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Woman Gets £480 Bill For Putting Feet On Seats.

Edsmith

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Nice to see something being done about the disgusting practice of putting feet on seats even if £480 does seem a bit disproportionate whatever the rights and wrongs. Some people do at least remove footwear or put a newspaper on the seat but how difficult is it just to keep feet on the floor?
 
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DelW

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So the law is now language dependent? I might pop across to France and get a barrage of parking tickets and not pay them because they’re written in French. See how far that gets me.

Very unlikely that parking and speeding offences would be pursued internationally - though if you want to test it I’d do it somewhere deeper into Schengen so you can cross an open international frontier. That is of course, not an incitement to break the law!!!!
When I was booked for (inadvertently*) driving in restricted areas without the necessary permits in Italy, two separate city authorities obtained my UK address from the car-hire company and sent me the paperwork for the resulting fines printed in English. I paid them (via my UK bank) in case non-payment might have been recorded and prevented my hiring a car there in future.

*(Driving in Italian cities, especially in a manual LHD car, demands sufficient concentration that simultaneously translating complex signage in Italian is impossible, for me at least. Mea culpa.)
 

jon0844

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Nice to see something being done about the disgusting practice of putting feet on seats even if £480 does seem a bit disproportionate whatever the rights and wrongs. Some people do at least remove footwear or put a newspaper on the seat but how difficult is it just to keep feet on the floor?

But it was £60.

What it has become by ignoring it isn't really relevant. If debts are left even longer, with bailiff fees they could escalate into the thousands - but the original penalty will always remain the same.
 

lachlan

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If we could have similar penalties for people playing music or watching videos without headphones that would be good. Feels like a losing battle now asking people to mute their phones!
 

Buzby

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If we could have similar penalties for people playing music or watching videos without headphones that would be good.
Has anyone noticed the increased use of hands-free mobile calls. They can be video calls or audio only and initially I thought it was old codgers needing increased volume to listen to the far end, but now more likely to be a streamed video call where the user must ramp up the volume to hear and see the distant party (clearly a view of ear wax isn’t liked).

Ear buds would solve the issue, but it is widely accepted as the norm - the lack of privacy doesn’t seem to occur to them. I’d love to see this clamped down on too.
 

John Luxton

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Ear buds would solve the issue, but it is widely accepted as the norm - the lack of privacy doesn’t seem to occur to them. I’d love to see this clamped down on too.
I was on a Merseyrail train a couple of weeks ago and another passenger was speaking loudly and giving out a password for some kind of financial transaction.

They seemd to lack total situational awareness as this started on leaving Birkenhead North and was was till going on when they reached the Mersey Tunnel and lost the signal! :D

Personally I dislike having a conversation on a phone whilst using public transport and unless very urgent (which is unlikely) ask people to call back or I will call them back when I am somewhere private.

However, some seem quite happy to talk loudly and share their lives with total strangers, even when not using the hands free function.

Can't understand why people do it. Don't they value their personal privacy?
 

AdamWW

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I was on a Merseyrail train a couple of weeks ago and another passenger was speaking loudly and giving out a password for some kind of financial transaction.

I once had to give my credit card details over the phone while in an airport departure lounge.
I wasn't very keen on the idea but at least I made sure that I wandered round so no one person got to overhear all of the details.
 

Deepgreen

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But it was £60.

What it has become by ignoring it isn't really relevant. If debts are left even longer, with bailiff fees they could escalate into the thousands - but the original penalty will always remain the same.
Quite. The sort of person who wilfully and arrogantly puts their feet on seats is also probably also often going to be the sort to ignore penalties, at least to start with. The original penalty is the key issue here - ignore at your peril is perhaps the message.
 

