Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Why just Croydon? I thought it was the whole of London.
It is.
Why just Croydon? I thought it was the whole of London.
Why just Croydon? I thought it was the whole of London.
I think this is akin to trying to push back an incoming tide. We need to accept that people just aren't complying with these sorts of measures. Allow people to meet up in pubs and no matter how "Covid secure" they claim to be people are going to mix, especially where alcohol is involved. Close the pubs and people will simply meet in homes, and even if we decide to make it illegal with the risk of harsh fines there simply aren't the police resources to enforce it, plus it introduces snitching which leaves a long-term negative legacy which we could do without. Even during the last lockdown this mixing was clearly happening, which may well have contributed to it taking quite a time for infection rates to drop down.
Especially now this has been going on for so long, people are going to be people, and there's probably not a lot that can be done about that.
No as much as I dislike the current politicians this is over the top. Whatever they do people will die, sorry but that's how it is. Majority are I'll or have some kind of health condition. Some unfortunate healthy people will die but that happens with many illnesses. You can't blame the politicians for that, whatever they do some will die. May argue back in March they made mistakes but do did many countries.The problem is that they have blood on their hands as a result. Their cack-handedness is literally killing people.
Crikey, if you're going to do such a bad job, you might as well beef up the NHS and unleash the floodgates, as if we think immunity is short then that way it might die out itself! (I don't want this done, but it'd be better than a half-job).
The trouble is that there will be fair few people sticking with it. You might think they're mugs, and I might agree, but they are still having their lives messed up out of a misplaced sense of respect for the law.Today the Guardian wrote an article on the "sex ban" i.e. that unless a couple are in a support bubble its illegal to meet together indoors in a home in tiers 2 and 3. At no point did it mention the blindingly obvious... Very few people are going to abstain to avoid breaking the law, especially not for a 0.1% chance of getting a £200 fixed penalty fine that is the legal equivalent of a speeding ticket!
I am not sure if our political and media class are actually that out of touch or whether they are just pretending that most people are following the restrictions!
Today the Guardian wrote an article on the "sex ban" i.e. that unless a couple are in a support bubble its illegal to meet together indoors in a home in tiers 2 and 3. At no point did it mention the blindingly obvious... Very few people are going to abstain to avoid breaking the law, especially not for a 0.1% chance of getting a £200 fixed penalty fine that is the legal equivalent of a speeding ticket!
Then there is Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland doing there own thing. Why could all not virtually sit down and come up consistent restrictions even if it meant another Tier or even two ?
The trouble is that there will be fair few people sticking with it. You might think they're mugs, and I might agree, but they are still having their lives messed up out of a misplaced sense of respect for the law.
In any case, I don't think it's sensible to have piles of legislation on the books which most people casually disregard. We already have loads of drug laws that have less impact on actual behaviour than the health warnings on cigarette labels. Why make the same mess of sex?
I'm sure that's nice for those in established relationships.Today the Guardian wrote an article on the "sex ban" i.e. that unless a couple are in a support bubble its illegal to meet together indoors in a home in tiers 2 and 3. At no point did it mention the blindingly obvious... Very few people are going to abstain to avoid breaking the law, especially not for a 0.1% chance of getting a £200 fixed penalty fine that is the legal equivalent of a speeding ticket!
I am not sure if our political and media class are actually that out of touch or whether they are just pretending that most people are following the restrictions!
I’ve heard so many people say “we complied last time round but are not going to do so now”.
Mostly middle aged/older people who blame young 'Covidiots' for spreading the virus indiscriminately,Or worse, people saying they think restrictions should be tougher but who are not keeping to the current restrictions.
Why just Croydon? I thought it was the whole of London.
No as much as I dislike the current politicians this is over the top. Whatever they do people will die, sorry but that's how it is. Majority are I'll or have some kind of health condition. Some unfortunate healthy people will die but that happens with many illnesses. You can't blame the politicians for that, whatever they do some will die. May argue back in March they made mistakes but do did many countries.
A month or so ago one issue with local restrictions was the inconsistency. Now while Tier 1 & 2 are consistent Tier 3 is not. As more areas are added to Tier 3 the inconsistency will increase further. Then there is Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland doing there own thing. Why could all not virtually sit down and come up consistent restrictions even if it meant another Tier or even two ? To me it seems rather childish of our leaders.
.........
Mostly middle aged/older people who blame young 'Covidiots' for spreading the virus indiscriminately,
while blithely breaking the rules themselves on a daily basis because they are being 'careful'
It's a bit like drivers who constantly rant about the number of "idiot drivers" on the road while
being blissfully unaware that they are just as bad!
MARK
One lady comments that she will not see her granddaughter, even though they live on opposite sides of the same street, their homes are in different Tiers.The county boundary runs down the middle of Portland Road, meaning houses on one side have "tier one" restrictions, while the other side is "tier two".
It's caused some amusement among residents, but also much frustration due to the difficulty of living in a community with two sets of rules.
People on the Derbyshire side of the street, currently in tier one, can meet socially in groups of six indoors, while those on the other side are subject to more stringent restrictions - due to the fact Nottinghamshire became tier two this week.
Bev Plumb, landlady of the Jug and Glass Inn, which is in tier two, said she had already had customers contacting her to cancel bookings.
She said the fact people can meet in pubs just a short walk down the road is an issue, and questioned how she would be able to enforce the ban on households mixing.
"People are trying to do the right thing, trying not to break the law, but it does affect our business," she said.
"There shouldn't be a blanket approach for the whole of Nottinghamshire."
