Worst LA for timetable information

[Teapot42]

Which Local Authority do people find is the worst in terms of providing clear and accurate bus times?

I'd vote for Derbyshire for three reasons:

• Service updates are often notified very late, sometimes even after the fact. For example, when the Sunday 257 and 61 were merged there was nothing on the service updates page and no new timetables for at least two weeks after the change had happened.
• The format of timetables isn't great. They are better than when they first moved to the current (automated?) system, but I still don't find them as clear and easy to use as previously.
• Timetables at bus stops are poorly laid out and often missing or not current. Stops served by TM or High Peak seem to be given preferential treatment, but with other operators missed or their timetables 'hidden' at the 'wrong side' of the timetable case. Services are shown in numerical order rather than time, so for example a lower numbered evening service is given priority, making it harder to see when the next bus will be.

Can anyone highlight a worse council for quality and provision of what is fairly crucial information for bus users?

 

[Lynford1976]

I thought Derbyshire was one of the better authorities?

I'd vote Dorset, who do absolutely zilch.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Which Local Authority do people find is the worst in terms of providing clear and accurate bus times?

I'd vote for Derbyshire for three reasons:

• Service updates are often notified very late, sometimes even after the fact. For example, when the Sunday 257 and 61 were merged there was nothing on the service updates page and no new timetables for at least two weeks after the change had happened.
• The format of timetables isn't great. They are better than when they first moved to the current (automated?) system, but I still don't find them as clear and easy to use as previously.
• Timetables at bus stops are poorly laid out and often missing or not current. Stops served by TM or High Peak seem to be given preferential treatment, but with other operators missed or their timetables 'hidden' at the 'wrong side' of the timetable case. Services are shown in numerical order rather than time, so for example a lower numbered evening service is given priority, making it harder to see when the next bus will be.

Can anyone highlight a worse council for quality and provision of what is fairly crucial information for bus users?

Derbyshire isn't even close to the worst. In fact, you don't know how lucky you are (and perhaps that's a damning indictment in the UK?)

Poorly formatted timetables? At least they produce those. Last minute updates? Many local authorities produce nothing. Badly laid out bus stops and roadside publicity?

• I'd suggest my adoptive county of Somerset. They do nothing in terms of roadside publicity which is left to the operators. First and South West Coaches do a bit but if it's a tendered to someone like Libra Travel or Frome Bus, then you can forget it. There are timetable cases in locations that haven't been changed since First pulled out in 2014. The council website has only a few links to specific routes.
• Dorset is another good shout. Some important tendered services often only operate on Mon-Fri such as the Yeovil to Blandford or the Gillingham area routes so that towns like Sturminster Newton (pop 5k) has no bus service at weekends whilst the only bus service for Gillingham (pop 11k) is a Wiltshire Council service to Mere (though at least there is a rail station). Roadside publicity is woeful (mainly operator led, I think), and online, it's just a link to Traveline.
• North Yorkshire has always been tepid. Expenditure was slashed in the early 2010s austerity so whilst evening and Sunday services went, so did most local town services outside of Harrogate and Scarborough, with partial replacements using council welfare minibuses in the off peak. Publicity is left to operators though some smaller indies like Hodgsons actually are bothered to put up timetables. I will concede that they do have online timetables that are readily searchable (which is good) but the format of those is quite rudimentary.

The creation of Welsh unitaries in 1994 (?) was always going to have a detrimental impact on bus services and so it proved with fragmentation and a lack of consistency and coordination, though again exacerbated by budget cuts.

• Of the Welsh LAs, Flintshire is perhaps the worst with bus shelters so dilapidated, you fear for your safety (genuinely). Their website carries the following note

Passengers are advised that on Monday 1st of July 2024 there will be a number of changes to some bus services across Wales including Flintshire, including bus timetable changes. Passengers are advised to check individual operators websites before making travel plans to ensure they are accessing the most recent timetables.

