What is the point in London Overground serving Watford Junction?

[bengley]

I was at Watford junction today and was refused entry through the barriers with a zone 1-9 Underground ticket.

They shouldn't serve Watford Junction if people can't even use their tickets there.

The woman from London Midland was quite rude to me too.


Plus I thought that with LOROL winning the Silverlink franchise, they were meant to be extending the use of Underground tickets to Watford High Street and Watford Junction.

 

[MCR247]

IIRC you cant use those tickets to Watford. Just because you didnt have correct ticket dosent mean they shouldnt serve there. Whats the point in any train then? THe same can be said then

 

[CCF23]

You can't use a 1-9 travelcard (needs to be 1-9 + Watford Junction) or Oyster from Watford Junction but with your travelcard get a bus about 5 mins journey 1-9 travelcard is accepted to Watford High Street where you Oyster or 1-9 travelcard is accepted.
And anyway London Overground need Watford Junction to reverse their trains and i think they may soon accept 1-9 travelcard and oyster at Watford Junction.

 

[bengley]

You can't use a 1-9 travelcard (needs to be 1-9 + Watford Junction) or Oyster from Watford Junction but with your travelcard get a bus about 5 mins journey 1-9 travelcard is accepted to Watford High Street where you Oyster or 1-9 travelcard is accepted.
And anyway London Overground need Watford Junction to reverse their trains and i think they may soon accept 1-9 travelcard and oyster at Watford Junction.

I hope they do. That's what they said they were going to do when they were just starting the franchise.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

IIRC you cant use those tickets to Watford. Just because you didnt have correct ticket dosent mean they shouldnt serve there. Whats the point in any train then? THe same can be said then

Because if I go on a Train using THEIR tickets, I expect to be able to go to a station they call at.

If you bought a plane ticket to Australia and you got there and they told you that you'd have to go back to Hong Kong to buy an additional ticket for the leg to Australia, there's no doubt you'd be extremely ****ed off.

 

[MCR247]

Well, no as a travelcard is a tfl ticket, not london overground

 

[Daniel]

Mate, it's the same as having a Zones 1-2 ticket in zone 3.

You had a 1-9, Watford Junction is in zone W. Ticket will be 1-9W.

You may be using their ticket, but just because I have a First Scotrail ticket between Glasgow and Edinburgh doesn't mean I can get on the Caledonian Sleeper at Euston, just because they run trains there.

I admit you may have just been mis-informed or sold the wrong ticket, but still the point stands that your ticket was not valid from that station, on that service, in the same situation that a Z1-2 ticket isn't valid in Z3.

 

[t0ffeeman]

LOROL do have a depot at Watford so it'll be nice if the staff can get into the station where they work some trains....

The Zones 1-9+W Travelcard is a LM issue , LM wanting extra money than TFL. Watford Met & a few others north are in Zone 7, Watford High St in Zone 8

 

[bengley]

Mate, it's the same as having a Zones 1-2 ticket in zone 3.

You had a 1-9, Watford Junction is in zone W. Ticket will be 1-9W.

You may be using their ticket, but just because I have a First Scotrail ticket between Glasgow and Edinburgh doesn't mean I can get on the Caledonian Sleeper at Euston, just because they run trains there.

I admit you may have just been mis-informed or sold the wrong ticket, but still the point stands that your ticket was not valid from that station, on that service, in the same situation that a Z1-2 ticket isn't valid in Z3.

Where I paid for my ticket at Chesham, they do not sell 1-9w tickets (At the machines at least). Why should I be expected to pay for a new ticket just to go 1 stop extra?

 

[MCR247]

Why do you refer to it as LOROL?

 

[t0ffeeman]

LOROL is the name for MTR Laing.... London Overground Rail Operations Ltd. Its been going for a while....

 

[westcoaster]

LOROL do have a depot at Watford so it'll be nice if the staff can get into the station where they work some trains....

The Zones 1-9+W Travelcard is a LM issue , LM wanting extra money than TFL. Watford Met & a few others north are in Zone 7, Watford High St in Zone 8

the lorol and lm staff based at watford will use there gate passes, or let through by revenue, there is also a gate on plat 9, that comes from the car park.

obviously lm want more money because everyone will use their services from watford to euston, as know-one in there right mind would go down by DC.

 

[t0ffeeman]

You should have got a 1-9+W Travelcard at Chesham as that is a LUL station. I suppose you didn't think necessary to ask for one...and why would you when its not publicised...

