6A11 (Robeston Sidings - Theale Murco) on fire near Llanelli (27/08)

[BRX]

Looking at this, you can see a burnt out stretch of woodland, parallel to the railway line (but separated from it by an unburnt strip), towards what I understand is what was the front of the train... is there a string of wagons in there? If so, that suggests that a portion of the train came right off the tracks (but not including the front part and loco?)... or is it just that that's where the fire spread?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

View attachment 82821

Looking at this, you can see a burnt out stretch of woodland, parallel to the railway line (but separated from it by an unburnt strip), towards what I understand is what was the front of the train... is there a string of wagons in there? If so, that suggests that a portion of the train came right off the tracks (but not including the front part and loco?)... or is it just that that's where the fire spread?

11 tanks involved in the actual fire and derailment, which are all visible in the image. The remaining tanks are separated and can be seen in the top left of the image. The burnt woodland shows the direction of drainage along which ignited fuel will have travelled causing the fire to spread.

Be interesting to see who gets the most recommendations from the RAIB report - the rolling stock maintainer, the train operator or Network Rail...

 

[Western 52]

I see these trains passing through Ferryside about a mile away from me on the opposite side of the Towy estuary.
From this distance, most of the tanks look very scruffy. I'm no expert, perhaps Western 52 could either confirm or deny this being as he would appear to have a better view than me?
What sort of maintenance do they have?
It must be a hell of a job.

I agree the tanks mostly look scruffy and there are various types and colours. I see them close up from my house and they shake the town when they thunder past. I'm no expert but I imagine that maintenance standards must be very high given the potential dangers involved.

 

[High Dyke]

Looking at that view, and from the news reports I've seen, I would suggest the red wagon is close to the front of the train. There doesn't seem to be any evidence of wagons hidden in the trees towards the right of the view just where the fire has also inflicted damage.

 

[Crossover]

Looking at that view, and from the news reports I've seen, I would suggest the red wagon is close to the front of the train. There doesn't seem to be any evidence of wagons hidden in the trees towards the right of the view just where the fire has also inflicted damage.

Agreed. The 'string' of wagons towards the top left of the photo I would take to be the rake that weren't involved in the derailment or fire and were drawn away to a safer distance by the 66

 

[BRX]

11 tanks involved in the actual fire and derailment, which are all visible in the image. The remaining tanks are separated and can be seen in the top left of the image. The burnt woodland shows the direction of drainage along which ignited fuel will have travelled causing the fire to spread.

Ah I see, that explains it.

And then there were several further tanks plus loco in front of the red one visible? I'm trying to understand at what point the front section was uncoupled by the driver, prior to moving on out of the way.

 

[6Gman]

Uncoupling the loco and driving away is also probably the safest and fastest way to get away from the fire.

Especially in the dark !

 

[Atishyou]

If the driver has uncoupled the loco and a number of wagons in such an incident (as mentioned in the rule book, situation allowing), they've done exceptionally well to stop a major incident become a disaster.

Well done to them and imo, they've got some balls of steel!

 

[Anonymous10]

That should be fine, depending on how wide the signalling disruption is.

Map cropped from the Adlestrop one (the derailment was at/near Llangennech):
View attachment 82813

Just as well it wasn't before the District line diverged, or the whole of the country would have been cut off from West Wales

With all the tourists it would be interesting if West Wales was cut off

 

[edwin_m]

My take on the sequence of events: derailment initiated at the facing points, possibly trailing bogie of leading tank (the red one)? Coupling broke between first and second, rest of train followed the divegting route with the second wagon on the ballast. The momentum of the rest of the train caused compressive forces as the second wagon decelerated rapidly, jack-knifing the third and fourth to the left and the seventh and eighth to the right. There are of course several causes or combinations of causes that could result in derailment on a facing point. One possible cause for fuel spillage would be a buffer of a wagon puncturing the tank of the next one.

