As long as train drivers are getting up at 01.00 to go to work they are working class in my book. I’ll never get my head around members of ASLEF voting for the tories.
Don't doctors also get up at that sort of time depending on shift?
As long as train drivers are getting up at 01.00 to go to work they are working class in my book. I’ll never get my head around members of ASLEF voting for the tories.
Don't doctors also get up at that sort of time depending on shift?
No, I'm thinking about the number of trains (passenger and freight) that ran in 1950 compared to the number in 1980. I don't have the figures but surely there would have been more drivers needed in the former year than the latter. I'm also thinking about the fight to keep the secondman in the 80s and 90s.The role of the train driver was not then and still isn't in decline. Perhaps you are confusing the footplate line of promotion with the abolition of steam and all the labour redundant from MPDs. A train goes nowhere without a competent person at the controls and Covid is making that really difficult at some TOCs.
Drivers who had spent the previous twelve months training and passing out, but unable to route learn due to the one in a cab rule. Unable to route learn any other way they have been sat at home since March on a training salary.
Absolutely spot on!!
On the subject of voting Tory I can bet you that there are more Tory voters working on the railway and on these forums than there ever has been. They just remain quite and don’t shout it from the rooftops like Labour supporters do!!
Defining class as a matter of political views causes a lot of problems, though it is perhaps unsurprising that a communist would want to hide the members of the working class with the "wrong" opinions.The great E.P Thompson in his ground breaking work of social and cultural history of 1963, The Making of the English Working Class, defined class thus:
'Class happens when some men, as a result of common experiences (inherited or shared), feel and articulate the identity of their interests as between themselves, and as against other men whose interests are different from (and usually opposed to) theirs.'
This would suggest its not simply how much you earn that defines you as Working Class.
Semi Detached houses, good cars etc., may have been associated primarily in the past with the middle class. However you could have these assets and still remain Working Class.
Absolutely spot on!!
Can you imagine saying to someone working in the care home industry who works for minimum wage, 50hr weeks, 5/6 days a week that your working class. Oh! and BTW me and the wife/husband earn over £60k each, driver a brand new Range Rover and going back to my 4 bedroom detached house!! They would just laugh in your face.
On the subject of voting Tory I can bet you that there are more Tory voters working on the railway and on these forums than there ever has been. They just remain quite and don’t shout it from the rooftops like Labour supporters do!!
You only have to look at the few recent comments on here what happens when you might even dare to vote Tory!
I take it then that some TOCs/LDCs have not agreed to 'bubble' training?Drivers who had spent the previous twelve months training and passing out, but unable to route learn due to the one in a cab rule. Unable to route learn any other way they have been sat at home since March on a training salary.
I’ll never get my head around members of ASLEF voting for the tories.
No, most occupations have fixed shift start times; typically doctors and others would work a shift pattern that involves nights or a reduced level of staffing overnight so would start at something around 6-7am.Don't doctors also get up at that sort of time depending on shift?
Not quite sure what time a shift involving a 1am wake up would start; personally I’m of the belief that any shifts starting before 4am should really be a night shift as it isn’t really right for people to be starting work at such a time. I know of at least one company that has in their agreements that duties for drivers cannot start or finish between certain times (service disruption excepted).
But living that far away is (presumably) a choice that driver had made, so they have to suffer the consequences accordingly.Freight drivers can book on at one or two in the morning and be expected to do a full twelve hour running turn ending mid afternoon! Drivers (and guards) who live seventy or eighty miles away from their depots might also find themselves getting up very early to travel in for a 0400 book on, for example.
But living that far away is (presumably) a choice that driver had made, so they have to suffer the consequences accordingly.
Although some will no doubt enjoy early starts!
But living that far away is (presumably) a choice that driver had made, so they have to suffer the consequences accordingly.
Although some will no doubt enjoy early starts!
On the subject of voting Tory I can bet you that there are more Tory voters working on the railway and on these forums than there ever has been. They just remain quite and don’t shout it from the rooftops like Labour supporters do!!
You only have to look at the few recent comments on here what happens when you might even dare to vote Tory!
So let’s not pull down anyone for their political believes, like I said before we are one big railway family and need to stick together especially through these hard time!!
- Turkeys voting for Christmas
- Quite another being out and proud tory
This is why I think railway workers and the RMT in particular need to be very aware of what public opinion might be when they call for strikes / work to rule as I'm not sure there will be that much sympathy considering how many years of above inflation wage rises many in the industry have been able to receive.
I appreciate you've already taken my comments out of context, but maybe the context wasn't obvious enough. Do you not think there's a bizarre conflict of interest involved in Guards who go from openly advertising how proud they were to support the Tories, reposting their propaganda on Facebook, one even being a member of the Conservative Party, to then being all for industrial action when they came for the Guards?
I haven't actually mentioned Drivers. Many have come in during the good times when Drivers have only been considered 'highly paid respected professionals', that's all they know. Many have come from other Professions. It's easy to see why many will vote that way for pragmatic reasons, at least. We'll see how loyal they are to the Party when they come for the Railway Pension Scheme...
And for the record, I don't advocate any political party.