Barry Doe kicked off an argument in that any LM travelcard issued valid north of Watford Junction therefore had to be unlimited travel between Watford J and Amersham and Zones 1-6.

Can anyone confirm whether this was confirmed by ATOC/LUL?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Fricking hell you people are fantastic!

I call my firm LOROL because my firm WANT to be called that. So we do.
There is no difference in the ticket prices between using LOROL/ LM or Southern. All inter -avaliable.

 

[westcoaster]

they may be all interchangable but in reality this will happen;

southern- only go as far as harrow and wealdstone, and then kenny o & clapham ( not many commuters will change out at harrow for the backerloo line)

lorol- go to euston but a journey time off 45+ mins and lots of stop starting, not worth it time wise.

lm- 16 mins direct into euston add 4 mins for a stopping service.

you can see which way the punters will go, so can lm, they dont want to loose all the custom when it is shared around but they take the vast majority of the passengers.

 

[dan_atki]

Several pointless posts have been removed - stop the bickering please.

 

[t0ffeeman]

they may be all interchangable but in reality this will happen;

southern- only go as far as harrow and wealdstone, and then kenny o & clapham ( not many commuters will change out at harrow for the backerloo line)

lorol- go to euston but a journey time off 45+ mins and lots of stop starting, not worth it time wise.

lm- 16 mins direct into euston add 4 mins for a stopping service.

you can see which way the punters will go, so can lm, they dont want to loose all the custom when it is shared around but they take the vast majority of the passengers.

Had the whole LM & Southern on my trains about 4 times in the last 2 weeks.
When they're told that a LM train "may turn up" in the next 30 mins at Euston they get on the DC. Especially that LM love missing out Harrow & Bushey when things go tits up.

As there are overhead probs at Harrow, Southern don't go any further north than Shepherds Bush so after being full at Euston get another full load at Willesden J who can't think of getting on...

Your idea works ok when things are normal westcoaster, but things don't normally run as normal....

 

[Daniel]

Where I paid for my ticket at Chesham, they do not sell 1-9w tickets (At the machines at least). Why should I be expected to pay for a new ticket just to go 1 stop extra?

Although it is not on the main page, (which is reserved for most popular tickets for that particular station), provided Chesham has an 'MFM' machine, (or any ticket machine with a touch-screen), which I think it does have, then a 1-9W is available on those machines. A 1-9W is even available at Epping!

A suggestion for the future is to perhaps excess the ticket? IIRC I was taught to refund the 1-9 and sell at 1-W in the same transaction, meaning you are only charged the difference.

 

[bengley]

Although it is not on the main page, (which is reserved for most popular tickets for that particular station), provided Chesham has an 'MFM' machine, (or any ticket machine with a touch-screen), which I think it does have, then a 1-9W is available on those machines. A 1-9W is even available at Epping!

A suggestion for the future is to perhaps excess the ticket? IIRC I was taught to refund the 1-9 and sell at 1-W in the same transaction, meaning you are only charged the difference.

Okay, well next time I go to the station I'll look. The only ones I saw today under Child travelcards were 1-9 and 2-9

 

[westcoaster]

Had the whole LM & Southern on my trains about 4 times in the last 2 weeks.
When they're told that a LM train "may turn up" in the next 30 mins at Euston they get on the DC. Especially that LM love missing out Harrow & Bushey when things go tits up.

As there are overhead probs at Harrow, Southern don't go any further north than Shepherds Bush so after being full at Euston get another full load at Willesden J who can't think of getting on...

Your idea works ok when things are normal westcoaster, but things don't normally run as normal....

fairpoint but on the law off averages maybe once a fortnight it goes belly up on the wcml so people got to use the local, but the local has it problems to, there was always service suspension on the dc especially the backerloo line. many a time we were stopped at queens park on the slows to take passengers to harrow/euston.

 

[Daniel]

Okay, well next time I go to the station I'll look. The only ones I saw today under Child travelcards were 1-9 and 2-9

I was under the impression that child travelcards could not be purchased from ticket machines outside of peak hours (on LU), as you are required to provide ID, the only ID accepted is a child oyster card, in which case it is cheaper to use pay-as-you-go?

 

[t0ffeeman]

fairpoint but on the law off averages maybe once a fortnight it goes belly up on the wcml so people got to use the local, but the local has it problems to, there was always service suspension on the dc especially the backerloo line. many a time we were stopped at queens park on the slows to take passengers to harrow/euston.

In the last fortnight its been 4 times on the WCML. Once more if you count the Bakerloo so LOROL is full by Stonebridge. Forget Take That at Wembley et al...

