Quarantine

[yorkie]

Coronavirus: Portugal added to UK's safe travel list as Croatia is removed

Portugal is added to UK's safe travel list but Croatia, Austria and Trinidad and Tobago are removed.

www.bbc.co.uk

Meanwhile, the Scottish government has added Switzerland to its list of countries requiring quarantine.

Can anyone clarify what this means?

I am not resident in Scotland, so does this apply to me at all?

If it does apply to me, does this mean I cannot visit Scotland for 14 days?

How would this be enforced?

 

[221129]

Coronavirus: Portugal added to UK's safe travel list as Croatia is removed

Portugal is added to UK's safe travel list but Croatia, Austria and Trinidad and Tobago are removed.

www.bbc.co.uk

Can anyone clarify what this means?

I am not resident in Scotland, so does this apply to me at all?

If it does apply to me, does this mean I cannot visit Scotland for 14 days?

How would this be enforced?

Indeed! I have a trip booked to Switzerland. Now being resident in Scotland but arriving in England if the rules stay as they are now then as long as I stay quiet about it no one would know as you could put an English address on it and no one would check. (Not that I would but it's perfectly possible to do so)

 

[Yew]

I feel like this week's update highlights the farce that this whole system is, countries being added and removed at random, with minimal notice is not a way to run things. it's simply an arbitrary way for Boris to show who's boss. Hopefully the emergency powers are not renewed.

 

[Envy123]

Why doesn't the UK do how Russia does the quarantine measures? You can either quarantine for 14 days as normal or provide a negative PCR test within the last 3 days (have to mention the lab which has done it and all) to have no quarantine? Does the UK government not trust the PCR test or something?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why doesn't the UK do how Russia does the quarantine measures? You can either quarantine for 14 days as normal or provide a negative PCR test within the last 3 days (have to mention the lab which has done it and all) to have no quarantine? Does the UK government not trust the PCR test or something?

No, because the PCR test isn't reliable when there are no symptoms or early in the incubation period. One thing they are considering is reducing quarantine to 5 days if you can evidence a negative test at the end of those 5 days.

 

[Meerkat]

I feel like this week's update highlights the farce that this whole system is, countries being added and removed at random, with minimal notice is not a way to run things. it's simply an arbitrary way for Boris to show who's boss. Hopefully the emergency powers are not renewed.

The countries aren’t being added and removed at random. It’s based on the data then signed off by managers. The alternative was quarantine for everywhere

 

[Envy123]

No, because the PCR test isn't reliable when there are no symptoms or early in the incubation period. One thing they are considering is reducing quarantine to 5 days if you can evidence a negative test at the end of those 5 days.

Right, thank you. The proposed option is still not so good, but at least it's better than what we have now.

If we can get a reliable test to detect the virus, I hope that a similar system to Russia's one would be adopted.

 

[Yew]

The countries aren’t being added and removed at random. It’s based on the data then signed off by managers. The alternative was quarantine for everywhere

Apologies, at short notice, with no prior indication, would probably be a better phrase.

 

[duncanp]

I assume that with our impeccable organisation skills that we have in the UK, planes arriving from countries on the Red list are directed to a different part of the airport to those arriving from countries on the Green list.

This is to ensure that in the queue for passport control and baggage reclaim, you don't have people from plague ridden Red List countries queuing and mingling with people arriving from "safe" Green List countries.

Yeah, right, there's more chance of me winning the lottery tonight than this happening.

 

[jtuk]

I'm going to see if any bookmaker will do a bet on request that Czechia will be placed on the verboten list next week, heck, if I'm going to be locked up for a fortnight I may as well get paid for it

 

[duncanp]

I'm going to see if any bookmaker will do a bet on request that Czechia will be placed on the verboten list next week, heck, if I'm going to be locked up for a fortnight I may as well get paid for it

Or, just to make it fun, have a bet on Portugal going back on the naughty list in a few weeks time, once thousands of people have booked holidays to the Algarve and have made it over there.

But as long as we are all "safe", that is all that matters.

Logic, common sense... who cares about them?

