WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation

[Wyrleybart]

And cascaded ones too (un)fortunately: two lots of 170s gradually going over to EMR - hopefully not too knackered given that, knowing its bad luck, the DfT probably won’t authorise any worthwhile refurbishment. Northern will get their much-looked-forward-to 156s too

Anyway, back OT, I really do hope that the 196s live up to the hype. I may venture across to the west side to do a bit of “train tourism” with my kids if the RF consensus is that they’re decent enough trains - won’t bother if they’re rubbish.

I am afraid DfT is often a generator of it's own bad luck particularly with it's relations in the Rosco world and it's micromanagement of the TOCs. As an example two perfectly serviceable five car 221s have been sat on Central Rivers all summer whilst XC loaned a 3 car 170 to EMR for the summer. This was partially offset by the engineering work on the west bank of the Severn Estuary which reduced the XC service to Cardiff for part of the period. Several things could have happened at CZ, but as a starting point the 221s should have been converted to non tilt so that XC could use them. Both the ex AWC units could give up their fifth car to restore 221136 and 221140 to their full formation, then one of the units could be loaned to cover for 220019 which is approaching it's first anniversary stored under tarpaulins at CZ. The other surplus ex AWC 221 with a little imagination could operate vice a 170 which could be handed "back" to EMR again permanently - given that EMR is considered the most needy TOC for class 170s. The rumour I have heard is that 221142/3 will not be handed to XC for another two years.

Apologies for the slight meander but as DfT are pretty much in total charge of the franchised passenger railway now - the good or bad luck is self generated

 

[Neptune]

Anyway, back OT, I really do hope that the 196s live up to the hype. I may venture across to the west side to do a bit of “train tourism” with my kids if the RF consensus is that they’re decent enough trains - won’t bother if they’re rubbish.

Why don’t you try them anyway with an open mind and then decide what you think?

 

[QSK19]

Why don’t you try them anyway with an open mind and then decide what you think?

I very much see the RF community as a trusted authority to give the real opinion/interpretation on something; so more than happy to be guided by its consensus

But, you and the others have swayed me - after all, I can’t have my son flick through Modern Railways, ask “Daddy, is that a new train?”, I respond “yes, it’s a Class 196” and then he asks whether he can go on one . Over to the west side we will go!

In any case, it could be very subjective so @QSK19 would be better off making their own adventure to find out for themselves.

Ditto my response to @Neptune

 

[warwickshire]

Based on my longest ride on a similar class, the 331s, from Preston to Manchester, in October 2020 and on numerous but shorter rides on 195s, I don't expect there to be any issues with 196s.

In any case, it could be very subjective so @QSK19 would be better off making their own adventure to find out for themselves.

Correct I suppose at the end of the day it is personal preference. Enthusiast A likes a 720 but not 196. However Enthusiast B likes a 196 but not a 720.
Personall preference all around.

 

[Undiscovered]

Why is that?

Training is apparently complete at SHR.
All units will remain in Tysley and run from there. major works needed at Abbey Foregate before 196s can stable full time in any meaningful way.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Training is apparently complete at SHR.
All units will remain in Tysley and run from there. major works needed at Abbey Foregate before 196s can stable full time in any meaningful way.

By which time some SHR crew lapse their competence !!!
Do they have CET at Salop ?

 

[Localguard]

Training is apparently complete at SHR.
All units will remain in Tysley and run from there. major works needed at Abbey Foregate before 196s can stable full time in any meaningful way.

Any ideas what works need completing before they stable there ?

 

[craigybagel]

By which time some SHR crew lapse their competence !!!
Do they have CET at Salop ?

SHR crews work most services along the route. I don't think there's any risk of them losing competency even if only some services are worked by 197s. The drivers sign Tysley depot.

There are no CET facilities at Shrewsbury.

 

[Undiscovered]

Any ideas what works need completing before they stable there ?

The 196s are bigger than the 170s, so yard capacity is reduced. Rumour has it that new depot sidings need to be put in. There's also talk of a new wash being put in.
Whether any of these materialise is a different matter.

 

[GWVillager]

The 196s are bigger than the 170s, so yard capacity is reduced. Rumour has it that new depot sidings need to be put in. There's also talk of a new wash being put in.
Whether any of these materialise is a different matter.

If it isn't an absolute necessity, I highly doubt they'll be put in.

 

[Undiscovered]

If it isn't an absolute necessity, I highly doubt they'll be put in.

The 196 fleet can not become operational without extra depot space in Shrewsbury.
When this extra space will be added...?