 

[Daniel]

Re the problems recently with the DC lines, I do know recently that one of the problems was a sub-station on fire... so some serious problems going around there!

 

[t0ffeeman]

Wasn't working that day. Just my luck

 

[bengley]

I was under the impression that child travelcards could not be purchased from ticket machines outside of peak hours (on LU), as you are required to provide ID, the only ID accepted is a child oyster card, in which case it is cheaper to use pay-as-you-go?

I've never been asked for ID. Even at Liverpool Street late in the evening.

 

[Daniel]

Maybe you look obviously a child's age. My point is the ticket seller has to be happy that you are of the correct age, (I will correct myself here from previously - Child Oyster is not the only form of ID at the ticket office window, birth certificate, or any form of ID showing age which the ticket seller is happy with can be used to buy a child paper ticket).

What I mean was, that the ticket seller has to be happy that you are of the appropriate age.
The only way for a machine to do this is to see proof - a Child Oystercard. (The drawback here being is cant check the photo)!

 

[yorkie]

I've never been asked for ID. Even at Liverpool Street late in the evening.

But is that at the LU station or NR?

LU are far more strict. If you look 14/15 then they are supposed to ask for ID as 14/15 year olds are meant to have Photocards. The solution is to go to the NR ticket office where no such restriction is enforced.

Some ticket office staff are stricter than others!

 

[Death]

Personally, the one company I'd like to see not calling at Watford stations is Virgin.

Thanks to the obligatory pick-up stops at Watford Jct, all Pendos wind up adding at least 10 minutes to their overall journey times (The station stop is only about 90 secs, but ye have to factor in decelleration and accelleration time as well) and - To cap it all - A Northbounde call at Watford means that the train has to teeter precariously close to the edge of that embankment on the southern approach curve, thanks to the acute superelevation of the track there! hock:

Now one of my earliest memories of using the WCML happens to be taking an HST around that same curve heading for Holyhead, and we passed through Watford at a good 70mph or so. Now I'm sure that if BR had intended for fast trains to call at Watford en-route to the North, then they wouldn't have canted the down main road anywhere near as steeply as that.
Indeed...If Virgin were to make full use of that canted path at maximum permissible line speeds with full tilt on, then VHF journeys to Manchester would be cut down to about 1:55 at the worst, and still with calls at Stoke and Macclesfield! 8)

[Mind ye, the above is my own personal opinion alone...And I'm sure that if Virgin could omit Watford without losing too many passengers or profit, then they'd have done so by now. ]

 

[bengley]

But is that at the LU station or NR?

LU are far more strict. If you look 14/15 then they are supposed to ask for id as 14/15 year olds are meant to have photocards. The solution is to go to the nr ticket office where no such restriction is enforced.

Some ticket office staff are stricter than others!

It was the LU ticket office

 

[clagmonster]

The only travelcards valid at Watford Jn are zones 1-9 + Watford Junction, priced at £13.50 for the adult off-peak ticket and of course out boundary travelcards from the WCML. This can be purchased from LUL booking offices. Whether it can be bought from the manchines, I don't have a clue, but I would trust what Daniel says on this matter. From BR booking offices, what you would get is questionable, but that discussion has been done on a previous topic.

 

[yorkie]

Surely the member of staff on the barrier should have explained this politely to the customer, and offered the appropriate excess?

It's a little like the time a Northern guard chose not to excess me on a "Route Direct" ticket (which is dubious anyway as there is no "direct" route for that journey on franchised TOCs without doubling back, but that's another story...) and instead said "don't do it again", WTF?! of course I can do it again, and he should charge about £3 excess. If he wanted to be kind by not charging, why be rude? Equally if someone insists on charging an excess they should be polite and say clearly what the excess is rather than be rude to the customer!

 

[Daniel]

Surely the member of staff on the barrier should have explained this politely to the customer

Agreed. I always try to be polite, even when the customer isn't really listening any more!

and offered the appropriate excess?

Unfortunatley, Watford Junction only has a National Rail ticket office, as London Underground don't serve there. This means that they cannot excess London Underground tickets. I'm sure you know the difference in the pink and orange tickets, that's why.
Even London Underground ticket offices that sell NR tickets and Railcards, (eg Farringdon), cannot refund or excess the orange tickets, and the same with the pink and NR offices.
The difference is that I am pretty sure an NR office can sell a boundary zone extension from an LU travelcard, as it involves not altering the first ticket.