WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation

[Techniquest]

Roughly 10 units are WMR's. That's what all the runs are for, millage accumulation for handover.

I'm very much not an expert in this sort of thing, so how does that work exactly? So many miles of Fault Free Running before WMR accept them?

Going to take a while by the looks of it, Tyseley to Great Malvern is hardly a long way!

Until they achieve required mileage, I assume they are still officially CAF's trains? Once they get to handover to WMR, I assume normally it would be a case of driver training. Something to do with cab layout or DOO or similar isn't it at least partly holding things back?

 

[railphotoghw]

Do we know if these are just testing runs or are they taking the opportunity to include driver training.

i believe today's run was sectional running time checks.

Going to take a while by the looks of it, Tyseley to Great Malvern is hardly a long way!

They have been testing the 196s mainly on the line between Tyseley and Stratford-Upon-Avon on weekdays and on the WCML between Crewe and Nuneaton overnight!

 

[Techniquest]

i believe today's run was sectional running time checks.

They have been testing the 196s mainly on the line between Tyseley and Stratford-Upon-Avon on weekdays and on the WCML between Crewe and Nuneaton overnight!

Ah fair enough, I'm clearly out of touch then! Thanks for the correction

 

[43102EMR]

Roughly 10 units are WMR's. That's what all the runs are for, millage accumulation for handover.

Yep I know how it works - just wanted to know if any had been officially handed over from GBRF to WMR following them. Thanks

 

[TRAX]

Yep I know how it works - just wanted to know if any had been officially handed over from GBRF to WMR following them. Thanks

I believe @172007 has answered that question. He says 10 units have been transferred to WMR, if I got his message right.

 

[Roger B]

I believe @172007 has answered that question. He says 10 units have been transferred to WMR, if I got his message right.

Can anyone provide a list of which units have been accepted by WMR - preferably with acceptance dates. Many thanks

 

[newtownmgr]

Roughly 10 units are WMR's. That's what all the runs are for, millage accumulation for handover.

Believe yesterdays was for platform stopping points. 101 has completed its mileage accumulation & is one of the sets already handed over to WMT.

Yep I know how it works - just wanted to know if any had been officially handed over from GBRF to WMR following them. Thanks

None of the sets are GBRF’s to hand over. The vast majority of mileage accumulation is done in house with GBRF subcontracted by CAF/WMT for the Crewe runs i believe. When ready the sets are handed over from CAF to WMT

 

[bussnapperwm]

Out of curiosity, what's the toilet provision on these likely to be (I.e. Will it be just 1 for 2 car, 1 for a 4 car? Or is the 4 car units getting an additional facility?)

 

[newtownmgr]

Out of curiosity, what's the toilet provision on these likely to be (I.e. Will it be just 1 for 2 car, 1 for a 4 car? Or is the 4 car units getting an additional facility?)

1 PRM compliant on a 2 car, 1 PRM compliant & 1 standard on a 4 car. The standard 1 on a 4 car is in one of the intermediate vehicles.

 

[Phillipimo]

New British train fleets to enter service two years late

Two new British fleets that were due to enter traffic in 2020 will start carrying passengers from next year, two years later than planned.

www.railjournal.com

“The delayed introduction of both fleets is down to the impact of Covid-19, both on the manufacturing and testing processes and also on driver training,” says WMT spokesman, Mr Andrew McGill.

Franchise documents for WMT state that 14 four-car DMUs would begin to enter traffic from January 5 2020, with the two-car DMUs entering service from May 3 2020. The final trains were due to begin passenger operation on June 28 2020 and August 23 2020, respectively. Although 17 of the 26 DMUs have been delivered by CAF and the British regulator the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) authorised the trains for service on August 26 2020, not one has yet carried a passenger.

“We are expecting the first class 196 to enter passenger service in the middle of next year on the Birmingham – Shrewsbury line,” McGill says. “The first units in traffic are expected to be four-cars.”

 

[43096]

New British train fleets to enter service two years late

Two new British fleets that were due to enter traffic in 2020 will start carrying passengers from next year, two years later than planned.

www.railjournal.com

Interesting to note that the planned in service date for the first DMUs was January 2020, which was before Covid restrictions started, yet the current standard business catch-all excuse of Covid is being trotted out. Far closer to the truth is that CAF are a poor manufacturer. Likewise, the same applies to the dross that Derby are building and are incapable of getting into service anywhere close to on time.

