Yeomans to withdraw from several Hereford local routes

[Citistar]

Having saved the network when First pulled the plug on the majority of their Hereford city services in 2015, Yeomans have announced that many of the city services they operate will cease at the end of the year. Company statement here.

I'm sure this won't be the only case of services being withdrawn or scaled back whilst Local Transport Authorities are waiting for their pot of gold to arrive from the DfT.PRESS RELEASE

Yeomans Travel have made the difficult decision to withdraw most of their commercial bus services in the City of Hereford, the last day being New Year’s Eve, Friday 31st December 2021.

Yeomans Travel has been family owned for over a century and currently provides bus and school services, contracts, private hire and holiday tours. In September 2015 we stepped in and kept the bus services running when First closed their Hereford depot citing that it was not viable to operate with such low passenger numbers.

Most of the Hereford city bus services are run on a commercial basis without any Council subsidy. The Government had given financial support to all bus companies during the Covid crisis to keep some services operating but this finished at the end of September. Since then we have continued to operate these services without support but this is not sustainable.

In recent years, and especially since the start of the Covid pandemic, the number of passengers carried has been in slow decline as more people have bought cars and traffic congestion in the city has got steadily worse. The rise of out-of-town shopping and employment centres has also reduced demand for travel into the city centre. There have been no discussions with local operators about bus priority or traffic issues until recently when the Government unveiled a package to local councils to assist bus travel.

We are now carrying only 50% of the numbers of bus passengers that we were carrying in 2019 and this is unfortunately typical of bus services across the whole of England and like many others are also having to absorb the large increase in fuel costs.

Whilst Yeomans Travel is aware that Herefordshire Council is working on a new Bus Strategy that will involve support for bus services across the County, we are having to act now to protect the future of the Company. We are upset that the Council have not even mentioned the reason we are stopping these services in their press release. When we informed them, with the reasons behind it, they offered no assistance or asked what they could do to help other than to ask us to carry on until April. If it is not financially viable, why would we continue until then? There was not even a thank you for stepping in with six weeks’ notice and solving the problems 6 years ago when First did the same thing only on a bigger scale.

Therefore the following services will be affected from this date:
City services 71 (Credenhill), 72 (Bobblestock), 74S (Bishops School), 77A (College Green and Bobblestock circular), 79A/88 (Putson and Redhill) will be withdrawn.
Service 74 to Newton Farm will continue to operate but the route via Hunderton will be withdrawn. Service 78/78X to Rotherwas/Skylon Park will also continue to run.

We had given Herefordshire Council the statutory notice required before withdrawing these bus services and they have already published a tender to operate emergency timetables on these routes, which they also failed to mention. These will now be financially supported, if we had been offered this we would have continued operating these services which would have meant no disruption to services at all and saved a lot of time and effort all round.

There are no job losses created by these changes and we will still be operating our subsidised services throughout Herefordshire.
We would like to thank our staff for their hard work and passengers for their custom and support over the years but we cannot continue to operate something that is not commercially viable.

I'm sure this won't be the only case of services being withdrawn or scaled back whilst Local Transport Authorities are waiting for their pot of gold to arrive from the DfT.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Having saved the network when First pulled the plug on the majority of their Hereford city services in 2015, Yeomans have announced that many of the city services they operate will cease at the end of the year. Company statement here.



I'm sure this won't be the only case of services being withdrawn or scaled back whilst Local Transport Authorities are waiting for their pot of gold to arrive from the DfT.

Indeed not - it's going to be a very chastening period.

A very ballsy statement from Yeomans, and have a great deal of sympathy with them. There are some good local authorities but all too often, they operate in a rarified atmosphere where real life fails to register. The one comment that I do take some issue with is the support that will now be provided and whether it could have been provided directly. Well, depends to what level and councils are tied to public sector procurement rules. However, the lack of engagement with local operators is sadly all too common...and Herefordshire have traditionally been a reasonable supporter of buses in the county.

 

[markymark2000]

To be fair, has anyone seen the state of the network. So many routes which just do a single trip while they try and send a single bus around every estate known to man to avoid using 2 buses and so many variations even with each route number. If the network was simpler, perhaps it would get used more. You can even add to that them avoiding new developments which could be a source of income. Far too much overlapping as well.