 

[anamyd]

The 196s are bigger than the 170s

In what way? A single 4-car 196 replaces two 2-car 170s, so the train is the same size, even though the unit(s) forming it isn't/aren't. Or am I missing something here?

 

[43102EMR]

In what way? A single 4-car 196 replaces two 2-car 170s, so the train is the same size, even though the unit(s) forming it isn't/aren't. Or am I missing something here?

There are 26 196s (14 4 car and 12 2 car), and there were previously 17x 2 car and 6x 3 car 170s at Tyseley, which is an increase in both carriages and units. Just to give a bit of a perspective as to what Tyseley looks like with part of the fleet stored there, here it is from this morning; it’s pretty clear that it needs work done to enlarge it!

 

[Liam L]

There are 26 196s (14 4 car and 12 2 car), and there were previously 17x 2 car and 6x 3 car 170s at Tyseley, which is an increase in both carriages and units. Just to give a bit of a perspective as to what Tyseley looks like with part of the fleet stored there, here it is from this morning; it’s pretty clear that it needs work done to enlarge it!

They started storing them on the road next to the running line (circled in the image) but that didn’t last long

 

[60159]

They started storing them on the road next to the running line (circled in the image) but that didn’t last long

Are there any decent viewing points to get numbers at Tyseley?

 

[newtownmgr]

In what way? A single 4-car 196 replaces two 2-car 170s, so the train is the same size, even though the unit(s) forming it isn't/aren't. Or am I missing something here?

Can’t remember the exact amount of seats, but a 4 car 196 has more seats than 2 x 2 car 170. However 2 x 2 car 196 has roughly the same amount of sears as 2 x 2 car 170. The difference being the intermediate vehicle lengths & no cabs.

 

[Liam L]

Are there any decent viewing points to get numbers at Tyseley?

Passing on a train is probably the best bet

 

[Undiscovered]

In what way? A single 4-car 196 replaces two 2-car 170s, so the train is the same size, even though the unit(s) forming it isn't/aren't. Or am I missing something here?

I'm sure that very expensive platform lengthening works at albrighton, which can just about accommodate a 170, wouldn't be carried out unless absolutely necessary. The size of the platform extensions would suggest that a 196 is significantly bigger than a 170.

 

[60159]

Passing on a train is probably the best bet

Cheers.

 

[1D54]

Are there any decent viewing points to get numbers at Tyseley?

Come out of Tyseley Station and turn right as if going to the depot, there is a point where with good binoculars you will see a couple that may be are not visible from the line

 

[60159]

Come out of Tyseley Station and turn right as if going to the depot, there is a point where with good binoculars you will see a couple that may be are not visible from the line

Brilliant thanks.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

I'm sure that very expensive platform lengthening works at albrighton, which can just about accommodate a 170, wouldn't be carried out unless absolutely necessary. The size of the platform extensions would suggest that a 196 is significantly bigger than a 170.

Platform extensions at Oakengates and Bilbrook as well.

 

[Undiscovered]

Platform extensions at Oakengates and Bilbrook as well.

Yes, but they could never accommodate a 4car 170 anyway.
Albrighton could, but it still needed lengthening to safely accommodate a 4car 196.

 

[Liam L]

Platform extensions at Oakengates and Bilbrook as well.

Are those completed and in use now?

 

[Fidelis]

I attended the Annual WMT Stakeholder Conference yesterday where the MD announced that 196s will start running on the Shrewsbury services on next Monday 17th October.

 

[warwickshire]

Wonder how many diagrams it will be.
Still think it will be gradual come mid to end November Shrewsbury 170 free so to send to Emr for a 156 cascade to Northern. However 196s do a lot at the moment on testing runs anyway on the Shrewsbury line. However 196s are finally arriving times are a changing.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Yes, but they could never accommodate a 4car 170 anyway.
Albrighton could, but it still needed lengthening to safely accommodate a 4car 196.

They couldn't but they can now. They will get rid of the announcement about only traveling in the front carriage for the short platforms eventually.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

I attended the Annual WMT Stakeholder Conference yesterday where the MD announced that 196s will start running on the Shrewsbury services on next Monday 17th October.

Fingers crossed then.

 

[anamyd]

I'm sure that very expensive platform lengthening works at albrighton, which can just about accommodate a 170, wouldn't be carried out unless absolutely necessary. The size of the platform extensions would suggest that a 196 is significantly bigger than a 170.

Yes, a 4-car 196 is significantly bigger than a 2-car 170 (about double the size, funnily enough) but I'm talking about a single 4-car 196 replacing a train of two 2-car 170s, not "a 170".

 

[anamyd]

The difference being the intermediate vehicle lengths & no cabs.

Oh yes, good point - thanks