However, they don't tell you what's happening and there's just a selection of operator links of which some don't work

• In Caerphilly, you can amuse yourself with seeing how many bus stops have operators from yesteryear - still plenty of Islwyn BT and Gwyn Williams logos on decaying bus stop flags.
• Neath Port Talbot is also typified by poor roadside publicity and, as with Caerphilly, all you get is a link to Traveline Cymru and the local operator sites

I could go on and on but Derbyshire the worst.... you really don't know how blessed you are.

 

[Statto]

Derbyshire the worst LA for bus information, give over you need to give your head a wobble, they're one of the best, & have there own dedicated website for bus information too

Public Transport in Derbyshire & the Peak District

A lot of the North Wales LAs are dreadful now for bus information, Flintshire is definitely one of the worst LAs in North Wales, publicity non existent, whether at bus stops, or website, Flintshire used to be good & published their own timetable books, i know i have a couple of those books.

Ok i''ll say it, for a major Capital City TFL are dreadful now for bus information, they scrapped their own published bus maps a few years ago, that as great as they are it's left to an independent site (The Greater London Bus Map) to publish bus maps, ok TFL have working timetables on their website, but try working them out if you've never read them in that format before, but again it's left to independent site to publish standard timetables, even TFL spider maps can be out of date too.

 

[Teapot42]

Derbyshire the worst LA for bus information, give over you need to give your head a wobble,

Why do people feel the need to use offensive remarks like this? Like most I have very limited experience of public transport outside of my home area so have nothing to compare to. What I see is poor - even the website you mention is poorly formatted. Timetables are PDFs - not that easy to use on a mobile. Ticketing information buried deep.

If this is considered good, then heaven help anyone, especially tourists not familiar with the UK, trying to navigate buses elsewhere.

Ok i''ll say it, for a major Capital City TFL are dreadful now for bus information, they scrapped their own published bus maps a few years ago, that as great as they are it's left to an independent site (The Greater London Bus Map) to publish bus maps, ok TFL have working timetables on their website, but try working them out if you've never read them in that format before, but again it's left to independent site to publish standard timetables, even TFL spider maps can be out of date too.

I've never personally had a problem in London, but that may be because services are so frequent having detailed information is less of an issue. A combination of Google Maps and their journey finder works well for me.

 

[Taunton]

People write about this as if it is new. Ever like this. Back in the 1950s-60s-70s there was often nothing other than a Bus Stop sign fixed to a lamp post. No indication whatever of when the buses came. At the obscure head office there might be a timetable book (charged for), though often 'out of print'. Even the conductors were provided with no information beyond their own shift. The most common approach was word-of-mouth.

Scotland in the 1970s was especially bad as, although there could be a timetable book, these were complete fictions at weekends when crews were voluntary overtime and at some periods hardly anyone came in. There might be one bus to a remote hospital for which a special effort was made, driven by the Sunday inspector, or even the garage manager himself having come in specially.

 

[Teapot42]

Derbyshire isn't even close to the worst. In fact, you don't know how lucky you are (and perhaps that's a damning indictment in the UK?)

I actually find that quite worrying! As someone who feels more able than many to collate information and plan routes I find what we have here not great. Maybe that is part of why bus usage is so poor?

Rail is fairly well coordinated nationwide, maybe there is demand for something similar for buses? Bustimes.org is useful but still has some errors and doesn't flag up service changes - and after all is a private offering.

• I'd suggest my adoptive county of Somerset. They do nothing in terms of roadside publicity which is left to the operators.

That doesn't have to be a bad thing - as I've mentioned elsewhere, Hulleys would like to advertise their services roadside but were fined by the council for doing so. From memory they were also billed by GM for use of timetable cases for the X57 after it had been withdrawn.

• In Caerphilly, you can amuse yourself with seeing how many bus stops have operators from yesteryear - still plenty of Islwyn BT and Gwyn Williams logos on decaying bus stop flags.

To be fair we do have a lot of unused stops where the flag hasn't been taken down and still shows service numbers which disappeared last century. Even in-use stops rarely have flags updated.