Also, not even attempting to reduce down the network (dropping half hourly to hourly) to make it more viable, just going from all to nothing. Very poor that from an operator. It's no wonder so many indies get a bad name when they do stuff like that. Not even an attempt at keeping a service.


Network could have a shakeup and be so much better but of course, that's out of the question. We must cut in full what we have because we are incapable of innovation and trying to make things viable.

 

[rcro]

It was not a surprise. Numbers travelling have never been particularly high and with the move to low floor it’s not really been possible to have buses that are small enough and cheap enough to keep the routes viable. The Mercedes 608/609s were the perfect buses.

Yeomans haven’t really been in for the commercial market (apart from maybe the Madley and Leominster routes) since ending their bus war with Midland Red West back in 1998 so they did well to take on the risk of expanding to cover for First back in 2015. But doing so after 17 years of First winding down the operation was always going to be difficult to be viable.

It will be interesting to see what Sargeants get up to after implausibly launching two routes in competition with Yeomans earlier in the year (Yeomans withdrew pretty quickly). I gather Stagecoach have announced the closure of Ross depot and shift operations to the Milkwall outstation so won’t be looking to pick up the “good” bits. Outcome probably will be that Yeomans wins the emergency tenders and carries on with the more socially important routes.

 

[Busaholic]

To be fair, has anyone seen the state of the network. So many routes which just do a single trip while they try and send a single bus around every estate known to man to avoid using 2 buses and so many variations even with each route number. If the network was simpler, perhaps it would get used more. You can even add to that them avoiding new deve lopments which could be a source of income. Far too much overlapping as well.

Also, not even attempting to reduce down the network (dropping half hourly to hourly) to make it more viable, just going from all to nothing. Very poor that from an operator. It's no wonder so many indies get a bad name when they do stuff like that. Not even an attempt at keeping a service.


Network could have a shakeup and be so much better but of course, that's out of the question. We must cut in full what we have because we are incapable of innovation and trying to make things viable.

Other than standing on a platform at Hereford Station while changing trains, I've never set foot in Hereford, so make no comment on the state of the Hereford bus network, either now or in the more recent past. However, bearing in mind two facts (a) that First chose to close their Hereford depot and cull their city network in 2015 and (b) that Yeomans has been operating in the area for over a century, I'm afraid I find your response to be mealy-mouthed, at the very least.

Yeomans cite passenger numbers halving on their commercially run network since 2019, which suggests to me that in the four years up to then their services were more attractive to Hereford people than you suggest. I take it from your disparaging comments on Yeomans that they haven't radically altered their routes in the last two years, so maybe they are now in a position where factors outside their control have produced the current situation.

As for halving the service rather than withdrawing it, that doesn't accord with your statement that Yeomans currently use as few buses as possible (always a sensible position imo for a firm that wishes to continue operating without subsidy) and only prolongs the position they find themselves in. They wouldn't have survived this long without a great deal of nous and it would be most unfair if First (say) were to tender for a network on the basis of loads of dead running, no doubt at huge cost, and get their tender awarded. I'm not having a 'go' at First by the way, but it's obvious to me from the press release that Yeomans feel shoddily treated by the County Council, with good cause (yes, I know about the tendering process protocols, but there are ways and means of conducting yourself more humanly.)

 

[markymark2000]

Yeomans cite passenger numbers halving on their commercially run network since 2019, which suggests to me that in the four years up to then their services were more attractive to Hereford people than you suggest. I take it from your disparaging comments on Yeomans that they haven't radically altered their routes in the last two years, so maybe they are now in a position where factors outside their control have produced the current situation.