 

[High Dyke]

Agreed. The 'string' of wagons towards the top left of the photo I would take to be the rake that weren't involved in the derailment or fire and were drawn away to a safer distance by the 66

I didn't mention the rake of wagons to the left, but that would also be my understanding of it.

 

[Meole]

There will be pressure to cease this bulk traffic as too dangerous for rail, single road tankers being far less hazardous.

 

[Bikeman78]

https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1298915658034380806?s=09

Aerial video ITV

I wonder why the adjacent pools of water are such a bright colour? I've looked on Google satellite and they are the same colour. Must have been a big exclusion zone. The closest houses are 500m away.

 

[Anonymous10]

There will be pressure to cease this bulk traffic as too dangerous for rail, single road tankers being far less hazardous.

But far more expensive and less environmentally friendly

 

[Meerkat]

There will be pressure to cease this bulk traffic as too dangerous for rail, single road tankers being far less hazardous.

Not sure about that - when was the last train crash that involved an excursion into a non railway building?
I guess there is a tiny risk of hitting a crowded platform, but road tankers can easily plough into buses, pubs , and other crowded buildings.

 

[Harbon 1]

There will be pressure to cease this bulk traffic as too dangerous for rail, single road tankers being far less hazardous.

Considering (taking rough calculations based on the Kingsbury tank runs) each train conveys ~2000 tonnes of fuel, and a lorry can carry ~25 tonnes, that’s 80 lorry journeys per train... There are 4 trains a day. When was the last tank train derailment, and when was the last time a tanker lorry was involved in an accident.

 

[GB]

There will be pressure to cease this bulk traffic as too dangerous for rail, single road tankers being far less hazardous.

Wrong on both counts

 

[the sniper]

There will be pressure to cease this bulk traffic as too dangerous for rail, single road tankers being far less hazardous.

There may be, but only because rationality has fallen out of fashion.

 

[BRX]

Yes, there are road tanker accidents that happen and leave people dead but don't make the headlines in the same way.

Italy tanker explosion kills six

Footage shows the ruins of a fuel tanker ablaze in the aftermath of a motorway explosion.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Killingworth]

I'd point out that during WW2 the Government Pipeline and Storage System was set up to connect refineries with airfields to transport aviation fuel and it still operates today.

The options for oil product transport include rail, road, sea and pipeline. Once built pipelines require very little maintenance, are safe, generally unobtrusive*, and use little energy.

I'm digressing from the current accident, but it might remind of the potential dangers of trundling inflammable liquids by rail or road. We've managed to accommodate a vast network of pipes to move natural gas. Interesting that we haven't done the same for other petroleum products. Probably too late now as we phrase out hydrocarbon fuels.

*Few will realise that as they drive, cycle or walk up the narrow valley that holds the Winnats Pass in the Peak District that below the ground lies an oil pipeline.

 

[CAIB]

There will be pressure to cease this bulk traffic as too dangerous for rail, single road tankers being far less hazardous.

No.

Knee jerk reaction.

 

[Tom Quinne]

I agree the tanks mostly look scruffy and there are various types and colours. I see them close up from my house and they shake the town when they thunder past. I'm no expert but I imagine that maintenance standards must be very high given the potential dangers involved.

There was an incident involving the B13 train (Robeston to Westerleigh) a few years ago which gave significant guidance to DB Cargo and their maintenance contractor after the brake rigging literally fall apart a little further west of this incident.

There is RAIB report online which gives the full lowdown, but I’m 100% confident the standard of maintenance of these wagons, despite their outward appearance is fully inline with the required standards.

There will be pressure to cease this bulk traffic as too dangerous for rail, single road tankers being far less hazardous.

Why don’t we go full hog and cease all Railfreight? There is a significant amount of dangerous goods carried in freightliner containers as well, not to mention spent nuclear waste.

Rail is by a massive margin the safest way to carry this type of traffic, picture a single HGV tanker being involved in a accident on the M4 forget zero injuries.

