Will you let me off a few pence?

[trentside]

This is one for other staff, mainly - but would be interested to hear other people's views as well.

As we approach Christmas I seem to be getting a big increase in people asking me to let them off part of their fare, e.g. 5p, 10p, 50p. Having heard colleagues in similar situations, some of them will say ok and others will refuse - when it's a few pence, It's late and the person seems genuine I'm not inclined to be petty and refuse but if they've been difficult then it's a always a no! What do other people do in this situation - I'm curious as to other people's attitudes!

 

[barrykas]

Call me mean if you like, but I'm in the refusal camp, as too great a loss (or surplus) over the course of a period results in a meeting with tea and no biscuits.

 

[maniacmartin]

I wonder if any guards would be willing to issue a UFN for the 5p or 10p etc

 

[Monty]

Call me mean if you like, but I'm in the refusal camp, as too great a loss (or surplus) over the course of a period results in a meeting with tea and no biscuits.

I in this camp too I'm afraid, I know it's peanuts in real terms but if you start showing losses in your takings too much it could land you in a bit of hot water.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I in this camp too I'm afraid, I know it's peanuts in real terms but if you start showing losses in your takings too much it could land you in a bit of hot water.

I let them off and I have made it clear to my management who support me fully, we are not talking pounds here even over a week and will not put myself in a conflict situation for 10 pence

 

[trentside]

I in this camp too I'm afraid, I know it's peanuts in real terms but if you start showing losses in your takings too much it could land you in a bit of hot water.

That's always my concern in this situation - it may only be 10p but the figures add up and at the end of the accounting period it could easily be pounds. I'm the type of person who likes to balance at the end of the day, and I usually do - so being asked to put my figures out isn't something I like.

I'm with ANorthernGuard though - I'd rather avoid conflict if possible, so it's kind of a rock and a hard place situation. I only asked as it seems everyone takes a different approach - I'm sure the official line is a no, but it seems some colleagues do this sort of thing occasionally as a goodwill gesture!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

As a general rule I don't, it's more hassle then it is worth. However, on rare occasions I have 'loaned' money to a regular passenger, to cover a trip, making it clear they are to pay back the next day. I have not been let down yet and one time I was even given a box of chocs to say thanks.

 

[Lrd]

I'm not on the trains but it's always a no from me. They can't expect to go round in life trying to undercut everyone.

 

[12CSVT]

I wonder if any guards would be willing to issue a UFN for the 5p or 10p etc

Northern have prosecuted for these sorts of amounts.

On the other hand, Scotrail's policy seems to be to sack guards who enforce ticket regulations, as seen here.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=74853

 

[wintonian]

I'm not on the trains but it's always a no from me. They can't expect to go round in life trying to undercut everyone.

At the prices you charge I think its perfectly reasonable to want a discount.

£3 something for a sausage roll and all that

 

[GadgetMan]

In my experience these situations are usually found on the last trains of the night. So RPIs and Ticket barriers are not in the equation on my part of the network.

We don't do UFN for part payment, so you either take the money they have at the time or go down the route of letting them keep hold of that and wasting time on verifying details and completing a UFN which more than likely wont be paid.

There is no reason to not balance up at the end of shift. If they have an amount on them that you know covers the full price of a ticket between 2 stations on your route then issue that for the full amount, failing that apply a Railcard discount or make it a child ticket.

If its an amount that cannot be accounted for on a full priced ticket then issue the ticket as an excess showing the amount they hand over.

 

[Lrd]

£3 something for a sausage roll and all that

£2.85 for a freshly cooked sausage roll.

Even more for the rubbish Ginsters ones though.

 

[spacehopper]

Given the time of year there is a marked increase in pax saying "will you let me off because its christmas". Obviously because it is christmas NRCOC condition 2 no longer applies...

If your genuine and it is only 5p / 10p rather than hassle of UFN or part payment paper work, begging from other pax or getting beaten up then easiest way I find to deal with it is to issue a fare from next stop or issue a ticket for same value but a different journey. Punters paid all or as close possible the railway gets the revenue.

All losses are logged and mostly have to be accounted for. On my last one to one I had losses of about £2 which was fake coins or money from abroad.

 

[richw]

I'd never let anyone off a few pence in retail. When I was in retail the company would allow a cash discrepancy of £1.50 before discipline. Let a few people off 5p or 10p and you could be looking at a warning.

 

[GadgetMan]

I'd never let anyone off a few pence in retail. When I was in retail the company would allow a cash discrepancy of £1.50 before discipline. Let a few people off 5p or 10p and you could be looking at a warning.

What do u retail though? There's a massive difference in retailing an actual item you can withhold until correct payment is made and rail fares where the person in question is already on the train making the journey before they are challenged.

 

[richw]

What do u retail though? There's a massive difference in retailing an actual item you can withhold until correct payment is made and rail fares where the person in question is already on the train making the journey before they are challenged.

I'm not in retail anymore, I was in a fashion shop and also a fast food restaurant. I would avoid returning to work at either in all honesty

 

[Mex]

Northern have prosecuted for these sorts of amounts.

On the other hand, Scotrail's policy seems to be to sack guards who enforce ticket regulations, as seen here.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=74853

One instance is not a policy. And if I may quote Michael 769 from yesterday afternoon:

Reality is that no-one on here knows what happened neither during the incident nor in the subsequent disciplinary hearings, and have no idea of the rights and wrongs of the case.