 

[superkev]

New British train fleets to enter service two years late

Two new British fleets that were due to enter traffic in 2020 will start carrying passengers from next year, two years later than planned.

www.railjournal.com

Glad I dont have to wait 2 years to use my new comfy, reliable car. What a shambles the uk rail industry is.
If I was hm gov I wouldn't invest a penny in anything which takes years to do at inflated costs whic other countries often seem to manage in a few weeks.
Not sure about WMT but when Northern introduced there new trains a think a lot of the delay may have been due to them using the steam age link system where all drivers in a link had to be trained.
If drivers were concentrated on only the route where the new trains where introduced only a handfull would need training so speeding thing up. Prob bogged down in red tape and unions.
K

 

[sd0733]

If drivers were concentrated on only the route where the new trains where introduced only a handfull would need training so speeding thing up. Prob bogged down in red tape and unions.
K

That's pretty much exactly how Shrewsbury is, they will only work 196s and the route to Brum and still none out.

 

[newtownmgr]

To concentrate drivers & work on a route to a group of drivers, you would need something like, let’s say a steam age link system.

That's pretty much exactly how Shrewsbury is, they will only work 196s and the route to Brum and still none out.

None out because they still have issues with the units & no training package has been put in place yet due to the issues.

Glad I dont have to wait 2 years to use my new comfy, reliable car. What a shambles the uk rail industry is.
If I was hm gov I wouldn't invest a penny in anything which takes years to do at inflated costs whic other countries often seem to manage in a few weeks.
Not sure about WMT but when Northern introduced there new trains a think a lot of the delay may have been due to them using the steam age link system where all drivers in a link had to be trained.
If drivers were concentrated on only the route where the new trains where introduced only a handfull would need training so speeding thing up. Prob bogged down in red tape and unions.
K

Maybe if HM Government hadn’t fragmented the railway in the way they did we wouldn’t have these problems. As regards waiting for your brand new car. Currently a 6/7 month delay due to Covid for new cars, covid has also contributed to the delay to these units. Also your nice new car is tested fully by the manufacturer before they even go into full production & on sale. Don’t have that luxury with new trains. Easy to criticise & make stupid comments when you don’t now the full facts. Many issues with these units, mainly down to the manufacturer.

 

[py_megapixel]

Easy to criticise & make stupid comments when you don’t now the full facts. Many issues with these units, mainly down to the manufacturer.

The problem is that the average member of the public doesn't "now [sic] the full facts". They go to their Volkswagen dealer and order a Golf, they can drive off in it as soon as it arrives - so it is logical to wonder why, then, the train is still some falling apart piece of junk from the 1980s despite the fact they are paying through the nose to travel on it and despite years of promises of new trains.

The fact of the matter is that if the railway wants to compete with private car travel, or even, frankly, with the bus industry, it cannot be complacent with constant failure to deliver on deadlines, or with any of the other passenger-unfriendly nonsense it engages in - no "ifs" or "buts".

 

[the sniper]

The problem is that the average member of the public doesn't "now [sic] the full facts".

But on here they often seem to know it's the unions fault, funnily enough. All such jabs/demonstrations of ignorance do is put off people contributing who might know the actual answers.

 

[newtownmgr]

But on here they often seem to know it's the unions fault, funnily enough. All such jabs/demonstrations of ignorance do is put off people contributing who might know the actual answers.

Correct.

 

[Sprinter107]

The problem is that the average member of the public doesn't "now [sic] the full facts". They go to their Volkswagen dealer and order a Golf, they can drive off in it as soon as it arrives - so it is logical to wonder why, then, the train is still some falling apart piece of junk from the 1980s despite the fact they are paying through the nose to travel on it and despite years of promises of new trains.

The fact of the matter is that if the railway wants to compete with private car travel, or even, frankly, with the bus industry, it cannot be complacent with constant failure to deliver on deadlines, or with any of the other passenger-unfriendly nonsense it engages in - no "ifs" or "buts".

But the passengers on lines waiting for the 196s to come on stream are not travelling on "some falling apart piece of junk from the 1980s", theyre either travelling on 170s from 1999 or 2000, and 172s dating from 2011.

 

[LowLevel]

But the passengers on lines waiting for the 196s to come on stream are not travelling on "some falling apart piece of junk from the 1980s", theyre either travelling on 170s from 1999 or 2000, and 172s dating from 2011.

Not so for the intending recipients of the 170s though with their mostly 33/34 year old 156s whose cascade gets pushed back ever further

If we are going to try and see the railway as a bigger picture it all counts.

 

[Mollman]

Not so for the intending recipients of the 170s though with their mostly 33/34 year old 156s whose cascade gets pushed back ever further

If we are going to try and see the railway as a bigger picture it all counts.