We also have things like the stops on the Snake were labelled as not being in use after January 2021 - hardly going to make walkers think there are still buses! Of course that is now valid again, but I wonder if better publicity would have driven better usage meaning the service would have stayed.

In these days where even libraries are being run by volunteers I wonder if there is scope for interested locals to get involved and help keep things up to date? We shouldn't have to, but if no one else is doing it...

People write about this as if it is new. Ever like this. Back in the 1950s-60s-70s there was often nothing other than a Bus Stop sign fixed to a lamp post. No indication whatever of when the buses came. At the obscure head office there might be a timetable book (charged for), though often 'out of print'. Even the conductors were provided with no information beyond their own shift. The most common approach was word-of-mouth.

Scotland in the 1970s was especially bad as, although there could be a timetable book, these were complete fictions at weekends when crews were voluntary overtime and at some periods hardly anyone came in. There might be one bus to a remote hospital for which a special effort was made, driven by the Sunday inspector, or even the garage manager himself having come in specially.

Growing up in Co Durham (80s, early 90s) we had no trouble getting hold of timetable leaflets - after all, United had their own print shop. From memory what the council produced was detailed and comprehensive. I can't recall what information was at the stops, but when I later moved to Liverpool then Stockport the information seemed well presented. From Stockport I often travelled in to Derbyshire and again information seemed good.

Of course one big difference between then and now is frequency. Where we live now had 6 bph on the main route and another 3 or 4 on other routes. Today we have 1. Where I grew up was on a route between two large towns which was 2 bph. I believe you now can't get to either direct. A short walk got you to maybe 10 bph to various other destinations, now it's 2 and very limited options.

Where service provision is low, accurate and easily available information is much more important.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I actually find that quite worrying! As someone who feels more able than many to collate information and plan routes I find what we have here not great. Maybe that is part of why bus usage is so poor?

Rail is fairly well coordinated nationwide, maybe there is demand for something similar for buses? Bustimes.org is useful but still has some errors and doesn't flag up service changes - and after all is a private offering.

I don't quote the entire post so...

Traveline was supposed to be the answer, at least for online/phone enquiries. However, for stuff like roadside information etc, local authorities have had their funding progressively cut since 2010. Public transport is not a statutory responsibility unlike education or social care. Most LAs have had to take a hard view at what they can do and what they can't. Many struggle to support the local services anyway so stuff like roadside publicity takes a back seat. Not saying it's right but this is a public transport forum - we're going to think it should be a priority yet most people might say libraries, or youth clubs, or roads should come first.

The issue with roadside publicity and getting operators to do it is two fold. Firstly, there is lack of consistency - some operators are very good (Stagecoach opcos tend to be better) whilst others are quite poor, and that's before you get to questions like putting up timetables rather than departure lists, ticket information etc. Secondly, if it's council infrastructure, who then polices things when operator X wants to put something up at the expense or detriment of operator Y. Less of an issue now but it has been historically and so it's why councils who own the infrastructure have denied operators the freedom to use it independently.

I don't have the Roger French experience or knowledge but I find myself out on day trips looking at things in the same way (and posting in the trip reports section). Whilst Scotland has been off my radar for the last few years, I've been out and about in most parts of the UK since 2021 with some exceptions. Believe me - Derbyshire is far from the worst.

 

[Teapot42]

... However, for stuff like roadside information etc, local authorities have had their funding progressively cut since 2010. Public transport is not a statutory responsibility unlike education or social care. Most LAs have had to take a hard view at what they can do and what they can't. Many struggle to support the local services anyway so stuff like roadside publicity takes a back seat. Not saying it's right but this is a public transport forum - we're going to think it should be a priority yet most people might say libraries, or youth clubs, or roads should come first.

The issue with roadside publicity and getting operators to do it is two fold. Firstly, there is lack of consistency - some operators are very good (Stagecoach opcos tend to be better) whilst others are quite poor, and that's before you get to questions like putting up timetables rather than departure lists, ticket information etc. Secondly, if it's council infrastructure, who then polices things when operator X wants to put something up at the expense or detriment of operator Y. Less of an issue now but it has been historically and so it's why councils who own the infrastructure have denied operators the freedom to use it independently.