Enthusiast

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While keeping socks on is better, I don't get the aversion some people have to bare feet on a seat. They're without doubt the cleanest part of the body because they spend most of their time between being cleaned inside shoes and socks. Hands by contrast are filthy.
But surely the reason your feet are on the end of your legs is because that is the most convenient place for them to be in order to connect your body to the ground. They're indispensable as an aid to standing and walking. I agree there is no need for them to carry out that function when the owner of them is seated. But surely, the best place for feet (whether shod or not) is on the ground or floor. There simply is no need for them to be on seats, whether they (the feet) are pristine or not, because they are perfectly at home on the floor. There should be a simple rule - bums on seats, feet on floor. It's easy and unarguable.
I'm genuinely not sure! The fine and fees were issued to an address in Wales.

I know that the Parking Companies have had their cases thrown out in Welsh courts for issuing parking fines in English only to Welsh drivers.
The Welsh Language Act stipulates that Welsh and English languages should be treated equally in the conduct of public business in Wales. It applies to public bodies which provide services to the public in Wales. I'm not sure but I don't think that Merseyrail provides services in Wales. If your supposition was to apply to Welsh residents, wherever in the UK they transgressed, it would mean Scotrail would have to provide their penalty notice documentation in Welsh in case a Welsh passenger was caught fare dodging between Georgemas Junction and Thurso!

I'm not sure whether private parking companies would fall foul of the Act. It is specifically applicable to public bodies and a comprehensive list of the bodies subject to the Act is provided (and private parking companies are not included). There is a "catch all" inclusion in that list which is "any person (whether or not a body corporate or unincorporate) who appears to the Secretary of State to be exercising functions of a public nature." I'm not sure a private parking company would fall into that category. But a TOC might.
 

Meerkat

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While keeping socks on is better, I don't get the aversion some people have to bare feet on a seat. They're without doubt the cleanest part of the body because they spend most of their time between being cleaned inside shoes and socks. Hands by contrast are filthy.
If they are so clean why do they often stink? They are confined inside shoes where they get hot and sweat (After a hot day walking the Isle of Wight coast path I took my trainers off on the train.....then quickly had to put them back on out of embarrassment!).
Very unlikely that parking and speeding offences would be pursued internationally - though if you want to test it I’d do it somewhere deeper into Schengen so you can cross an open international frontier. That is of course, not an incitement to break the law!!!!
I opened a letter for a moved away neighbour and it was a fine from an Italian city and the bill had got very large with their legal fees for chasing it.


On the lack of thought about feet on seats - what about all the parents that let their kids stand and sit in shopping trolleys!
 

Zamracene749

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If they are so clean why do they often stink? They are confined inside shoes where they get hot and sweat (After a hot day walking the Isle of Wight coast path I took my trainers off on the train.....then quickly had to put them back on out of embarrassment!).

I opened a letter for a moved away neighbour and it was a fine from an Italian city and the bill had got very large with their legal fees for chasing it.


On the lack of thought about feet on seats - what about all the parents that let their kids stand and sit in shopping trolleys!
Wasn't there a case quite recently where a chap raised a stink 8-) on a train somewhere in Hampshire after getting grief for removing his boots? I certainly wouldn't want to sit on seat that had had whiffy feet like that on them, give me clean trainers anyday!
 

Busaholic

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Very unlikely that parking and speeding offences would be pursued internationally - though if you want to test it I’d do it somewhere deeper into Schengen so you can cross an open international frontier. That is of course, not an incitement to break the law!!!!
I returned home from a holiday in Brittany in the 1990s to find a parking fine from St Malo, which I contemplated not paying but did so. Talking to a local Cornish traffic warden at the time, I enquired whether European registered cars received tickets here, to which he replied they were instructed to turn a blind eye!
 

norbitonflyer

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I returned home from a holiday in Brittany in the 1990s to find a parking fine from St Malo, which I contemplated not paying but did so. Talking to a local Cornish traffic warden at the time, I enquired whether European registered cars received tickets here, to which he replied they were instructed to turn a blind eye!
There is a lot of controversy at present about foreign drivers being chased for driving in London's ULEZ. The company pursuing them (Euro Parking Collection) is apparently breaching EU data protection rules to get the owners' details from the foreign equivalents of the DVLA - and also misclassifying some ordinary cars as HGVs

