UEFA Champions League Final 2017

[DaveHarries]

Evening all,

Just been looking on RealTimeTrains for the 3rd and 4th of June to see what is being planned in terms of extra trains for the UEFA Champions League final which is to be held in Cardiff on the 3rd. Well, I expected a *few* STP workings but I never saw coming what is planned for the early hours of Sunday 4th June: it looks as if GWR and Arriva Trains Wales will be paying a lot of money in overtime wages for a lot of drivers. I think NR (or whoever provides the train despatchers at Cardiff Central) will be paying quite a bit in overtime as well. Presumably security will also be on duty so quite an expensive night by the looks of things.

As I write this post GWR, for example, is shown as running 4 trains an hour between Cardiff Central and Paddington all night with the last one from Cardiff Central booked to leave at 0400hrs to arrive 0618hrs! There are also a few ECS workings back from Reading TCD and London Paddington: ECS workings from Paddington include 5Z80 & 5Z85 (0115 Paddington - Landore TMD, arr. 0440, and 0300 Paddington - Swansea, arr. 0547 respectively). There are also very late workings up to Hereford (2 tph, last at 0304hrs) and Gloucester (2tph, last at 0340).

It looks to me as if someone has accidentally gone somewhat overboard with the train planning......

Cardiff Central, 03rd June: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/CDF/2017/06/03/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
Cardiff Central, 04th June: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/CDF/2017/06/04/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt <= 0000 - 0630 = hock:hock:hock:

Although I can see a lot of that getting possibly knocked off due to a lack of passengers toward the end of the night it is interesting to note that some of those late ECS workings from Reading are pathed as 165/166.....

Dave

 

[TimboM]

Presumably there's an element of "all bases covered" with these additional paths and once they know who's playing and where they're likely to be travelling from (airports/ports no doubt) they'll firm things up.

Having travelled 'away' in Europe previously (to Wembley and Anfield ironically!) there's a UEFA requirement to fill in a travel form as to your intended mode/time etc. of travel - which I'm assuming helps all those in the transport business revise plans (if needed) nearer the time.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

It looks to me as if someone has accidentally gone somewhat overboard with the train planning......

Part of the reason for moving the CL Final from Wednesday to Saturday was to allow more people to be involved in the event ie non-ticket holders being able to sample the atmosphere during the day and then watch the match itself on a big screen in a "fan park" though some would doubtless be content with a pub/bar if possible. This gives locals (who may themselves travel from quite a distance away) a chance to say "I was there" (well, sort of). It's also intended to give the host city a greater economic boost thereby making some of the inevitable disruption more palatable.

One problem with this year is that previous Saturday finals have all been in "traditional" football cities (Madrid, London x2, Munich, Lisbon, Berlin, Milan). However Cardiff is breaking new ground, at least for football, so it may be more difficult to forecast just what the "local" attendance will be. It may well be that the apparently over generous provision is a case of erring on the safe side. You may also be sure that planning has been going on for many months already with many different options considered.

Next year's final is scheduled for Kiev: could be interesting!

Although I can see a lot of that getting possibly knocked off due to a lack of passengers toward the end of the night it is interesting to note that some of those late ECS workings from Reading are pathed as 165/166.....

While that may be possible I would hope that the decision will be taken by BTP and not the TOCs. Also consider that in the event of a large number of non-ticket holding visitors attending that the numbers needing transport home would very quickly overwhelm the usual late evening service provision. One thing very much in Cardiff's favour is quite long experience in crowd management at Central Station.

 

[Clansman]

While that may be possible I would hope that the decision will be taken by BTP and not the TOCs. Also consider that in the event of a large number of non-ticket holding visitors attending that the numbers needing transport home would very quickly overwhelm the usual late evening service provision. One thing very much in Cardiff's favour is quite long experience in crowd management at Central Station.

It's an event planner's dream that the host stadium is right next to a major rail station, so at 10-11 at night the transport links will cope very well.

In stark contrast to Hampden Park's (Glasgow) transport links, where Mount Florida station sees queues for at least 2 hours after a match - making Cardiff Central an event planner's dream.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

It's an event planner's dream that the host stadium is right next to a major rail station, so at 10-11 at night the transport links will cope very well.

In stark contrast to Hampden Park's (Glasgow) transport links, where Mount Florida station sees queues for at least 2 hours after a match - making Cardiff Central an event planner's dream.

Quite so, at least for the "natives". Though it could be argued in this and similar cases that the proximity of the "fan park" to the station is actually more important: an awful lot of the fans of the participants will still be travelling by air and will inevitably be bussed from/to the airport(s).