I guess there are also many contradictions. Getting people on the bus means the amounts councils need to pay in subsidy may reduce if a service becomes more commercially viable, it could also mean less revenue from car parks.

On a more macro level, better bus provision may mean paying higher taxes, but if the average family can do with one less car as a result they will be massively better off, never mind the health benefits of cleaner air.

Whether we ever become a country that can actually sell those benefits is another question - when one of the main parties creates uproar at the very hint of a small tax rise no matter what the benefit I struggle to see how any party can propose the increases needed to properly fund buses, trams and trains.

Back on the subject, I do agree that Stagecoach do a good job. I'm not sure if it's them who update the roadside publicity, but their timetables and website are pretty good, and publicity for 'special' services is excellent. That shows the benefits of doing this on a larger scale - it's easier to amortise the costs.

I'm not sure I'd force operators to do roadside, but I'd certainly encourage them if willing. After all it's in their benefit for it to be clear and accurate. My big gripe on Derbyshire is how certain operators have been allowed to put their own stuff up at the expense of others. TM for example have even been able to modify the flags which their 218 serves, and they have full size adverts in the cases, with other services at best less prominent but often missing. As you say, fair access is the main challenge.

 

[JKP]

There are good and bad LAs in Scotland as well. Perth and Kinross update their bus stop displays. Dumfries and Galloway I have lately found to be mixed with some stops showing out of date or non consistent displays. East Lothian have historically been awful whilst Midlothian seem to have abandoned any attempt at bus timetable displays or maintenance of their bus shelters. Scottish Borders is a bit of a mixture with at stop displays in some areas and referring passengers to the Borders Buses or Traveline app in others. In Edinburgh it is fine if you want a Lothian bus but no other operator’s services get a look in.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Nothing at all can be worse than Dublin’s system of stating when the bus leaves the origin stop and then leaving it to you to work out how far along that route you are.

 

[Busaholic]

Nothing at all can be worse than Dublin’s system of stating when the bus leaves the origin stop and then leaving it to you to work out how far along that route you are.

''I wouldn't start your journey from here if I were you'' some might consider racist but contains an essential truth....

 

[Llandudno]

Derbyshire is definitely one of the better authorities for public transport information - shame that they no longer produce the excellent three regional books though.

My vote for the worst would be Conwy County in north Wales.
Despite being in a major tourist area there are no timetables at bus stops, most bus stop timetable cases still display out of date Covid information. There are no route numbers on bus stops and the bus route poster at Llandudno Junction station is 7 years out of date.

There are no bus times on the Conwy Council website, just a link to the generic UK wide Arriva website which is virtually unintelligible!

 

[Hophead]

Surrey seem to do a reasonable job but I have to say that, when I'm planning a trip in unfamiliar territory, it simply wouldn't occur to me to investigate which local authority might have some sort of responsibility. I get the basic data from Google Maps then consult the relevant operator website, with a top-up of bustimes.org.

 

[Teapot42]

Nothing at all can be worse than Dublin’s system of stating when the bus leaves the origin stop and then leaving it to you to work out how far along that route you are.

Oddly they use the same system in Taipei. Took me a while to get used to it, but luckily most services are frequent enough it's not really a problem. Also confusing is knowing when to pay - most services are split in two, for some you pay on entry, some on exit and if going a long way you can do both.

Luckily their Easycard system makes payment so easy. It's like Oyster but for the whole country and can also be used in convenience shops.

 

[Roger1973]

I don't quote the entire post so...

Traveline was supposed to be the answer, at least for online/phone enquiries. However, for stuff like roadside information etc, local authorities have had their funding progressively cut since 2010. Public transport is not a statutory responsibility unlike education or social care. Most LAs have had to take a hard view at what they can do and what they can't. Many struggle to support the local services anyway so stuff like roadside publicity takes a back seat. Not saying it's right but this is a public transport forum - we're going to think it should be a priority yet most people might say libraries, or youth clubs, or roads should come first.