 

[trainophile]

If Bournemouth didn't result in a spike, why would the random resorts "abroad" that seem to be hopping on and off the dangerous list for no discernible reason? Especially as apparently the virus hates hot weather.

 

[Meerkat]

If Bournemouth didn't result in a spike, why would the random resorts "abroad" that seem to be hopping on and off the dangerous list for no discernible reason? Especially as apparently the virus hates hot weather.

Bournemouth was a daytime, outdoors, beach thing - pretty different from hotels, restaurants, and evenings out on holiday, plus travel.
The virus hates hot weather? What about California, Texas and Florida? Brazil gets pretty warm too doesn’t it?

 

[trainophile]

Bournemouth was a daytime, outdoors, beach thing - pretty different from hotels, restaurants, and evenings out on holiday, plus travel.
The virus hates hot weather? What about California, Texas and Florida? Brazil gets pretty warm too doesn’t it?

Good points. They may have revised the initial concern that the winter would produce a second wave as the virus thrives better in cold weather.

 

[Butts]

I'm supposed to be going in a few weeks time.

Unfortunately Albania is still on and never been off the "naughty list" from the FCO

Can anyone offer any insight into why, as there don't seem to have been that many deaths over there.

I don't want to end up cancelling a fourth Holiday this year !!

 

[takno]

I'm supposed to be going in a few weeks time.

Unfortunately Albania is still on and never been off the "naughty list" from the FCO

Can anyone offer any insight into why, as there don't seem to have been that many deaths over there.

I don't want to end up cancelling a fourth Holiday this year !!

Albania still has a number of transparency issues, and isn't a member of the EU, which makes it easier for the UK to distrust any figures coming out of the country. It's also not well-equipped to cope with an outbreak, so it's unlikely to be added to the safe list.

At the end of the day, it's not a massively popular destination for travel from the UK, and has minimal value in terms of inbound tourism, so it's easy to ignore without any fallout. Stranger things have happened, but I think it's highly unlikely that Albania will be free and easy to travel to in the next couple of months

 

[yorkie]

It's a good job I didn't cross this river...

(photo provided by @Mag_seven)

I did, however, step on the tree that had fallen from France onto the path in Switzerland.

A forum member who was with us did cross this river into France briefly, but that's OK as he isn't going to the UK in the next 14 days.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53854948

Can anyone clarify what this means?

I am not resident in Scotland, so does this apply to me at all?

If it does apply to me, does this mean I cannot visit Scotland for 14 days?

How would this be enforced?

I still don't know if I'm allowed to visit Scotland or not in the next couple of weeks; does anyone know?

I think this highlights how bonkers this all is.

 

[Busaholic]

It's a good job I didn't cross this river...
View attachment 82638
(photo provided by @Mag_seven)

I did, however, step on the tree that had fallen from France onto the path in Switzerland.

A forum member who was with us did cross this river into France briefly, but that's OK as he isn't going to the UK in the next 14 days.


I still don't know if I'm allowed to visit Scotland or not in the next couple of weeks; does anyone know?

I think this highlights how bonkers this all is.

I'm sure if you only visited to test your eyesight you'd be in the clear. Otherwise, adopt an impenetrable accent and act dangerous and mad - well, it always works for Glaswegians in London.

 

[LAX54]

If Bournemouth didn't result in a spike, why would the random resorts "abroad" that seem to be hopping on and off the dangerous list for no discernible reason? Especially as apparently the virus hates hot weather.

Bournemouth, Clacton, Blackpool, Yarmouth, Brighton, and many others, then there were the protests in London and elsewhere, Clacton pier back in July was 'heaving' packed solid, as no dount were the piers in other places, also with Cafes / Pubs etc full with everyone enjoying themselves, but yet to see any 'spike' ! I see now Dental Surgeons are already reporting an increase in dental / mouth issues as a direct result of mask wearing, increased infections caused by 'dry mouth'
Once the Gov, admit they over reacted and we get back to nomality, maybe the UK can recover, or at least try and pull out out of the ever speeding spiral we are in !

 

[island]

I still don't know if I'm allowed to visit Scotland or not in the next couple of weeks; does anyone know?