Just because they halved in 2019, doesn't mean there wasn't a decline prior to that. Also just because they have been in the area for a while, doesn't mean they are a good firm. They may have good relationships on the coach side. Even the longest running firms can be awful when it comes to services. A few operators are proving that day in, day out. Operators simply cant be bothered with trying to make a network work, it's easier to winge and whine at a council for money to support their declining bus network rather than put even a minute worth of effort to listen to customers and trying to revamp the network to improve it.
Yeomans haven't majorly changed their routes and whatever, that is up to them but it's very easy to see how confusing the bus network is. You have areas with 1 route for AM peak, 1 route for core daytime and another route for evenings. It's a spaghetti network that makes no sense. I'd encourage you to go and look at their bus network and make sense of it. 2 route groups have about 7 different route numbers and even within them route numbers, different route variations.

As for halving the service rather than withdrawing it, that doesn't accord with your statement that Yeomans currently use as few buses as possible (always a sensible position imo for a firm that wishes to continue operating without subsidy) and only prolongs the position they find themselves in. They wouldn't have survived this long without a great deal of nous and it would be most unfair if First (say) were to tender for a network on the basis of loads of dead running, no doubt at huge cost, and get their tender awarded. I'm not having a 'go' at First by the way, but it's obvious to me from the press release that Yeomans feel shoddily treated by the County Council, with good cause (yes, I know about the tendering process protocols, but there are ways and means of conducting yourself more humanly.)

Yeomans use as few buses as possible in the peak times by merging multiple areas into a few routes. In the day, they seem to flood Hereford with buses but the majority of them on break, not working. During the day, dropping some routes frequency would merge some passengers onto the routes. Each trip takes 5 people perhaps, instead the less frequent route would take 7 people. More people, more viable. It doesn't nesecerilly prolong the situation, it's a case of reducing the frequency to use less resources and try to make it more viable by having 1 bus of 7 people rather than 2 buses of 5. It may kick the can down the road, it may be the difference between not viable and break even. Until you do it, you won't know for certain how many people will be put off buses by making such a move but that is a risk. An hourly bus though is significantly better than going from a half hourly service to nothing. There is no professional company who would make such a move.

 

[rcro]

Why assume that Yeomans could have done a better job?

I can’t admit to having personally used the city buses for many years but can imagine that the only reliable passenger loads would come from Newton Farm, Putson, Tupsley and maybe Bobblestock. By some coincidence those just happen to be the four routes that will still be commercial come January.

Look at the map for everywhere else - Credenhill, Moor Farm, Green Lanes, Belmont (I think this one went over the summer…), Hunderton, Red Hill - they are all only a short walking distance from main roads where there are already country buses running at least every hour. People in Bristol and many other large cities have to walk further. So, maybe the solution is to cut the city service completely and enhance the country one instead?

Yes, I can imagine there’ll be lots of angry people in newspapers but you can’t perform miracles in a world where fuel prices have risen 20% in six months and demand for drivers is pushing staff costs up too. It may be a case of small pond syndrome where it’s not yet widely appreciated that Hereford isn’t big enough to sustain a self contained network of city routes any more.

 

[peterblue]

That is already the norm in most towns - the interurbans / country services also act as 'local services' on the main roads out of town. Certainly in small to medium sized towns that struggle to support an extensive local network.

 

[M803UYA]

I guess it's just easier to operate a business which gets a subsidy cheque each month rather than to maintain a commercial network.

If 50% of the customers now travel, why not then operate 50% of the service level. A lot of Yeomans' city services have reduced timetables for Saturdays, requiring one less vehicle on each of the services. Why not provide that level of service instead?

Even where you have school buses sitting around (assuming those are low floor buses) you could then operate those between 0900-1400/1500 with a little imagination. If the council then thinks a peak service is important they can pay for it.

Why not look into smaller vehicles, such a Mellor bodied Mercedes Sprinter which have lower operating costs than an Optare solo.

If I'd 'won' a commercial network I'd not want to cede it readily. I don't think a business model entirely reliant on tenders is sustainable as you run the risk of losing some/all the work to other competitors.

 

[markymark2000]

Why assume that Yeomans could have done a better job?

Because they could have. No advertising, no consultation to try and get passengers views, no attempt at shrinking things slightly to get more people per trip. Shoddy. There are better cowboy operators out there. If you are stuck in the stone ages in terms of operations, be prepared to fail as quite simply, you won't succeed anymore. They haven't moved with the times and haven't tried to simplify the network. If the right operator was there, it'd be so different.