The issue with roadside publicity and getting operators to do it is two fold. Firstly, there is lack of consistency - some operators are very good (Stagecoach opcos tend to be better) whilst others are quite poor, and that's before you get to questions like putting up timetables rather than departure lists, ticket information etc. Secondly, if it's council infrastructure, who then polices things when operator X wants to put something up at the expense or detriment of operator Y. Less of an issue now but it has been historically and so it's why councils who own the infrastructure have denied operators the freedom to use it independently.

I don't have the Roger French experience or knowledge but I find myself out on day trips looking at things in the same way (and posting in the trip reports section). Whilst Scotland has been off my radar for the last few years, I've been out and about in most parts of the UK since 2021 with some exceptions. Believe me - Derbyshire is far from the worst.

Absolutely.

And Traveline (in many regions) has now been abandoned by local authorities, the idea being that bus operators feed their data in to the BODS (Bus Open Data Service) and everything will be fine.

In reality, many small operators do not have the resources / skills / tech to get data right in the first place (and in many cases an attitude that all this data stuff is an unwelcome burden rather than anything that might get more passengers on buses), and in many large 'group' operators the data is dealt with at regional if not national level by people who lack the local knowledge to get it right. Or to adjust data so that it makes sense in journey planners and the like where there is a circular route or a loop terminus with an artificial 'terminus' point somewhere on the loop.

There are obviously some honourable exceptions, and some mid sized companies that have both the local knowledge and the combination of management will / people who know what they are doing.

In terms of councils and roadside publicity, there are some councils who opted out of this and left it to operators even before the cuts since 2010. In Berkshire, the local councils (there's not been a county council here since the 90s) leave it to operators. Fortunately, most of the operators are fairly good at it now, but that wasn't the case in parts of the county not so long ago, and there were (until fairly recently) a few abandoned bus stops complete with an increasingly out of date and faded timetable where an operator had pulled out of a route and had not been replaced.

 

[station_road]

My gripe on Derbyshire is how certain operators have been allowed to put their own stuff up at the expense of others. TM for example have even been able to modify the flags which their 218 serves, and they have full size adverts in the cases, with other services at best less prominent but often missing. As you say, fair access is the main challenge.

Isn't that because the Wellglade companies (including TM Travel) provided their own own timetable cases and timetables? I'm more familiar with the southern end of Derbyshire but there Trent and Kinch put their own timetable cases at pretty much every stop, Derbyshire do timetables only at some stops on other routes.

Other operators could provide their own timetables if they want (as Arriva and Diamond do, in their own cases or using shared spaces in bus shelters)

 

[Teapot42]

Isn't that because the Wellglade companies (including TM Travel) provided their own own timetable cases and timetables? I'm more familiar with the southern end of Derbyshire but there Trent and Kinch put their own timetable cases at pretty much every stop, Derbyshire do timetables only at some stops on other routes.

Other operators could provide their own timetables if they want (as Arriva and Diamond do, in their own cases or using shared spaces in bus shelters)

The Wellglade Group of Companies obviously have an agreement with Derbyshire County Council, the Local Transport Authority, who are responsible for bus stops within Derbyshire. Henry Hulley and Sons, trading as Hulleys of Baslow, tried putting information up and got fined for it.

 

[station_road]

Wellglade obviously have an agreement with DCC - Hulleys tried putting information up and got fined for it.

Do you have a source for that? It sounds unlikely, and other operators provide timetables at stops (Diamond, Arriva, Transpeak that I know of)

 

[Busaholic]

Do you have a source for that? It sounds unlikely, and other operators provide timetables at stops (Diamond, Arriva, Transpeak that I know of)

I'm interested too how that could be justified, but councils are getting very good at interpreting legislation in ways for which they weren't intended, so I'm guessing if it was true they are using (or misusing) 'littering' laws. Having once been falsely accused of such a thing, I have a real bee in the bonnet about the subject! It's all about councils desperate to raise extra cash to add to the dreadfully small allocations received from the government, of course.