Presumably, as politically active individuals, they’re well aware of said “conflict of interests” and have reconciled it in their own minds. And, with all due respect, what business is it of yours which political parties your colleagues might support? For someone who professes to have no interest in any political party, you show an unusual interest in the politics of your colleagues!
Why were they so keen to tell us if it's none of our business? How do you propose I forget stuff that they've said and put out there publicly? It's funny, if anything.
What on Earth are talking about? Can you expand?
Do you not think there's a bizarre conflict of interest involved in Guards who go from openly advertising how proud they were to support the Tories, reposting their propaganda on Facebook, one even being a member of the Conservative Party, to then being all for industrial action when they came for the Guards?
To be fair, it’s also not as if either union has threatened strike action over pay for some years (contrast with nurses, doctors and airline pilots) so the “greedy overpaid railstaff” trope is inaccurate.
A letter issued by the union stated: “Negotiations have taken place with the company to discuss the matter of your pay rise.
"Unfortunately the latest talks have proved to be fruitless and your union has been advised that the extension of emergency measures agreement until January 2021 implies that you will not receive a pay rise in 2020.
"Your national executive committee has considered the matter further and it has declared that a dispute situation now exists between our organisations.
"Necessary preparations for a ballot for industrial action are being made.”
The RMT urged members to vote in favour of both strike action and action short of a strike.
There’s still an unpleasant undercurrent in some railway messrooms, along the lines that only certain political opinions are acceptable. That attitude belongs in the 1970s, along with the disgustingly racist and homophobic views I’ve heard expressed, usually by the self proclaimed messroom Union bores, who profess to hate us Tories.
As long as train drivers are getting up at 01.00 to go to work they are working class in my book. I’ll never get my head around members of ASLEF voting for the tories.
The rail unions are there to serve the best interests of their members. Public opinion doesn’t come into it. It’s a shame the British public seem to embrace a “race to the bottom”.
To be fair, it’s also not as if either union has threatened strike action over pay for some years (contrast with nurses, doctors and airline pilots) so the “greedy overpaid railstaff” trope is inaccurate.
Presumably, as politically active individuals, they’re well aware of said “conflict of interests” and have reconciled it in their own minds. And, with all due respect, what business is it of yours which political parties your colleagues might support? For someone who professes to have no interest in any political party, you show an unusual interest in the politics of your colleagues!
There’s still an unpleasant undercurrent in some railway messrooms, along the lines that only certain political opinions are acceptable. That attitude belongs in the 1970s, along with the disgustingly racist and homophobic views I’ve heard expressed, usually by the self proclaimed messroom Union bores, who profess to hate us Tories.
Of course being a Tory has nothing to do with those attitudes, but many of the union dinosaurs can barely read words of more than one syllable, let alone understand politics, so their political views boil down to the binary position of “Tory bad” “Labour good” without any understanding of what either party stands for.
People like that occupy binary positions. They cannot critically analyse their own political views, let alone interpret mine. Asking why they have any particular view at all is as futile (and about as interesting) as asking a moth why it flies towards a flame.
What I find most ironic, and something that exposes their stupidity, is the lunacy of both unions wanting to renationalise the railway which is a far better example of Turkeys voting for Christmas than your Tory guard colleagues!
The rail unions are there to serve the best interests of their members. Public opinion doesn’t come into it. It’s a shame the British public seem to embrace a “race to the bottom”.
To be fair, it’s also not as if either union has threatened strike action over pay for some years (contrast with nurses, doctors and airline pilots) so the “greedy overpaid railstaff” trope is inaccurate.
Well said.
The bit you've emboldened, have you ever been in a messroom or a branch meeting? Does that match your experiences?
It's an interesting observation. One that is his own.
ASLEF is about one thing and one thing only. Drivers and how much money they can get for them.
They should not be called a union, a better description would be conservative club.
Umm..
ScotRail staff to hold strike ballot over no pay rise
The Rail Maritime and Transport union announced a vote today after being told there would be no increase todaywww.edinburghnews.scotsman.com
Very recently I heard of a traincrew depot in the north of England where the local reps screen applications to join that depot, and screen out anyone without an English sounding name. I don’t quite believe it, not least that a union would be in any way involved in recruitment or transfers. But, it was told to me by someone of detailed working knowledge of that depot, and of impeachable character. So something must be going on.
Fair point re. the the Scotrail ballot. Although, I’ll maintain that kind of thing doesn’t happen anything like as often as the general public thinks it does.
Re. the latter point (and assuming you meant to say your source is of “unimpeachable” character ). I’d hope that equalities legislation and the involvement of HR in the recruitment process would prevent that kind of thing, but it’s not entirely beyond the realms of possibility.
Absolutely disgusting if true. Probably the same idiots who would not want any Women coming in either! These people need reporting (and I hope they were?) and made an example of.Umm..
ScotRail staff to hold strike ballot over no pay rise
The Rail Maritime and Transport union announced a vote today after being told there would be no increase todaywww.edinburghnews.scotsman.com
Very recently I heard of a traincrew depot in the north of England where the local reps screen applications to join that depot, and screen out anyone without an English sounding name. I don’t quite believe it, not least that a union would be in any way involved in recruitment or transfers. But, it was told to me by someone of detailed working knowledge of that depot, and of impeachable character. So something must be going on.