 3½ hour trip each way eight times in two weeks, but it's definitely cheap enough.

 

[Llandudno]

Perhaps the fares in Cornwall are about right and the fares elsewhere in the country are too expensive…?

 

[Russel]

It's not cheap, the rest of the country is just overpriced.

Even before the cost of living crisis, rail travel has been out of reach for many low income households, Birmingham to Bristol off peak return, £68 for one person, if it's a couple traveling, that's £136, I could drive it in my average MPG car that can carry 5 people for £40 in petrol there and back... rail travel in many areas of the UK is simply a rip off.

 

[rmt4ever]

Hereford to Leominster is about 14 miles for £7.30 at the cheapest return. St Ives to Falmouth is between 25 and 30 depending on exactly how you measure it so £10.50 does make for a cheaper comparison, but only slightly. But also, rarely will the train be quicker than using a car or taxi between north and south Cornwall, it's just too difficult for it to serve that market more quickly than today, at least connections are far better than they were! By comparison even with completely clear roads, TfW will easily match the time you can drive between Leominster and Hereford, albeit the frequency isn't as good as it could be because of the trade-offs with long-distance traffic. Often TfW will manage it 5 min or so quicker (assuming there's no breaking of speed limits going on).

And in London its even more of a rip off, Richmond to Stratford via West Hampstead (direct train) around 15 miles, £13.40 for the cheapest return!

 

[class26]

It's not cheap, the rest of the country is just overpriced.

Even before the cost of living crisis, rail travel has been out of reach for many low income households, Birmingham to Bristol off peak return, £68 for one person, if it's a couple traveling, that's £136, I could drive it in my average MPG car that can carry 5 people for £40 in petrol there and back... rail travel in many areas of the UK is simply a rip off.

why do people only ever include the fuel costs when calculating a car journey ? There are numerous additional costs involved even if having 5 people in the said car would make it cheaper than rail .

 

[JonathanH]

And in London its even more of a rip off, Richmond to Stratford via West Hampstead (direct train) around 15 miles, £13.40 for the cheapest return!

That is not true in a practical sense. Passengers use Oyster and Contactless. The cheapest return from Richmond to Stratford is £3.80, and a peak return is £5.60. The paper ticket is not there to be bought.

Once PAYG is available in Cornwall, there will no doubt be a corresponding switch in how people pay for travel.

 

[jon0844]

It's not cheap, the rest of the country is just overpriced.

Even before the cost of living crisis, rail travel has been out of reach for many low income households, Birmingham to Bristol off peak return, £68 for one person, if it's a couple traveling, that's £136, I could drive it in my average MPG car that can carry 5 people for £40 in petrol there and back... rail travel in many areas of the UK is simply a rip off.

The only problem there is you likely need a pretty big car for 5 people on a long trip, for comfort reasons, and to have any room for their luggage.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

why do people only ever include the fuel costs when calculating a car journey ? There are numerous additional costs involved even if having 5 people in the said car would make it cheaper than rail .

Because they view the rest of the costs as inconsequential? If you buy a car and insure it, it doesn’t really matter how many miles you do, the cost is the same throughout the year, so in a sense, you get better value the more you use it… I agree people rarely factor in services, tyres etc, but so many new cars these days come with a number of “free” services people may just not think about it.

The only problem there is you likely need a pretty big car for 5 people on a long trip, for comfort reasons, and to have any room for their luggage.

Yes, and it’s still cheaper using it than the train, and we have the opportunity to stop/divert if we choose to.

My last trip with the family (2021) was with Avanti to London, and despite booking early and off peak was still knocking on for £600 for two adults and three kids, with a railcard. We couldn’t get reservations together or find space in the unreserved coach, so ended up spread through the train with the kids sat next to random strangers, one of whom I’d like to apologise to unreservedly as my 5 year old chattered to him nonstop from Carlisle to Euston.

In the car, we could have sat together, so the train definitely wins there

In terms of fuel, maybe £150 would have done it, so that still leaves £450 to chip away at service/tyres/insurance/parking (which would have been free at our hotel anyways).

To be fair, it’s not much better for short journeys either - five of us to Carlisle is around £40, fuel would be a tenner, parking a few quid, so plenty left for all the other on costs. As a result, we use the train once in a while to keep the kids entertained, but the majority of our transport is in the car.

(When I’m away for work, I’ll use the train in preference, as someone else is paying and I can sit and watch the world go by!)

 

[Bletchleyite]

why do people only ever include the fuel costs when calculating a car journey ? There are numerous additional costs involved even if having 5 people in the said car would make it cheaper than rail .

Because most other costs are fixed or close to it, and as such they are more like a Railcard than a fare - they are the cost of having a car that mostly don't vary based on how far you drive it.

I have never known anyone account all car costs to a per mile rate other than people who don't own a car and have an agenda against them.

 

[trebor79]

Within the first few years of the Greater Western franchise, a number of fares, primarily those within Devon & Cornwall, were reduced to allow them to increase regulated fares on more popular routes elsewhere by the fares cap of RPI+5%, whilst maintaining the overall RPI+1% fares basket.

That explains why many of GWRs fares are outrageously expensive. We were visiting my parents when the lived near Marlborough a few years ago, and decided to take the kids to Didcot Railway Centre. "Oh we'll get the train from Swindon, that'll be nice" said I. Then I looked at the fares. Something like £140 for an off peak return for the 4 adults and 2 kids.
Needless to say, we took 2 cars and parked at Didcot station car park.