 

[markymark2000]

Derbyshire isn't even close to the worst. In fact, you don't know how lucky you are (and perhaps that's a damning indictment in the UK?)

I don't think that I have ever agreed with you so much. We disagree on a lot but crikey, you are so right here.

Of the Welsh LAs, Flintshire is perhaps the worst with bus shelters so dilapidated, you fear for your safety (genuinely).

They are all as bad in North Wales.

Flintshire hasn't updated its bus stop timetables in about 10 years. Most bus stops still have the timetables up from 10 years ago as well. It's not just that they haven't udpated them and have taken them down; nope, they still exist. Real time information in bus stops was turned off years ago. It makes me laugh how Mold Bus Station got a revamp during Covid; in some shelters they put back up old timetables and in other cases they just threw in a piece of paper saying that due to covid they can't do bus stop timetables.
Their website is absolutely laughable. They have a link to bus operator contact details. That list still has GHA Coaches listed; GHA ceased trading in 2016! They provide links to the councils transport Twitter; that hasn't been used since 2013! It's absolutely awful!

Wrexham Council similarly hasn't updated bus stop timetables in years, the bus station has no 'where to catch your bus' information, you just have to go through all 8 stands and check for yourself.

Denbighshire Council seems to be leaving it up to operators meaning in Rhyl there are timetables which are years out of date as Arriva can't be bothered to stick a new A4 piece of paper up in the bus station. Last buses have changed their times too since the current set of timetables was put up and therefore it's arguably a safeguarding issue as vulnerable people will be left in Rhyl Bus Station because they trusted the times that the bus stop says.

Conwy, as @Llandudno says, just has a shed load of posters up saying due to covid they can't do bus stop timetables. Some of the infrastructure comes under the town councils and they don't care either for providing proper information.

Gwynedd and Anglesey I can't comment on too much for the wider area as I've not spent much time with there. I know Gwynedd has started to invest a little bit with next bus screens at Bangor Bus Station on each of the stands (See photos below). Just up the road at the train station however, a key interchange hub, which is served by a supposed flagship, TrawsCymru route, the posters are years out of date promoting Express Motors who ceased in 2018, no wayfinding information (most buses use the bus stop on the main road) and no timetables at all.

Neath Port Talbot is also typified by poor roadside publicity

It makes me laugh how run down the bus station is in Neath. There a signs saying which buses depart from each stand and these list routes which haven't operated in years. Really really poor show at Neath Port Talbot.

In reality, many small operators do not have the resources / skills / tech to get data right in the first place (and in many cases an attitude that all this data stuff is an unwelcome burden rather than anything that might get more passengers on buses), and in many large 'group' operators the data is dealt with at regional if not national level by people who lack the local knowledge to get it right. Or to adjust data so that it makes sense in journey planners and the like where there is a circular route or a loop terminus with an artificial 'terminus' point somewhere on the loop.

If independents embraced Bus Open Data and realised the benefits, rather than burying their heads into the sand it would be ok. Sadly the majority choose the latter. It's always been a difficult to get indies to adapt to new tech. Charging points are rare still on buses. Contactless only had a massive uplift due to various bits of public funding such as in Wales the Welsh Govt paid for operators to get new ticket machines so they could accept contactless (among a few other reasons).

Large group operators are a different kettle of fish. They are mostly compliant but full of issues with the data. I went through a big 5 operators data the other day and in one division found hundreds of errors for missing stops, wrong stops (such as wrong side of the road), stops in the wrong order, showing as serving stops which no longer exist etc etc. GoAhead Oxford Bus has a great one on the Pulhams dataset whereby the last 802 of the day doesn't list set down only so people think they can board at any stop on the way. Infact the bus only picks up at one bus stop, Kingham Train Station, and is set down only from there! I've emailed Pulhams and done multiple feedbacks on BODS. All ignored!

BODs issues will get resolved though when the DVSA/Traffic Commissioner pull their finger out and start enforcement.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Flintshire hasn't updated its bus stop timetables in about 10 years.