You mean the 156s which are going to Northern, does that mean Northern are the bottom of the pile or they are actually still decent trains?

 

[Rhydgaled]

You mean the 156s which are going to Northern, does that mean Northern are the bottom of the pile or they are actually still decent trains?

I don't know what they're like mechanically, but when I used EMT 156s a number of years ago (probably about 5 now?) I thought them quite decent from a passenger's point of view, at least compared to the 150s and 153s I'm used to seeing in Pembrokeshire

 

[AlexNL]

Interesting to note that the planned in service date for the first DMUs was January 2020, which was before Covid restrictions started, yet the current standard business catch-all excuse of Covid is being trotted out. Far closer to the truth is that CAF are a poor manufacturer.

It's probably a bit of both.

Planned to go into service in January 2020, then something happened/was uncovered which pushed the introduction date back by a few months. The amount of employees is finite and they also have other work, a small delay in one place can lead to a long delay as the employees are working on other things. E.g. if GBRf get hired by CAF and by Hitachi to do test runs, GBRf can't exactly tell Hitachi "Sorry, we can't supply test drivers at the moment despite promising to, as we have them work on a delayed CAF project."

Then covid kicked off, borders got closed (good luck getting a CAF engineer from Spain to the Midlands), social distancing restrictions put in place, loss of workforce due to illness, et cetera. It quickly adds up.

 

[Neptune]

Not sure about WMT but when Northern introduced there new trains a think a lot of the delay may have been due to them using the steam age link system where all drivers in a link had to be trained.
If drivers were concentrated on only the route where the new trains where introduced only a handfull would need training so speeding thing up. Prob bogged down in red tape and unions.
K

What a load of rubbish. The trains entered service after their testing was complete, nothing to do with the link system which is only at a few depots anyway. Typical blame the staff/unions comment when you don’t know the facts.

 

[superkev]

What a load of rubbish. The trains entered service after their testing was complete, nothing to do with the link system which is only at a few depots anyway. Typical blame the staff/unions comment when you don’t know the facts.

The point I was making, perhaps rather badly, was if you introduce new trains on a route it would be quicker to train drivers if they were dedicated to that route rather than a whole link which often emcompasses many routes.
Off topic but do TOCs still use the link system where seniority often gain longer/more desirable routes.
K

 

[warwickshire]

Another issue is on the north Warwickshire line have request stops.
Such as wood end. On the Stratford upon avon line.
Apparently 196 cannot do these on this line due to issues with the infrastructure.
Also have been told especially this line via various local sources and wmr staff I know issues have also emerged with the operation off the door deselect system on the train especially identical to the caf system on the train.
So 196 will appear first on the Shrewsbury as mentioned.
Also there has been issues with cab doors.

 

[warwickshire]

Also same issues identical to the northern 195 units are emerging as well.

 

[the sniper]

The point I was making, perhaps rather badly, was if you introduce new trains on a route it would be quicker to train drivers if they were dedicated to that route rather than a whole link which often emcompasses many routes.

For which you'd need a dedicated link. Or you could call that group of drivers something else, if you insist. But it'd still be a link and it's not without issues.

Going by the Drivers route knowledge thread:

Shrewsbury
Traction:
170, 196 training to start imminently
Routes:
Shrewsbury - Birmingham New Street (direct and via Bescot)
Bescot - Walsall

Wolverhampton seem to be the only potential depot to do a mix. And Worcester Shrub Hill seem to be the only depot to sign New Street to Worcester and Worcester to Hereford. So I'm not sure that you're highlighting much of an issue here.

Off topic but do TOCs still use the link system where seniority often gain longer/more desirable routes.
K

Varies. Some TOCs depots links aren't based on seniority. Some TOCs have been so fragmented that there are few/no, longer/more desirable routes to dish out, so there's nothing to gain from seniority in terms of routes.

 

[DavidGrain]

Worcester also operate services over the Stourbridge Line which as commented above includes the Stratford line.

 

[the sniper]

Worcester also operate services over the Stourbridge Line which as commented above includes the Stratford line.

They do, but I'd guess if you were going to go with Kev's idea, the bulk of Worcester Drivers would need to sign them regardless, as New Street/Hereford work is exclusively theirs anyway. If you could do it, you'd need a Link that just signs New Street to Hereford and a Link who just sign the Snow Hill lines, which would have its own issues beyond the short term solution to introducing new stock to just one route.

 

[Liam L]

Update on the 196 themselves:

196109 moved (Under own power) from Tyseley to Donnington RFT - Believed for parking yesterday.
196110 dragged (by 37800 and 37611) from Donnington RFT to Tyseley today.