This story highlights just how ridiculous this has all become
Coronavirus: 'Tier one ends at my garden wall'
The street split down the middle by the government's new coronavirus rules.www.bbc.co.uk
One lady comments that she will not see her granddaughter, even though they live on opposite sides of the same street, their homes are in different Tiers.
There’s no way I would comply in that situation
This story highlights just how ridiculous this has all become
Coronavirus: 'Tier one ends at my garden wall'
The street split down the middle by the government's new coronavirus rules.www.bbc.co.uk
One lady comments that she will not see her granddaughter, even though they live on opposite sides of the same street, their homes are in different Tiers.
There’s no way I would comply in that situation
It will come down to :-
Anyone who wants to be cautious will match or exceed the stricter of the two tiers.
Anyone who does not care wont bother.
How the virus does depends on how many people fall into each side of the above.
In generally it is a bit like people rushing out for a last party/drink before a tier kicks in. For me the imminent arrival of a stricter tier means its time to be careful asap.
I don't think enough has been done to help people understand the reasons for the tiers, masks, 2m rule etc etc.
The more interesting side for the media is the unpleasant side effects of the tiers - economic. The mental well being side seems to be taking a back seat btw ?. What we are trying to prevent will only get news worthy again when/if Covid-19 buries the NHS again.
Or the third option - people will take sensible precautions whilst getting on with their lives, although I realise that there are those for whom anyone not hunkering down in their bunker is irresponsible.
Sensible approach without masks, these do not seem to be working. Numbers have not dropped since they were made mandatory.Whaaat, a balanced approach .
Actually, without looking too closely, what you are saying appears to be the Swedish approach. No severe lockdown or fancy tiers just enough people being cautiously sensible. I see enough people in shops not wearing masks to wonder. With a bit of care and inconvenience how close to normal life can we get ?. It could be a choice of wear a mask and try to make space or watch the hospitality sector collapse.
They cannot be proven to have made a difference, yet the government are, in effect, implying that the virus spreads more readily in places where the very measure designed to slow the spread (wearing face-coverings) is actually being adhered to !!!Sensible approach without masks, these do not seem to be working. Numbers have not dropped since they were made mandatory.
Agree but seems too many are of the thinking that masks are our saviours especially when politicians like Sturgeon seem to want to mandate them everywhere. People have been right royally led astray with the facts here, possibly as politicians weren't sure what they were talking about in the first place but, as usual, had to be seen to be doing something. Afraid I feel this is true of latest three tier system, where's the science/evidence?They cannot be proven to have made a difference, yet the government are, in effect, implying that the virus spreads more readily in places where the very measure designed to slow the spread (wearing face-coverings) is actually being adhered to !!!
We need a ‘Sparticus’ movement, where people just state ‘I’m exempt’.
It does seem to me that this three tier system is just the Government playing s real life video game. Put this area into Tier 2, then this into 3, when is this nonsense going to end. We've tried lockdown and restrictions, the virus doesn't go away. Original aim was to allow NHS to cope, that doesn't seem to be the aim now.
In all areas? I've not looked at numbers but can't believe everywhere it's above 1. Having said that in areas where there's low infections R is pretty meaningless so potentially could be above 1 currently. Afraid too much emphasis placed on R value, bit of a case of so what if amongst loads of students, really is hospital admissions we should be worrying about.Furthermore, given that R is above 1 in all areas of England, it is only a matter of time before Tier 1 places have numbers matching current Tier 2 or even Tier 3 places.
In all areas? I've not looked at numbers but can't believe everywhere it's above 1. Having said that in areas where there's low infections R is pretty meaningless so potentially could be above 1 currently. Afraid too much emphasis placed on R value, bit of a case of so what if amongst loads of students, really is hospital admissions we should be worrying about.
I’ve heard so many people say “we complied last time round but are not going to do so now”.
Whaaat, a balanced approach .
Actually, without looking too closely, what you are saying appears to be the Swedish approach. No severe lockdown or fancy tiers just enough people being cautiously sensible. I see enough people in shops not wearing masks to wonder. With a bit of care and inconvenience how close to normal life can we get ?. It could be a choice of wear a mask and try to make space or watch the hospitality sector collapse.
It will come down to :-
The more interesting side for the media is the unpleasant side effects of the tiers - economic. The mental well being side seems to be taking a back seat btw ?. What we are trying to prevent will only get news worthy again when/if Covid-19 buries the NHS again.
In what sense has the Scottish government done better? Sturgeon periodically does a hand-wavy grimace thing whenever mental health gets mentioned before making it perfectly clear that while she of course cares deeply about the issue, it's absolutely secondary to her bizarre elimination fantasy and people will just have to suck it up for the moment. The rules have prevented any households meeting up in private residences for a while here, while the stay-at-home advice has been much more heavily-messaged throughout.What makes me rather cynical about the whole lockdown approach is that mental well being side effects have largely been ignored. This I think is why so many people are flouting the rules as they need to protect their mental well being. In England at least the government’s approach seems to be about keeping as much open, even if it is probably not viable in exchange for ever stricter social gathering restrictions. The Scottish government are a bit better in this respect as they do seem to make a bit more of an effort in considering mental well being.
From a mental well being perspective what I would like the government to do for all three tiers:
1) Allow two households to meet-up indoors. This will allow people to maintain relationships over the winter. Meeting up outdoors in winter is always going to be a struggle.
2) Exempt those living alone and in house / flat shares from the work from home advice. Public sector bodies should be told to open up their offices to these individuals and private sector companies encouraged to do the same.
If the lockdown approach is to continue then to allow the two changes mentioned above it may be that in exchange licensed pubs and restaurants have to close. This may not be as bad as it seems as in tier two areas the current social restrictions probably means they are not viable anyway. At least if they forced to close they can claim some support from the government.