 

[46100ROYALSCOT]

I don’t know if all TOC’s accept Visa type credit cards for ticket purchase but if they do then for a majority of tickets I would have thought the train company would actually MAKE MORE MONEY by “discounting a few coppers” rather than loose seeing that the card companies charge commission for the use of cards, typically 3 – 4 %. I know what I would do – take the cash every time.

 

[transmanche]

I don’t know if all TOC’s accept Visa type credit cards for ticket purchase but if they do then for a majority of tickets I would have thought the train company would actually MAKE MORE MONEY by “discounting a few coppers” rather than loose seeing that the card companies charge commission for the use of cards, typically 3 – 4 %. I know what I would do – take the cash every time.

Although you haven't factored into that the cost of handling the cash: the admin, the staff time of counting and checking it, the cost of storing and transporting it. It all mounts up - especially when dealing with large amounts of coin.

So you might find that the TOC would actually prefer to take credit card payments.

 

[richw]

Although you haven't factored into that the cost of handling the cash: the admin, the staff time of counting and checking it, the cost of storing and transporting it. It all mounts up - especially when dealing with large amounts of coin.

So you might find that the TOC would actually prefer to take credit card payments.

Loomis used to charge us a 5% collection charge, this alone is greater than the CC handling charge which was on average 2.5%.
This is before you've paid a staff member to cash up the float. Depending how much cash has been taken can be 5-10 minutes, plus time taken to register the cash on any computer systems if applicable. so say 10 minutes staff labour per float to cash, if the company requires a witness to see the float cashed up your talking 20 mins labour, which is just over £2 if your paying minimum wage to the person counting the float and their witness, so in all reality more.
With a credit card we simply have a 2.5% charge, so considerably cheaper in all reality.

 

[maniacmartin]

When paying on-train, its much more fiddly with card than cash, so the transaction (in my experience) takes longer and the guard might not be able to get around to selling as many tickets though.

 

[Roverman]

Its not a nice situation to be put into, the people who ask this kind of question invariably can't or won't see the bigger picture, and in my experience tend to never learn if someone is always bailing them out. Theres also the 'witness' factor, imagine if you said yes to Person A and Person B tweeted this to your employer? Would you be sacked before you even got to the end of the line?

 

[Lrd]

Its not a nice situation to be put into, the people who ask this kind of question invariably can't or won't see the bigger picture, and in my experience tend to never learn if someone is always bailing them out. Theres also the 'witness' factor, imagine if you said yes to Person A and Person B tweeted this to your employer? Would you be sacked before you even got to the end of the line?

Also, person B may ask to be let off as well, then so will person C, you can't say no because you let person A off.

 

[185]

Virgin's Avantix point is 99p per day maximum amount cash in down before a please explain is sent, which equates to a kit kat, coffee from the vending machine and Daily Star.

Which, over many years could also pay for a Ford Sierra or two.

Allegedly. :P

 

[richw]

Virgin's Avantix point is 99p per day maximum amount cash in down before a please explain is sent, which equates to a kit kat, coffee from the vending machine and Daily Star.

Which, over many years could also pay for a Ford Sierra or two.

Allegedly. :P

1 days worth would be more than I'd pay for a Ford Sierra,

 

[dvboy]

The cheek of some people.

Slightly related, a passenger was begging on a Birmingham-Edinburgh train the other week well before it was due to depart, he told one carriage he only needed £2 more to get to Lancaster and he got it. He then got off the train, and got back on further down where I had walked through the train, and told passengers there the same story. I told him I'd seen him in the other carriage telling the same story and that if he didn't get off the train I'd call someone who would get him off the train. He got off and disappeared up the escalator. I'd put money on him never intending to go to Lancaster in the first place.

 

[Roverman]

1 days worth would be more than I'd pay for a Ford Sierra,

Can't remember the last time I even saw one, always preferred the Cavalier myself!

 

[GadgetMan]

The cheek of some people.

Slightly related, a passenger was begging on a Birmingham-Edinburgh train the other week well before it was due to depart, he told one carriage he only needed £2 more to get to Lancaster and he got it. He then got off the train, and got back on further down where I had walked through the train, and told passengers there the same story. I told him I'd seen him in the other carriage telling the same story and that if he didn't get off the train I'd call someone who would get him off the train. He got off and disappeared up the escalator. I'd put money on him never intending to go to Lancaster in the first place.

Came across a bloke on Thursday on the concourse at New Street claiming he just needed another £5 to have enough money for ticket to Edinburgh.

His face was a picture when I showed him my Avantix and said give me the money you've got and I'll print you a ticket to Edinburgh and let you off the £5 shortfall. I was wearing my own non-uniform jacket so he wouldn't have recognised me as staff.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Bus related, but it's always annoying when you get asked by a kid to get let off because they've only got 80p, despite the bags from Topman, River Island, Foot Asylum etc and the McMilkshake in their hand.

 

[wintonian]

Bus related, but it's always annoying when you get asked by a kid to get let off because they've only got 80p, despite the bags from Topman, River Island, Foot Asylum etc and the McMilkshake in their hand.

I expect the usual taxi is on strike.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2