I can’t admit to having personally used the city buses for many years but can imagine that the only reliable passenger loads would come from Newton Farm, Putson, Tupsley and maybe Bobblestock. By some coincidence those just happen to be the four routes that will still be commercial come January.

Look at the map for everywhere else - Credenhill, Moor Farm, Green Lanes, Belmont (I think this one went over the summer…), Hunderton, Red Hill - they are all only a short walking distance from main roads where there are already country buses running at least every hour. People in Bristol and many other large cities have to walk further. So, maybe the solution is to cut the city service completely and enhance the country one instead?

The country buses aren't very good though and in some cases, while the stops may not be too far, it depends on the demographic of the area and you have to also consider the 400m walking distance from the main road stops (400m being the government recommendation) and ensure that as many people are covered as possible. I think some cases, country buses could work, in others it wouldn't.

Yes, I can imagine there’ll be lots of angry people in newspapers but you can’t perform miracles in a world where fuel prices have risen 20% in six months and demand for drivers is pushing staff costs up too. It may be a case of small pond syndrome where it’s not yet widely appreciated that Hereford isn’t big enough to sustain a self contained network of city routes any more.

There is a difference between performing miracles and trying to make things more viable. There is absolutely zero excuse to cut a route from half hourly to zilch citing viability when there is clearly no attempt to make it in any way more viable (including diversions or anything to other routes to keep some kind of service.


I don't get why everyone is backing Yeomans on this. IF this was a multi national doing the same thing, there would be all sorts of insults thrown their way but because it's a company who has been around a few years, they are instantly the good guys and council are the bad guys for not instantly giving money to Yeomans to keep things going on what is clearly a failing network. How dare a council not support a self inflicted failing business.

I guess it's just easier to operate a business which gets a subsidy cheque each month rather than to maintain a commercial network.

OH, substantially easier to run a tendered network than a commercial one. As we see day in, day out, it means you can push the blame onto someone else for the route and timetables. Pretty guaranteed money each month whether you take 1 or 1000 passengers. Little effort for marketing etc. It's great. This is why so many firms opt for this way of working because why put effort to get returns when instead you can just sit back, blame someone else and get paid a lot of money each month for it. It's the perfect business isn't it.

Why not look into smaller vehicles, such a Mellor bodied Mercedes Sprinter which have lower operating costs than an Optare solo.

Only issue is purchasing them. I think the Solos work and are mixed use with enough capacity for the school runs.

 

[M803UYA]

Because they could have. No advertising, no consultation to try and get passengers views, no attempt at shrinking things slightly to get more people per trip. Shoddy. There are better cowboy operators out there. If you are stuck in the stone ages in terms of operations, be prepared to fail as quite simply, you won't succeed anymore. They haven't moved with the times and haven't tried to simplify the network. If the right operator was there, it'd be so

OH, substantially easier to run a tendered network than a commercial one. As we see day in, day out, it means you can push the blame onto someone else for the route and timetables. Pretty guaranteed money each month whether you take 1 or 1000 passengers. Little effort for marketing etc. It's great. This is why so many firms opt for this way of working because why put effort to get returns when instead you can just sit back, blame someone else and get paid a lot of money each month for it. It's the perfect business isn't it.

Only issue is purchasing them. I think the Solos work and are mixed use with enough capacity for the school runs.

I notice from Flickr almost all the service buses show permanent school bus signage - thus indicating a suitable pool of vehicles which work during the peaks, and could (theoretically) work off peak. That'd ensure a minimum level of service whilst not committing additional resource. So why not make use of it? Same with reducing frequency. The very last thing I'd be considering is a route withdrawal.

Let's take it into context - would DRM of Bromyard, who also run into the city entertain withdrawing their commercial services? As David is rather 'community focused' he won't consider that option first off, but as the last resort.