 

Haywain

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fully support all seats facing the same way, saves having the feet on seats problem
It appears to be quite common for people using airline seats on Thameslink services to sit sideways with their feet up on the seat.
 

johncrossley

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A few months ago a ticket inspector on a Thameslink train warned me I would be fined if I continued to have my feet on the seats. I always knew it was a Merseyrail thing but can this rule also apply elsewhere?

If you look at how worn the facing seats on Thameslink trains are, compared to airline seats, you can see why there needs to be such a rule. The London Underground Metropolitan Line seats are even worse. It is clear that many people have had their feet on those seats. I would rather stand than sit in a facing seat on Thameslink or Metropolitan Line.

It appears to be quite common for people using airline seats on Thameslink services to sit sideways with their feet up on the seat.

Yes, this is another problem. It is getting to the stage where *no* seats on Thameslink are usable.
 

londonbridge

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What a dreadful indictment of parenting these days.
Just as bad as the other day on the bus, kid around three or four talking away, pointing out things in the street through the window and saying “look mummy, look”, etc. Young mother who didn’t look much older than a teenager herself, telling her offspring to “shut up, you’re doing my f****ng head in”……what chance in life has the kid got with a parent like that??
 
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Bletchleyite

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Just as bad as the other day on the bus, kid around three or four talking away, pointing out things in the street through the window and saying “look mummy, look”, etc. Young mother who didn’t look much older than a teenager herself, telling her offspring to “shut up, you’re doing my f****ng head in”……what chance in life has the kid got with a patent like that??

I've generally in life not been a fan of the state acting as a proxy parent, but in this sort of case if it doesn't it's just going to produce more of the same :(
 

D365

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Today I saw a bloke sleeping across two seats on a 22x… thank goodness we were not travelling into Wales [or Scotland].
Just as bad as the other day on the bus, kid around three or four talking away, pointing out things in the street through the window and saying “look mummy, look”, etc. Young mother who didn’t look much older than a teenager herself, telling her offspring to “shut up, you’re doing my f****ng head in”……what chance in life has the kid got with a patent like that??
I’m not a parent myself and would never claim to ”know better”, but the cusses that I have heard levelled by parents recently [within my earshot] leave me very saddened. It definitely doesn’t do anything positive for a child’s self-image.
 

nanstallon

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I see nothing wrong with it costing her £483. It is a filthy thing to do, and all too typical of the British yob culture. And good on whoever called her out for it.
 

trainophile

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I've slept across two seats before. Can't see an issue there unless the train is busy. Feet on the floor of course.

Perhaps they mean sleeping across two facing seats, with their feet on the opposite one?

I've seen tall younger blokes with their feet not only on the edge or cushion of the facing seat, but they're half slouched down in the seat they are occupying, with their feet resting half way up the facing backrest. There's never a guard around when you want one, and sorry to say even when there is one they often don't call it out.

Came back from Fort William on a Scotrail to Glasgow on Friday, and a young girl across the aisle had her feet on the seat she was occupying, walking type boots resting on the edge and her knees under her chin, for almost the entire journey, except when she bent her legs under her for a short time before going back to yoga position A. It didn't even look comfortable, goodness knows why she couldn't just sit properly.
 

nanstallon

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Perhaps they mean sleeping across two facing seats, with their feet on the opposite one?

I've seen tall younger blokes with their feet not only on the edge or cushion of the facing seat, but they're half slouched down in the seat they are occupying, with their feet resting half way up the facing backrest. There's never a guard around when you want one, and sorry to say even when there is one they often don't call it out.