The down side with Cardiff is a relative lack of aviation facilities, though this is being remedied by the installation of a temporary terminal (perhaps passenger processor would be more accurate!) at Cardiff and plenty of flights being handled at Bristol. As I said it will be very interesting to see the approach taken next year in Kiev.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Off Topic Question but could the Final be moved next year if a Russian team makes the final? extremely unlikely but still a hypothetical question?

 

[louis97]

it is interesting to note that some of those late ECS workings from Reading are pathed as 165/166.....

No doubt that is just to get them off the Depot, as no HST running times exist. From Scours Lane they are most likely timed as an HST, RTT not showing the change of timing load.

 

[43096]

Off Topic Question but could the Final be moved next year if a Russian team makes the final? extremely unlikely but still a hypothetical question?

No.

Chelsea played Bayern München in the 2012 final in the Allianz Arena in München, which is Bayern's home ground.

 

[TimboM]

No.

Chelsea played Bayern München in the 2012 final in the Allianz Arena in München, which is Bayern's home ground.

Since the European Cup/Champions League began in 1956, 12 finals have included teams playing in their home country (including English clubs playing at Wembley 3 times) and of those 12, 3 have included teams playing in their home ground.

Conversely, when a final has included two clubs from the same nation playing in a somewhat inconvenient location (e.g. Chelsea vs Manchester Utd in Moscow in 2008) they haven't changed the chosen venue either.

 

[greatkingrat]

I think you have missed the point, Kiev is in Ukraine so wouldn't be a "home" game for any Russian club that might qualify. The issue would be the current state of Russia - Ukraine relations causing potential visa problems. This is why Russia will not be taking part in this years Eurovision Song Contest in Kiev.

 

[TimboM]

I think you have missed the point, Kiev is in Ukraine so wouldn't be a "home" game for any Russian club that might qualify. The issue would be the current state of Russia - Ukraine relations causing potential visa problems. This is why Russia will not be taking part in this years Eurovision Song Contest in Kiev.

Ah, I see now... can't see it going down too well if a Russian team were there. However, I think that's about as likely as Leicester City winning the Premier League...

 

[Phil from Mon]

I see the Welsh Government have sourced 21 HSTs to make everything OK now. According to the BBC today

Champions League football fans have been promised 21 post-match high speed trains from Cardiff to "avoid the embarrassment" of a repeat of the Rugby World Cup travel chaos.
About 60,000 travellers are expected to pass through Cardiff Central station following the 3 June showpiece.
Economy Secretary Ken Skates said Wales had "learned lessons" after an inquiry into the long delays in 2015.
The Welsh Government has "taken on board" the risk of reputational damage.
Wales also wants to bid to European football's governing body Uefa for a second Champions League final if this one is a success.
"If we deliver the Champions League well and Uefa are content, it will place us in a good position to bid for the final again," Mr Skates told the BBC.
Rugby supporters queued for up to four hours after the Ireland v Canada World Cup game in September 2015 and Great Western Railway apologised for underestimating passenger numbers.
"The scale of activity for the Champions League final is unprecedented and travel management logistics are on a different scale," said Mr Skates.
"There will be 15,000 more passenger spaces post-match than was at the Rugby World Cup, that is a huge increase in the number of places on trains.
"We're also going to have significant increase in capacity for trains to other parts of the UK where we know people are going to be staying such as Birmingham and Bristol."
"In terms of rail and the need to avoid any embarrassment, there is a joint working group involving all of the rail operators and Network Rail."
Real Madrid and Juventus are in commanding positions to reach the final after beating Atletico Madrid and Monaco respectively in the first leg of the semi-finals.
Network Rail said it was "fully on board" and the Welsh Government has been promised there will be no network disruptions or upgrade work taking place to minimise the risk of delays.
Bruce Williamson of Railway campaign group Railfuture said: "The reputational damage not having the required transport capacity after such a major international sporting event could be huge and extremely detrimental to Wales.
"We're glad Wales is placing so much emphasis on railway journeys and we hope, for their sake, they have learned from their mistakes as it could counter-productive to attracting more major events in the future."
As well as rail passengers, an estimated 25,000 people are expected to fly in and out of airports in Cardiff, Birmingham and Bristol.
Also, about 1,250 coaches will bring passengers in and out of Cardiff on 3 June.

 

[BestWestern]

Network Rail said it was "fully on board" and the Welsh Government has been promised there will be no network disruptions or upgrade work taking place to minimise the risk of delays.

A bit different to London Marathon day then, when NR decided, at very short notice, to completely close the line into Paddington for the morning...