There are some consultants out there who could 'review' the city network, gauge where the customers are boarding and tailor a new network to suit. The cost of such work would be less than the cost of purchasing a normal Optare Solo (4 figures). Obviously you have to want to spend the money, but again, it points to a risk aversion on the part of the owners. Yes, you probably don't have the in house knowledge to critically review your present network - but that's where you buy in some network planning knowledge from people that do. There's not too many consultants around who provide that knowledge, but they do exist. And they'd be fairly welcoming of the work at present.

Again, if I'd 'won' a city network and was providing the predominant mileage commercially I'd not want to cede it to other operators - which is what will happen when tenders change hands. The outcome of these withdrawals could well be the entry onto the city network of another operator, which then puts the 'tendered' side of their business in jeopardy.

There is some valid comment on Yeomans' own fb about the viability of sending a coach on a day excursion to Bristol with just 12 passengers - in response to the post announcing the withdrawal of the commercial services. Given minimum load factors are c20 passengers for a day tour/holiday that's something they should have not permitted to run by their own logic.

 

[AB93]

Also, not even attempting to reduce down the network (dropping half hourly to hourly) to make it more viable, just going from all to nothing. Very poor that from an operator. It's no wonder so many indies get a bad name when they do stuff like that. Not even an attempt at keeping a service.

There is absolutely zero excuse to cut a route from half hourly to zilch citing viability when there is clearly no attempt to make it in any way more viable.

"Zero excuses"? I don't follow your logic.

They will know the patronage and revenue on the current service.
They will know the operating costs for a half hourly service.
They will know the operating costs for an hourly service.

If current revenue is less than what the operating costs would be at hourly (which you're not privy to), then no, there's no point 'trying it hourly' first at all.

 

[M803UYA]

"Zero excuses"? I don't follow your logic.

They will know the patronage and revenue on the current service.
They will know the operating costs for a half hourly service.
They will know the operating costs for an hourly service.

If current revenue is less than what the operating costs would be at hourly (which you're not privy to), then no, there's no point 'trying it hourly' first at all.

Quite correct, we're just surmising here.

What we do know from the press release is that 50% of the customers no longer use the network.

Which is why I ask the question, why not provide 50% of the service accordingly, given that they already operate 'Saturday' timetables?

It's where I'd look as a first move before withdrawal of the services. I'd also be looking at different routings to service the existing customers.

 

[jammy36]

What we do know from the press release is that 50% of the customers no longer use the network.

Which is why I ask the question, why not provide 50% of the service accordingly, given that they already operate 'Saturday' timetables?

The issue being perhaps that providing 50% of the service doesn't necessarily reduce overheads by 50%. The business's fixed costs remain.

 

[Dai Corner]

Quite correct, we're just surmising here.

What we do know from the press release is that 50% of the customers no longer use the network.

Which is why I ask the question, why not provide 50% of the service accordingly, given that they already operate 'Saturday' timetables?

It's where I'd look as a first move before withdrawal of the services. I'd also be looking at different routings to service the existing customers.

Because reducing the service by 50% may well reduce passenger revenue further. You also have to take fixed costs into account.

 

[AB93]

Quite correct, we're just surmising here.

What we do know from the press release is that 50% of the customers no longer use the network.

Which is why I ask the question, why not provide 50% of the service accordingly, given that they already operate 'Saturday' timetables?

It's where I'd look as a first move before withdrawal of the services. I'd also be looking at different routings to service the existing customers.

Indeed, which I don't necessarily fall out with.

But I don't agree with the assertion there's 'zero excuse' to withdraw a half hourly service without trying hourly first - the operator will know the revenue and cost (+fixed costs as others have said) and if it's miles out, it will be patently obvious hourly won't work. If they were borderline viable in the first place at half hourly, and 50% off the patronage has gone, cutting to hourly isn't suddenly going to solve the issue. Again, as Dai says, cutting it to hourly will make it less attractive and probably reduce revenue further anyway.

 

[rcro]

The suggestion that community focused David Morris (DRM) would try something wildly different is a little off the mark. The Bromyard-Hereford route is one that, on paper, should do very well in having no rail alternatives, relatively high levels of deprivation, and next to no shops, supermarkets, workplaces or higher education shy of commuting into Hereford or Worcester or other town. Even under First the route sustained a 2 hourly frequency and was well loaded (and on to Worcester survived on lower loadings). Now it's declined to, what, 5 buses per day to Hereford; and good luck trying to go to Worcester. The service has declined to a level that is next to impossible to use.