Came back from Fort William on a Scotrail to Glasgow on Friday, and a young girl across the aisle had her feet on the seat she was occupying, walking type boots resting on the edge and her knees under her chin, for almost the entire journey, except when she bent her legs under her for a short time before going back to yoga position A. It didn't even look comfortable, goodness knows why she couldn't just sit properly.
Railway staff are reluctant to confront anti-social behaviour, for fear of a violent reaction.
 

Signal_Box

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I see that a woman has ended up with a £480 bill for putting feet on seats on Merseyrail train. (She did not pay the initial penalty).

I see from the comments that most members of the public are pleased that action was taken to stop this filthy habit of soiling the seats.


Good on Merseyrail enforcing the by laws, it’s a shame the same zero tolerance approach isn’t taken across the network and wider country.
 

al78

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Personally I dislike having a conversation on a phone whilst using public transport and unless very urgent (which is unlikely) ask people to call back or I will call them back when I am somewhere private.

However, some seem quite happy to talk loudly and share their lives with total strangers, even when not using the hands free function.

Can't understand why people do it. Don't they value their personal privacy?
A smartphone shrinks the visible universe to around 20 inches from the user's body. As in the edge of the observable universe, no information can pass outside to inside or vice versa.
 

peteb

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Just flown back from Spain with Ryanair. Some bloke came up the plane to the row opposite us which was empty and promptly lay across all 3 seats without removing his shoes.....not a word was said to him by the crew, even though they'd just said stay in your allocated seat. Seems different rules for different modes of transport?

PS: I often see folks with feet on seats in station waiting areas.
 

al78

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Railway staff are reluctant to confront anti-social behaviour, for fear of a violent reaction.
A vicious circle. Few if anyone wants to risk violence upon themself by calling out poor behaviour, but not doing so effectively validates it by permitting actions without consequences, and so it continues with externalised consequences inflicted on third parties. Ultimately I believe the only way to prevent antisocial/thoughtless behaviour from the morally dead is to frequently internalise consequences that are high enough that the cost exceeds the gain and the risk is not worth it.
 

RT4038

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So the law is now language dependent? I might pop across to France and get a barrage of parking tickets and not pay them because they’re written in French. See how far that gets me.
I don't think there are any other official languages in France apart from French (if there are, English certainly isn't one of them). In Wales however...... So no, an English speaker will not get away with that in France.
 

Stigy

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It seems to me it would be better if a Penalty Notice for Disorder applied at fixed £60/£90 bands for this kind of offence. It's a shame the framework for these can't be extended to minor Byelaw infractions such as this.

For the avoidance of doubt I'm not saying it's justifiable by calling it minor, it shouldn't be happening at all, people should be able to take reasonable care of public seat cushions that they themselves are using.
There was talk about this happening a few years ago now. It certainly makes sense for PNDs to encompass byelaw infringements, but only BTP or RSAS staff can issue these anyway.
 

Starmill

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There was talk about this happening a few years ago now. It certainly makes sense for PNDs to encompass byelaw infringements, but only BTP or RSAS staff can issue these anyway.
Yes. I'd say CSAS/RSAS (Community or Railway Safety Accreditation Scheme) really is a bare minimum that enforcement staff can be expected to be trained to.

Ideally you'd issue very few penalties for the minor infringements such as breaking the byelaw by putting your feet on the seats, you'd instead use them as a backstop to educate and manage-out the "bad behaviour".
 

contrex

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But it was £60.

What it has become by ignoring it isn't really relevant. If debts are left even longer, with bailiff fees they could escalate into the thousands - but the original penalty will always remain the same.
I got a fixed penalty of £75 in Bristol for chucking a dog end on the pavement. Bang to rights. Reduced to £50 if paid within 10 days. Paid up online when I got home. Instrumental in making me give up smoking (saved the cost in 3 weeks of not buying fags). You see daft headlines like 'Woman fined £700 for dropping a cigarette end' where the person failed to engage at any steps along the route to the mags court.
 

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