 

[87015]

Network Rail said it was "fully on board" and the Welsh Government has been promised there will be no network disruptions or upgrade work taking place to minimise the risk of delays.

A bit different to London Marathon day then, when NR decided, at very short notice, to completely close the line into Paddington for the morning...

Agreed by GWR of course. Other operators said no, but wouldn't have been getting such a big cheque as a result.

 

[Kite159]

Network Rail said it was "fully on board" and the Welsh Government has been promised there will be no network disruptions or upgrade work taking place to minimise the risk of delays.

A bit different to London Marathon day then, when NR decided, at very short notice, to completely close the line into Paddington for the morning...

Good to see the Network Rail's crystal ball in action, cue a complete signalling system failure at Newport/Swindon/Reading/Slough etc

 

[PHILIPE]

Good to see the Network Rail's crystal ball in action, cue a complete signalling system failure at Newport/Swindon/Reading/Slough etc

Probably more good luck than anything else that the routes are available because Network don't often back down as work is planned so far in advance and staff and equipment allocated

 

[Bald Rick]

Network Rail said it was "fully on board" and the Welsh Government has been promised there will be no network disruptions or upgrade work taking place to minimise the risk of delays.

A bit different to London Marathon day then, when NR decided, at very short notice, to completely close the line into Paddington for the morning...

Engineering work at very short notice is only done in an emergency. I don't know the details, but it is quite likely that it was a case of do the work Sunday, or the line is blocked on Monday.

 

[Bald Rick]

Probably more good luck than anything else that the routes are available because Network don't often back down as work is planned so far in advance and staff and equipment allocated

The decision to have the final in Cardiff was taken in 2015, long before the final plan for engineering work in 2017 would have been agreed.

 

[amateur]

What did people think of today's game and yesterday's

 

[Mikey C]

I see the Welsh Government have sourced 21 HSTs to make everything OK now. According to the BBC today

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18241.0

So there are trains every 15 minutes from 2300 to 0400. Is anyone really wanting to be catching a train back at 2am, arriving at some horrible time in the morning at Paddington?

 

[philthetube]

Does this mean that the Welsh government are hiring the trains and keeping revenue?

 

[BestWestern]

Engineering work at very short notice is only done in an emergency. I don't know the details, but it is quite likely that it was a case of do the work Sunday, or the line is blocked on Monday.

There have been a couple of bouts of weekend closures with minimal notice, I think. It isn't emergency works, I think it has more to do with deadlines relating to wiring to Maidenhead, and seizing opportunities to get decent chunks of it done.

 

[LordCreed]

Network Rail keeps playing the "If you don't give us access, then the electrification won't be ready in time" card. This Saturday is another example where they've taken a last minute block of platforms 1-3 at Paddington on the one day where there isn't a two track railway. Anyways, a little off topic...

Not sure how optimistic the train service is till the event happens, but it's better to have more capacity than not enough.

 

[D1009]

I'd be interested in how it is possible to guarantee train crew availability for so many trains.

(Edit) From what I can see the only available detail is that shown on RTT and similar sites, none of the detail has yet been officially advertised to the public.

 

[The Planner]

The decision to have the final in Cardiff was taken in 2015, long before the final plan for engineering work in 2017 would have been agreed.

First version of the EAS 17 would have been end of October 15.

 

[ivanhoe]

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18241.0

So there are trains every 15 minutes from 2300 to 0400. Is anyone really wanting to be catching a train back at 2am, arriving at some horrible time in the morning at Paddington?

Given my experience in Athens, 2007, when I had to kill time between midnight and 06.00 am, I'd say there will be quite a few who will wish to travel. Football fans are used to it and by and large will welcome what's been promised.

 

[richw]

Does this mean that the Welsh government are hiring the trains and keeping revenue?

My understanding in the Welsh government and/or FA are chartering them. They'll pay a charter fee and then keep the revenue.

 

[Kite159]

Heard the first "unless your travel is essential, avoid the area" style message at Trowbridge earlier.

Going to be a nightmare for regular non-football related travellers that day

 

[jopsuk]

Nightbuses from Paddington will be busy then. is Thameslink running properly? People will be after connections to the airports for early flights home (primarily, but not exclusively, to Turin and Madrid)

 

[Bungle965]

Nightbuses from Paddington will be busy then. is Thameslink running properly? People will be after connections to the airports for early flights home (primarily, but not exclusively, to Turin and Madrid)

The only work going on for Thameslink is on the Sunday with engineering works between Streatham / West Croydon and Epsom so nothing of major significance for any football fans wanting to catch flights.
Sam