Holywell has something newer (2022) but there have been changes since.

 

[markymark2000]

Holywell has something newer (2022) but there have been changes since.

The ones that I know of are Queensferry Station Road. Pretty busy stop on a key corridor. Perhaps just the bus stations got done but the information was out of date almost as soon as it was put up. This is the style that I noted in Mold Bus Station but as of Dec 2023, they still quoted the M&H X1 and gave no reference to the T8.

x.com

x.com

I nearly celebrated when I saw that @FlintshireCC had finally put timetables at Mold Bus Station. Sadly this was quickly put to a stop when I realised that despite these being newly put up, they are very old. The 1 and X1 were replaced by the @TrawsCymru_ T8 11 months ago!

It's funny that they still promote the Flintshire County Council Transport Twitter despite it not being used since 2013. Just... why would you still be promoting it?

 

[neilcobbe]

Reading all these posts makes me appreciate living in a PTE area, not always perfect but as these posts say, could be a lot worse.

 

[Teapot42]

Do you have a source for that? It sounds unlikely, and other operators provide timetables at stops (Diamond, Arriva, Transpeak that I know of)

It's from a comment by a Hulleys employee on the Enthusiasts Facebook group. As it's a closed group I don't think it's possible to share here.

They did make the following statement though:
If you place anything on a bus stop that’s not permitted by DCC, you can get fined up to £1,000 per bus stop.

It does sound like they've managed to discuss it with the council and now at least have an understanding they can put their own timetables up.

 

[mangad]

There's two bus stops near me that are served by hourly buses, running from 6am to midnight seven days a week, that are still Cheshire County Council branded. A council that hasn't existed since 2009. The bus stops are getting increasingly worn and tatty. If councils can't even make a bus stop flag look decent... Timetables? Forget about it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Continuing in North Wales - Conwy is not exactly quality either. This is in Llanrwst (1) and near Conwy (2).

The main station stop in Betws y Coed, quite a tourist hub, has a digital screen with non real time information for next three departures. That’s it!

 

[Hyebone]

Mirroring what @Teapot42 has said, DCC's (Derbyshire County Council) effort with roadside timetables has been taking the absolute proverbial as of late. I highlighted this in a thread here about a roadside timetable for the 77/77a route between Chesterfield and Worksop.

On the other hand from what I've seen in South Yorkshire, their efforts are quite substantially better than DCC's. Whether that's to do with SYMCA (South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority) or what? I have no idea. Each interchange contains both a "Stands by destination" and "routes by destination" boards clearly visible. Even at the roadside, the information is clearly laid out and visible.

Another good lot of roadside timetables I've found to be in Trentbarton territory in central/south Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire. They all have colour coded information for all of their routes with estimated journey times to major settlements along the route. It's clear that SYMCA and Trentbarton have put human minds to the task, versus the cheap automated path DCC have gone down.

 

[johnnychips]

On the other hand from what I've seen in South Yorkshire, their efforts are quite substantially better than DCC's. Whether that's to do with SYMCA (South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority) or what? I have no idea. Each interchange contains both a "Stands by destination" and "routes by destination" boards clearly visible. Even at the roadside, the information is clearly laid out and visible.

Generally I would agree with you. One really annoying feature on the timetables at bus stops and bus stations is:

Most departure times are shown in black. However, Journeys in red may terminate at Marsh Lane, Eckington or Halfway without any indication which is which. Surely it isn’t beyond modern technology to use asterixes, crosses etc. to distinguish them.

(Bonus prize if you get the route number).

 

[markymark2000]

The main station stop in Betws y Coed, quite a tourist hub, has a digital screen with non real time information for next three departures. That’s it!

I believe that that screen is only there due to Welsh Govt funding these screens for TrawsCymru hubs.

At the time of installation, the Welsh Bus Data service didn't exist. I was told by one Welsh LA that the intention was that when WBDS was up and running, screens across Wales would start to use live departure times.