 

[Envoy]

With all the tourists it would be interesting if West Wales was cut off

West Wales is not cut off. Fortunately the accident happened on the Swansea District Line at the junction where the Heart of Wales Line comes off it to head through the middle of Wales to Shrewsbury - so only those trains would be affected. (This line was already closed by a landslip further north although trains were using it from the south as far as Llandrindod).

The Swansea District Line rejoins the main line at Briton Ferry - just west of Port Talbot. It has been suggested that this line should have a new station by the M4 north of Swansea at Morriston and be used for fast services to/from west Wales.

 

[Dai Corner]

I wonder why the adjacent pools of water are such a bright colour? I've looked on Google satellite and they are the same colour. Must have been a big exclusion zone. The closest houses are 500m away.

Apparently the pools are to do with draining contaminated water from disused mines and purifying it before releasing it into the river. The colour is due to iron oxide. Nothing to do with this incident.

 

[ainsworth74]

Update from the RAIB:

Derailment and fire involving a tanker train at Llangennech
Investigation into the derailment and fire involving a tanker train at Llangennech, Carmarthenshire, 26 August 2020.



At about 23:15 hrs on 26 August 2020, train 6A11, the 21:52 hrs freight service from Robeston to Theale, conveying 25 tank wagons, each containing up to 75.5 tonnes of diesel or gas oil, derailed on the ‘Up District’ line near Llangennech, in Carmarthenshire. The derailment and the subsequent damage to the wagons resulted in a significant spillage of fuel and a major fire. The driver, who was unhurt, reported the accident to the signaller. Subsequent examination of the site revealed that a total of 10 wagons (positioned 3rd to 12th in the train) had derailed.

The fire was tackled by the fire service, who ordered the evacuation of local residents due to concerns for their safety. Local people have reported seeing a plume of flames and smoke, and the strong smell of fuel. Our investigation will seek to identify the causes of the derailment, and how these led to the fire. It will also consider any underlying management factors.

Our investigation is independent of any investigation by the railway industry, police or by the industry’s regulator, the Office of Rail and Road.

We will publish our findings, including any recommendations to improve safety, at the conclusion of our investigation. This report will be available on our website.

[Withdrawn] Derailment and fire involving a tanker train at Llangennech

Investigation into the derailment and fire involving a tanker train at Llangennech, Carmarthenshire, 26 August 2020.

www.gov.uk

 

[swanhill41]

No indication when line will be cleared|?

 

[DarloRich]

No indication when line will be cleared|?

Not yet.

The ORR and RAIB have to release the site before recovery and repair activities can even start.

Then a plan needs to be formulated after
a site inspection and equipment and people gathered. Then the vehicles down the bank need recovering by the same people who, i suspect are going to be busy somewhat further north.

 

[Anonymous10]

West Wales is not cut off. Fortunately the accident happened on the Swansea District Line at the junction where the Heart of Wales Line comes off it to head through the middle of Wales to Shrewsbury - so only those trains would be affected. (This line was already closed by a landslip further north although trains were using it from the south as far as Llandrindod. Assuming the landslip is cleared before the damage caused by this accident, I wonder if they will resume services on the HoW by going from Swansea to Neath and then up to Pontdarrdulais via the chord just east of the accident site)?

The Swansea District Line rejoins the main line at Briton Ferry - just east of Port Talbot. It has been suggested that this line should have a new station by the M4 north of Swansea at Morriston and be used for fast services to/from west Wales.

I did say if

 

[JN114]

Not yet.

The ORR and RAIB have to release the site before recovery and repair activities can even start.

Then a plan needs to be formulated after
a site inspection and equipment and people gathered. Then the vehicles down the bank need recovering by the same people who, i suspect are going to be busy somewhat further north.

I’m not even sure Wales Fire have released site to BTP/ORR/RAIB yet

 

[Steve Harris]

I think this is a case of perception being the driver of peoples' worries, which is presumably why the flasks are so strong and why such play was made in the 80s of crashing a class 45 and three coaches into one at 100mph to demonstrate their suitability to a potentially-sceptical public.

Apart from in fact it was a Class 46. (46009 to be precise.)