 

[robert thomas]

Because most other costs are fixed or close to it, and as such they are more like a Railcard than a fare - they are the cost of having a car that mostly don't vary based on how far you drive it.

I have never known anyone account all car costs to a per mile rate other than people who don't own a car and have an agenda against them.

What about those claiming expenses from an employer?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What about those claiming expenses from an employer?

The 45p/mile rate is indeed used to have the employer pay a share of ownership costs. But that's not individuals, that's different. It's more a comparator to hiring a car (which some employers prefer).

 

[al78]

why do people only ever include the fuel costs when calculating a car journey ? There are numerous additional costs involved even if having 5 people in the said car would make it cheaper than rail .

Because if it comes to a financial decision over which mode of transport to use, it it the tangible costs that matter and the tangible cost of driving is the cost of fuel. Servicing/MOT/VED/insurance are (mostly) fixed costs associated with owning a car and are only relevant for comparison with public transport if the financial decision is do I go car free and use public transport for moderate to long journeys, or do I own a car and use it for those journeys. People who advocate public transport like to throw around the fixed costs of motoring because they know that public transport has zero chance of competing with the private car on an individual journey tangible cost basis, so they try to claim the fixed costs matter in an attempt to make a public transport journey compare favourably.

The 45p/mile rate is indeed used to have the employer pay a share of ownership costs. But that's not individuals, that's different. It's more a comparator to hiring a car (which some employers prefer).

I've always thought that claim entitlement is over the top. If it was realistic it would mean the cost of me driving to visit family (a 480 mile round trip) would be £216. In reality it consumes about one tank of fuel at around £70. People who claim expenses for driving are making a profit, unlike those who use public transport where receipts have to be handed in to claim back expenses.

 

[trebor79]

[45p HMRC mileage rate]
I've always thought that claim entitlement is over the top. If it was realistic it would mean the cost of me driving to visit family (a 480 mile round trip) would be £216. In reality it consumes about one tank of fuel at around £70. People who claim expenses for driving are making a profit, unlike those who use public transport where receipts have to be handed in to claim back expenses.

You're only allowed to claim 45p for the first 10,000 miles per annum, anything over that you are only allowed to claim 25p.

I think it's about right. It's not just fuel, it's meant to cover maintenance, tyres, insurance, depreciation etc. Remember you are using your own personal vehicle for business purposes.
Now I drive a Tesla which if I charge at home costs less than 2p per mile in electricity. So I do indeed make a whacking profit so much so that I only claim 25p from my employer as I'd rather have a tax credit (on the different between 45p and 25p for 10,000 miles) as that offsets all the child benefit I have to pay back every year.
But then, the Tesla was an expensive car to buy, and I wouldn't have bought it if this job didn't require me to do perhaps 50,000 miles a year. So is it really a profit??

PCP and lease agreements for example typically have an excess mileage rate of perhaps 12p/mile (depending upon the car etc). So lets say a mile is 12p depreciation. Now your 480 mile round trip costs £70 for fuel plus £57.60 depreciation.
Lets say you car needs a service every 10,000 miles. What's that at a main dealer? £250? so 2.5p a mile * 480 = £12.
Tyres. I budget 2p a mile. That's another £9.60.

So your 480 mile round trip has actually cost you £149.20. That's before we consider the higher insurance costs for insuring for business miles, incidental stuff like oil, washer fluid etc. And you've paid all of this cost out of income that you've paid tax on.
45p is about right.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Cornwall is overpriced in many other aspects of life though, and was recently deemed one of the poorest areas in the EU by wage median. So good that trains are cheap there (and much nicer than they used to be)

 

[class26]

Because if it comes to a financial decision over which mode of transport to use, it it the tangible costs that matter and the tangible cost of driving is the cost of fuel. Servicing/MOT/VED/insurance are (mostly) fixed costs associated with owning a car and are only relevant for comparison with public transport if the financial decision is do I go car free and use public transport for moderate to long journeys, or do I own a car and use it for those journeys. People who advocate public transport like to throw around the fixed costs of motoring because they know that public transport has zero chance of competing with the private car on an individual journey tangible cost basis, so they try to claim the fixed costs matter in an attempt to make a public transport journey compare favourably.


I've always thought that claim entitlement is over the top. If it was realistic it would mean the cost of me driving to visit family (a 480 mile round trip) would be £216. In reality it consumes about one tank of fuel at around £70. People who claim expenses for driving are making a profit, unlike those who use public transport where receipts have to be handed in to claim back expenses.

Car parking charges are also a significant cost to many car journies

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've always thought that claim entitlement is over the top. If it was realistic it would mean the cost of me driving to visit family (a 480 mile round trip) would be £216. In reality it consumes about one tank of fuel at around £70. People who claim expenses for driving are making a profit, unlike those who use public transport where receipts have to be handed in to claim back expenses.

It's not a profit. It's a contribution towards the full cost of car ownership (including the purchase), because the alternative is to provide either a company vehicle or a hire car, both of which would leave the employer with the full cost of provision.

If you drive some sort of banger (low purchase cost) or an EV (low fuel cost) then you might get a small profit, though, it's based around an average family car, say a 3-year-old Focus hatch.

 

[A S Leib]

Cornwall is overpriced in many other aspects of life though, and was recently deemed one of the poorest areas in the EU by wage median. So good that trains are cheap there (and much nicer than they used to be)

Similarly, taking examples of roughly an hour's journey, the £8.80 anytime day return from Merthyr Tydfil to Cardiff Central's quite a bit below the £15.40 for Epsom Downs to Victoria and back in the peaks with contactless / Oyster.