Techniquest
Veteran Member
Personally I hope it's successful for Edinburgh Airport to city centre journeys, although I suspect once I've been up there and done the line/stations I'll rarely use it.
Aye trams where they're useful work well fair play. Dublin's tram system proves that, it's well used all day long every day. Hopefully they'll get their proposed new lines open one day, more so the DART extension to the airport...
I guess there's only one way to see if Edinburgh's lot will do well or not, only a few weeks to find out!
Ive only visited Edinburgh about a decade ago (not lived there), but I got the strong impression that the bus system was excellent. Especially the bus service from the airport. Was there any actual reason to upgrade to trams for that route?
Not really.
The Airlink serves the Corstorphine corridor, which has lots of hotels. The tram takes the Stenhouse/Broomhouse corridor, and serves very few hotels, other than those in the city centre, which the 100 also serves.
What realistically were the alternatives to a tram network? If buses were to be kept as the main form of transport then you would eventually need to build a trolleybus network so that they don't all belch diesel fumes into the city centre.
The vast majority of the problems that I have seen in the tram scheme have been in the street-running sections and I don't think there is realistically any way of preventing traffic problems without the massive investment necessary for a grade-separated (i.e. underground) system.
Have a look on the side of the buses, where the company text is. You'll notice that it now says LTD rather than PLC.
Some of the problems around the East End are caused by the trams not actually fitting between the sets of lights, so that when the traffic builds up, the tram ends up blocking junctions.
That's another thing - none of the tram drivers appear to have been taught forward planning, and just carry on through junctions up to the back of whatever traffic is ahead of them, regardless of whether they're going to block the junctions or not.
A PLC is a subtype of a Limited Company, indicating its shares are freely tradable. Lothian buses has never been a PLC.1
Have the police ever expressed any views on that matter concerning the effect on road traffic that you describe above ?
That's another thing - none of the tram drivers appear to have been taught forward planning, and just carry on through junctions up to the back of whatever traffic is ahead of them, regardless of whether they're going to block the junctions or not.
I need to have a look into that, because I'm sure the buses all had PLC on the side up until fairly recently.
I don't know when it actually changed, but I can find photos from a couple of years back which definitely show 'LOTHIAN BUSES plc' on the side of the bus.
I've given up trying to find anything more recent, as it seems almost nobody takes photos with the text visible.
I'd have been in favour of trolleybuses, especially those which can run on batteries through the city centre, so we don't have to have ugly wires hanging everywhere.
I must say, I really don't like the wires through the city centre. They look awful and the poles they're attached to are horrible. I wouldn't have minded so much if they used systems such as those in Bordeaux and Tours, where the trams run on 3rd rail through the centre which is only energised on the sections the tram is currently on, but use overheads elsewhere.
We already have some hybrid buses in the fleet, including Volvo single decks with stop start that will run on batteries at low speed when they have enough charge (with another 20 currently being delivered - it's not the best system in the world, but it's fairly decent when it works and you get a driver who actually uses it properly), and there have been electric buses in for evaluation a couple of times over the past couple of years.
It would help if the trams weren't stupidly long.
It would have been a better solution to run shorter trams that can be doubled up in the peaks if necessary, in my opinion.
Some of the problems around the East End are caused by the trams not actually fitting between the sets of lights, so that when the traffic builds up, the tram ends up blocking junctions.
That's another thing - none of the tram drivers appear to have been taught forward planning, and just carry on through junctions up to the back of whatever traffic is ahead of them, regardless of whether they're going to block the junctions or not.
Oh, I'm surprised, but it is possible. However the change in lettering does not have to be in line with any change in the type of company. It's certainly still council-owned.
What realistically were the alternatives to a tram network? If buses were to be kept as the main form of transport then you would eventually need to build a trolleybus network so that they don't all belch diesel fumes into the city centre. The vast majority of the problems that I have seen in the tram scheme have been in the street-running sections and I don't think there is realistically any way of preventing traffic problems without the massive investment necessary for a grade-separated (i.e. underground) system.