Yes, in theory you might be able to reduce service frequencies to improve margins. First Midland Red were the experts at this... But there's a minimum frequency for people to actually consider using the bus at all and for a lot of Herefordshire that is higher than is viable now without subsidy.

 

[gingerheid]

I'll join the sympathy for bus operators crew here.

I accept the problem "50% of passengers" could be solved with "50% of frequency" if the frequency was every 5 or 10 mins. A bus every 30 mins means there'll probably be a bus within at least a kinda acceptable time period almost whenever you randomly decide you want one, and disruptions (to either you or the service) aren't awful. With an hourly service this is unlikely to happen, and disruptions are terrible. It's unlikely to be possible to keep those 50% of passengers if they half the service (I'll trust their judgement, because I'm sure they'd have gone for it if they thought they could).

In addition, operators have far more problems than just passenger numbers; driver numbers and fuel cost numbers. This is likely to be affecting the numbers adversely too - it's likely they'd need to retain more than the 50% of previous passengers they currently have in order to run 50% of the service!

Finally, plenty of operators have demonstrated that life running subsidised services isn't completely rosy. You are completely at risk of being squashed out in a race to the bottom, or the subsidies just no longer being offered.

 

[M803UYA]

The issue being perhaps that providing 50% of the service doesn't necessarily reduce overheads by 50%. The business's fixed costs remain.

I'm using the operator's own logic there - they would have the 'fixed costs' to consider - but the operating costs of providing half the service level as current would mean their needing to use less vehicles, less driving staff and needing to use less vehicles reduces the costs of maintaining a smaller fleet of vehicles. If you're short of skilled mechanics and driving staff, needing less of them eases the pressure on the business.

 

[Dai Corner]

I'm using the operator's own logic there - they would have the 'fixed costs' to consider - but the operating costs of providing half the service level as current would mean their needing to use less vehicles, less driving staff and needing to use less vehicles reduces the costs of maintaining a smaller fleet of vehicles. If you're short of skilled mechanics and driving staff, needing less of them eases the pressure on the business.

The other thing to consider is the opportunity cost; could the resources be better employed in other activities such as private hire or tours?

 

[markymark2000]

While fixed costs are around, these will be covered in large part by the school work, though of course, funky accounting could mean that the it's the service which covers the fixed costs. I think for me personally, it's not about 50% service, it's about a larger revamp. For example, halve the 72 and 77 (and route the 77 via the 72 route from Bobblestock to Hereford) and work these out so that they provide a combined half hourly service from Bobblestock to Hereford. That would use 50% resources while having not much impact on passengers (could be even less if you cut the 72 completely and let the 77 do all the work but that may upset some people Sheridan Road going on a tour of Hereford before getting home). 71/71A, drop that to 50% (as per Saturday timetable). 79A/88. Why can't the 78s or the 454 cover part of the estates. Given that is upto 3 buses per hour on almost the exact same route and for the sake of a 2-3 minute diversion, you could serve the areas at minimal cost.

Yeomans are clearly incapable of using a bit of brain power to make such changes so that people can still keep moving and can do so at minimal cost to them. It's not about 50% service for 50% passengers, it's a network revamp and trying to get as many people onto as few buses as possible. It's not rocket science, just takes a day or so to sit down and work out the best way of serving the estates at minimal cost. Instead, they are putting that responsibility on the council to plan the bus network and they just want paying for running the buses and not having to use any brain cells.

I'm sorry but if you can't be bothered to try and make things work, you shouldn't be in the industry and you should close down because quite simply, we don't need operators such as Yeomans dragging down the industry with their dismal ways of running down a network. Making it as confusing as possible, run bog standard buses, don't advertise and take passengers for granted then winge when no one uses your services. May be harsh, but it's the truth and all of you backing up Yeomans would be saying something completely different if it was Stagecoach or Arriva doing this.