As Switzerland is not an exempt country as respects Scotland, if you travel to Scotland within 14 days of having left Switzerland and were minded to remain in Scotland, you would be required under the Health Protection (Coronavirus) (International Travel) (Scotland) Regulations 2020 section 6 to proceed to a premises where you will self-isolate until the End of the day 14 days after you departed Switzerland.

Thankfully there is not a “Scottish trap”. If you happened to somehow be bumbling along the border and inadvertently veered into Scotland, or even boarded a wrong train at Newcastle and ended up in Edinburgh by mistake – regulation 9 (6) (a) allows you to leave Scotland again as long as you do so directly. And you’re also allowed to go bashing in Scotland as long as you have a ticket back to England or somewhere else outwith Scotland – regulation 7 (b) permits this.

I think this highlights how bonkers this all is.

Quite.

 

[Meerkat]

‘Perfect is the enemy of the good’
A general trend here seems to be ‘we shouldn’t bother doing anything unless it is 100% effective, and 100% enforced’
Try ‘every little helps’ instead!

 

[takno]

‘Perfect is the enemy of the good’
A general trend here seems to be ‘we shouldn’t bother doing anything unless it is 100% effective, and 100% enforced’
Try ‘every little helps’ instead!

It's got nothing to do with perfect, it's about avoiding an utterly mindless assumption that everything helps, and that if it might "help" even just a little bit with the Coronatargets, then any level of inconvenience and disruption to people's lives is justified to make it happen. Try actually thinking instead of repeating supermarket adverts.

 

[Yew]

Indeed, the idea that the benefits should be clear, measurable, and outweigh the downsides doesn't seem to me to be a particularly controversial approach to take to public policy.

 

[Meerkat]

It's got nothing to do with perfect, it's about avoiding an utterly mindless assumption that everything helps, and that if it might "help" even just a little bit with the Coronatargets, then any level of inconvenience and disruption to people's lives is justified to make it happen. Try actually thinking instead of repeating supermarket adverts.

Everything that encourages or enables people to distance helps. Do you deny that distancing slows virus spread significantly?
Let’s go back to basics - what is your plan? Everything back to normal and hope that the NHS doesn’t get overwhelmed by a virus we still don’t really understand?

 

[takno]

Everything that encourages or enables people to distance helps. Do you deny that distancing slows virus spread significantly?
Let’s go back to basics - what is your plan? Everything back to normal and hope that the NHS doesn’t get overwhelmed by a virus we still don’t really understand?

I don't have a plan - I'm not in government so don't need one. My suggestion is to stop worrying about getting to zero cases, since that's very clearly not an option, start opening things up a lot more, and keep some of the options that do work in reserve for if demand on the NHS does start to rise again.

Whatever policy you want to follow though, you need to keep people onside or none of the distancing and reduction of social contacts and things that might actually make a difference to R will ever actually happen. Quarantine is one of many examples of faffing-around-the-edges just-in-casery that is caused by foolish thinking like "every little helps". It doesn't actually do anything much at all to stop spread - it just makes the government would look a lot clueless, and pointlessly inconveniences people. Angry put-upon people will just give up even trying to follow any of the rules.

 

[Meerkat]

You don’t think quarantine has any useful effect?

 

[talldave]

You don’t think quarantine has any useful effect?

How about testing everyone who's quarantining? That would show how pointless it is, or isn't.

 

[Meerkat]

How about testing everyone who's quarantining? That would show how pointless it is, or isn't.

That’s a lot of tests - is there the capacity for that?

 

[talldave]

That’s a lot of tests - is there the capacity for that?

How many people go into quarantine per day?

 

[takno]

You don’t think quarantine has any useful effect?

I think there are probably some countries it would be worth quarantining. What isn't worth it is doing so on the basis of a fairly minimal difference between their figures and ours, and worst of all constantly chopping and changing who is on the list while loads of people are actually there on holiday. 5 days notice on arrivals from somewhere with a developing regional situation isn't going to make any real difference in terms of the spread of the virus. Making people play a cruel game of cat and mouse where the forfeit is that they end up returning from a wrecked holiday to financial ruin, that's not the sort of behaviour that makes people inclined to play ball when they are making guest lists for a party