Actually it was a PLC since deregulation in 1986 - all the shares just happened to be owned by the 4 Lothian councils.A PLC is a subtype of a Limited Company, indicating its shares are freely tradable. Lothian buses has never been a PLC.
Lothian is 91% owed by Edinburgh city council with the other 9% being owned by other local councils.
Actually it was a PLC since deregulation in 1986 - all the shares just happened to be owned by the 4 Lothian councils.
It went:
Edinburgh Corporation Transport department
Lothian Regional Transport (when the regional council was created in the 1970s)
Lothian Regional Transport PLC (upon deregulation)
Lothian Buses PLC (name change around 2000)
They re-registered as a private limited company last December as CEC's 91% in Lothian Buses was transferred to Transport for Edinburgh Limited (which also owns 100% of the tram company). Transport for Edinburgh Limited is in turn 100% owned by Edinburgh Council. The other 9% of Lothian Buses is split between the other 3 Lothian councils.
Some of the problems around the East End are caused by the trams not actually fitting between the sets of lights, so that when the traffic builds up, the tram ends up blocking junctions.
That's another thing - none of the tram drivers appear to have been taught forward planning, and just carry on through junctions up to the back of whatever traffic is ahead of them, regardless of whether they're going to block the junctions or not.
As it should be - admittedly not sure of the exact phrasing, when running in such situations the tram should proceed when instructed as far as possible into section rather than wait as 'good manners'. This avoids both inadvertently proceeding when permission is not given and entering a section without authority, and any potential conflict between road users and tram when the tram may wish to restart.
What would you rather? Impede the flow of traffic or run the risk of the tram colliding with traffic when the tram restarts at the same time as the traffic? Sure, neither is great, and the solution should be to try where possible to phase signals to avoid this, but it's the safer approach.
While the trams are introduced on 31st May, the 1st of June will see the quarterly comprehensive service change for the majority of timetables, with many seeing an increase in frequency.
One of note is that Airlink will run 24/7. As it hasn't been announced otherwise, N22 will continue to operate.
The 20 will also be extended to Ratho.
An interesting one personally is that the N30, having previously been withdrawn to Friday and Saturday nights only in October 2008, will now run all week. An interesting u-turn by LB there, and just in time for the summer holidays!
Ian Craig talks a lot about bus and tram integration, which is fair enough, but I'm not quite sure what the intention is for a change of this size. Will it do anything to improve tram ridership? Obviously, it will be a case of wait and see, but on paper at least, I'm not convinced.
Single Tickets
Adult:
£1.50 for City Zone travel (all stops excluding Edinburgh Airport)
£5.00 for Airport Zone travel (all stops)
Child aged 5-15:
£0.70 for City Zone travel (all stops excluding Edinburgh Airport)
£2.50 for Airport Zone travel (all stops)
...
TRAM fares to Edinburgh Airport are being increased even before the first fee-paying passenger has set foot on board.
New price lists reveal a return journey to the airport has risen to £8 a 50p increase on fares announced last September and £1 more expensive than the Airlink bus service.
Single journeys to the airport will cost £5.
The price rises contrast sharply with the £1.50 flat fare across the rest of the tram network raising questions about whether a stealth tourist tax is being heaped on visitors to Edinburgh.
Do tram drivers not have eyes?
So, in a sentence: the tram will be slower, less frequent, and more expensive than the bus to the airport.
And if the Ingliston P&R is in the 'Airport Zone', then they're basically forcing people to pay an extra £1 each way to and from town if they want to continue using it.
http://www.edinburghtrams.com/tickets/cash-fares said:City Zone travel (all stops excluding Edinburgh Airport)
Curious that it coincides perfectly with the 12 being cut back so there's now going to be no bus service from Ingliston P&R to Princes Street. :roll:
There's also going to be no service from there to the zoo either, so I'm predicting a lot of unhappy people this summer.
Also, a return on the tram to the airport (an open return I would assume?) is £8, whereas a day ticket (all trams to the airport and buses) is £9. I appreciate the area served is a lot bigger, but that's still pretty steep. AFAIK it's also unconventional for a day return price to be more expensive than open return (albeit, larger area).