 

[jammy36]

Yeomans are clearly incapable of using a bit of brain power to make such changes so that people can still keep moving and can do so at minimal cost to them. It's not about 50% service for 50% passengers, it's a network revamp and trying to get as many people onto as few buses as possible. It's not rocket science, just takes a day or so to sit down and work out the best way of serving the estates at minimal cost. Instead, they are putting that responsibility on the council to plan the bus network and they just want paying for running the buses and not having to use any brain cells.

Yeoman's are a business. They've made a business decision not to continue running these services. That is what businesses do. If it is as simple as you suggest and there's money to be made, then anyone else is welcome to run the services and collect that profit (you could do so if it's easy money). If no business wants to operate these services, then yes, it is the responsibility of the council. That's deregulation.

 

[Busaholic]

Yeoman's are a business. They've made a business decision not to continue running these services. That is what businesses do. If it is as simple as you suggest and there's money to be made, then anyone else is welcome to run the services and collect that profit (you could do so if it's easy money). If no business wants to operate these services, then yes, it is the responsibility of the council. That's deregulation.

Succinctly put.

 

[Westnat]

While fixed costs are around, these will be covered in large part by the school work, though of course, funky accounting could mean that the it's the service which covers the fixed costs. I think for me personally, it's not about 50% service, it's about a larger revamp. For example, halve the 72 and 77 (and route the 77 via the 72 route from Bobblestock to Hereford) and work these out so that they provide a combined half hourly service from Bobblestock to Hereford. That would use 50% resources while having not much impact on passengers (could be even less if you cut the 72 completely and let the 77 do all the work but that may upset some people Sheridan Road going on a tour of Hereford before getting home). 71/71A, drop that to 50% (as per Saturday timetable). 79A/88. Why can't the 78s or the 454 cover part of the estates. Given that is upto 3 buses per hour on almost the exact same route and for the sake of a 2-3 minute diversion, you could serve the areas at minimal cost.

Yeomans are clearly incapable of using a bit of brain power to make such changes so that people can still keep moving and can do so at minimal cost to them. It's not about 50% service for 50% passengers, it's a network revamp and trying to get as many people onto as few buses as possible. It's not rocket science, just takes a day or so to sit down and work out the best way of serving the estates at minimal cost. Instead, they are putting that responsibility on the council to plan the bus network and they just want paying for running the buses and not having to use any brain cells.

I'm sorry but if you can't be bothered to try and make things work, you shouldn't be in the industry and you should close down because quite simply, we don't need operators such as Yeomans dragging down the industry with their dismal ways of running down a network. Making it as confusing as possible, run bog standard buses, don't advertise and take passengers for granted then winge when no one uses your services. May be harsh, but it's the truth and all of you backing up Yeomans would be saying something completely different if it was Stagecoach or Arriva doing this.

Based on your logic other companies will obviously be queuing up run town services in Hereford.

 

[carlberry]

Yeoman's statement does contain a suggestion of naivety about supporting the services (i.e. that the council could just give them the money to run the services rather than going out to tender) however all they've done is decided what is viable and agree to operate that. Suggestions that 'halving that frequency and rerouting that bus' is based on guesswork whereas Yeomans would have the actual figures. It's quite possible the were looking at cutting frequency or services before Covid and the government bailout has just mean that the decision could be delayed. Sargents running some local services is also going to have effected the finances of the operation.
Could they have done more, almost certainly. Would it have made a difference, who knows. Is anybody going to step in and run the services they've giving up without subsidy, no.
Yeomans are certainly held in a higher regard by enthuiasts than they perhaps should be because of their history. However they were willing to give the Hereford services a go after First gave up on them which was a significant increase in their size at the time. All operators are looking at a very bleak period between the end of the government Covid bailout and the arrival of whatever scraps of money are available in the future, with no guarantee that the future is actually going to be one that encourages smaller operators.

 

[markymark2000]

Based on your logic other companies will obviously be queuing up run town services in Hereford.

That isn't what is being said and you know it. What I am saying is changes could and should be made before withdrawing services and leaving areas without a bus service and putting a few braincells together (which this operator seems to lack), the situation could be significantly different.

It is by no means prime bus operating territory however if effort is put in, there could be potential there.

 

[carlberry]

That isn't what is being said and you know it. What I am saying is changes could and should be made before withdrawing services and leaving areas without a bus service and putting a few braincells together (which this operator seems to lack), the situation could be significantly different.

It is by no means prime bus operating territory however if effort is put in, there could be potential there.

What would your criteria be to allow an operator to withdraw a service then? Can services only be withdrawn if they've been progressively reduced to only running on one day a week? How long does an operator have to operate at a loss for? Surely if an operator isn't 'capable of putting a few brain cells together' to run a service properly it's better if they do withdraw and allow somebody else to try.
None of this is intended to defend Yeomans, however they're not giving up on some prime territory that other operators are going to be rushing into and theres several other operators capable of bidding for any contracts that come up if the council decide the services need replacing.

 

[Busaholic]

If it was Stagecoach, Arriva or First that had done this and moved their operations out of a town/small city, save perhaps for one or two routes from a neighbouring town, there'd be moans and groans but nobody would claim they owed it to the people of x to carry on, whereas some hold a small operator to much higher standards even if keeping buses running might lead to disintegration of that business.Strange, isn't it?

 

[markymark2000]

What would your criteria be to allow an operator to withdraw a service then? Can services only be withdrawn if they've been progressively reduced to only running on one day a week? How long does an operator have to operate at a loss for?

When an operator is saying that things aren't viable, they should be making an effort to try and make it viable. For routes as frequent as these, options such as reduced timetables should be explored to try and make that work as well as potentially changing up the network (including full network reviews to see where country routes could cover some parts of the network) and undertaking some kind of local consultation to see what can be done to get people onto the service. If an hourly route isn't viable, options then can be looked at for 2 hourly or full withdrawal, depending on what the possible viability is. You should never jump from half hourly though to nothing citing viability, you should always make a change to try and make it viable, even if that is only for 3 months (plus the registration period to cancel the service). Of course in the instance of a town network, it would be daft to reduce it to anything less than hourly or 2 hourly in some instances. Anything lower is basically useless for a town route. I have given examples above of what they could do to reduce costs and improve viability be merging routes.
Operators shouldn't be running at a loss for silly amounts of time because anyone with any sense would be trying to do something to improve viability.

Surely if an operator isn't 'capable of putting a few brain cells together' to run a service properly it's better if they do withdraw and allow somebody else to try.
None of this is intended to defend Yeomans, however they're not giving up on some prime territory that other operators are going to be rushing into and theres several other operators capable of bidding for any contracts that come up if the council decide the services need replacing.

I do agree with you to be fair on that. IF they can't get their act together, they should withdraw and give someone else a chance but in which case, they shouldn't have taken the routes on in the first place.

I know they aren't in prime teritory and other operators aren't going to be swooping in to get routes, they are just doing it in the hope of getting funding because thats what lazy operators do. More money and less work for them. Bit of a no brainer and given the location, they probably know that they will get the tender anyway so it's a case of rinse the taxpayer for funding because it's guaranteed money, means no risk and they can keep plodding on. As even their statement shows though, they will be upset if they dont get the tenders.

If it was Stagecoach, Arriva or First that had done this and moved their operations out of a town/small city, save perhaps for one or two routes from a neighbouring town, there'd be moans and groans but nobody would claim they owed it to the people of x to carry on, whereas some hold a small operator to much higher standards even if keeping buses running might lead to disintegration of that business.Strange, isn't it?

It's not owed to the people to carry on, it is owed to the people though to at least TRY and make changes and try to improve the situation or ease the impact, such as a network review to try and cover areas with usage, even if it's on a lower frequency, to provide a bus still.

 

[Westnat]

That isn't what is being said and you know it. What I am saying is changes could and should be made before withdrawing services and leaving areas without a bus service and putting a few braincells together (which this operator seems to lack), the situation could be significantly different.

It is by no means prime bus operating territory however if effort is put in, there could be potential there.

It is what you are saying. Didn't First do exactly the same thing when they withdrew from Hereford? If indeed there is potential then surely other operators will be happy to step in and run the services commercially?