New 4-tier system for England

[Ianno87]

Rumour (from Robert Peston's Twitter) of school's being closed. Bloody brilliant, when kids have had a day to mix. So there's actually *no point* closing now...

 

[Peter0124]

I think the measures for England will be similar to those for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales.

• Limiting exercise to once per day is difficult to enforce - if you are out jogging in the evening, how do the police know whether you went out in the morning as well
• Banning alcohol completely will seriously **** people off, and lead to a lot of black market transactions, as happened during the Second World War.

What happens if you go home for a 5 minute drink/toilet break then go back out again? I'm guessing that counts as exercising more than once a day.

 

[DB]

There is some irony of you doing the same though ("locktivist" and some of other similar terms thrown around in these threads).

What term would you prefer we use? It's a purely descriptive term - these are Lockdown Activists, and Locktivist is a portmanteau of those two words. Same with Maskivist.

It's not the same as calling someone a 'Granny Killer' (or 'Murderer' which the most hysterical sometimes resort to).

 

[WelshBluebird]

Rumour (from Robert Peston's Twitter) of school's being closed. Bloody brilliant, when kids have had a day to mix. So there's actually *no point* closing now...

And yet another example to add to the list of the things the government is late to do then!

What term would you prefer we use? It's a purely descriptive term - these are Lockdown Activists, and Locktivist is a portmanteau of those two words. Same with Maskivist.

It's not the same as calling someone a 'Granny Killer' (or 'Murderer' which the most hysterical sometimes resort to).

Well apart from the fact that by and large, people who support the restrictions are haradly "lockdown activists" because we would all rather we didn't have the need for all of this. Maybe lockdown acceptors is a better descriptive term!

 

[DB]

Well apart from the fact that by and large, people who support the restrictions are haradly "lockdown activists" because we would all rather we didn't have the need for all of this. Maybe lockdown acceptors is a better descriptive term!

The most vocal ones very much are activists, screaming for lockdowns all the time on social media.

 

[Domh245]

Well apart from the fact that by and large, people who support the restrictions are haradly "lockdown activists" because we would all rather we didn't have the need for all of this. Maybe lockdown acceptors is a better descriptive term!

There's a difference between accepting/supporting the restrictions, and actively calling for more restrictions

 

[Richard Scott]

Rumour (from Robert Peston's Twitter) of school's being closed. Bloody brilliant, when kids have had a day to mix. So there's actually *no point* closing now...

Totally wrecking the kids' futures as well.

 

[bramling]

Rumour (from Robert Peston's Twitter) of school's being closed. Bloody brilliant, when kids have had a day to mix. So there's actually *no point* closing now...

One of the worst aspects of all this has been Boris seems to have been behind the game every step of the way. *If* things are going to happen then at least do it proactively.

As you say, how utterly ridiculous to have schools back for one day.

 

[Ianno87]

The saving grace if school closures are strictly for a defined, finite period. Not the never-ending situation in Lockdown 1.

 

[island]

I don't think technically it does no. I think the "emergency" legislation allows changes to the laws without a parliamentary vote. However he has since committed to holding a vote on any changes where possible, but it isn't required and the exact criteria of when a vote will or will not take place has not been set out as far as I know.

Edit: I don't think there was a vote before T4 was introduced, in fact

Legally, the health minister may introduce changes to restrictions, including a third national lockdown, without a prior parliamentary vote. The restrictions would lapse if not endorsed by both houses of parliament within 4 weeks.

A political commitment was made last year not to do so without approval in the House of Commons, however any failure to follow that commitment is a matter between the Commons and the Government, and is not (for example) justiciable.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Curfew would seem pretty pointless this time of the year but some EU countries have used it and in some French departments they've just amended from 8PM to 6PM so they must see it as beneficial.

Curfew wouldn't bother me...I don't get home from work until after 10pm most days...

 

[DB]

A political commitment was made last year not to do so without approval in the House of Commons, however any failure to follow that commitment is a matter between the Commons and the Government, and is not (for example) justiciable.

If only we had an opposition who would tackle this sort of thing! The Christmas announcement just after parliament had stopped sitting is another example of the authoritarian strategy - that very much looked to be deliberate.

 

[bramling]

The saving grace if school closures are strictly for a defined, finite period. Not the never-ending situation in Lockdown 1.

Trouble is one can’t bank on a word he says, especially where dates are concerned.

So the schools could end up going back any time between now and September!

 

[Mag_seven]

The saving grace if school closures are strictly for a defined, finite period. Not the never-ending situation in Lockdown 1.

And as we approach the reopening date be prepared for the cries of "its too early" from the usual suspects.

 

[jumble]

In the summer it was quite common to see people getting beer take-a-way and then drinking it nearby (often right outside), but I can’t quite imagine there is as much demand at the moment given how cold it is.

The Coach and Horses in Ickenham seems to be operating such a takeaway ( Certainly was on Christmas Day)

However you are correct that drinking a pint from a plastic glass in the car park does not compare with sitting in front of a real fire

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

If only we had an opposition who would tackle this sort of thing! The Christmas announcement just after parliament had stopped sitting is another example of the authoritarian strategy - that very much looked to be deliberate.

The opposition want this and probably its only because Starmer winds him up over what to do it actually gets delayed by a few days anyhow. The opposition was coming from Steve Bakers CRG lot but by and large they've fallen by the wayside and only Desmond Swayne has the balls to speak up.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Anything that involves making new Regulations under the 1984 Act requires a Parliamentary vote within 28 days.

Of course in a situation as fast-changing as this, that gives the PM the power to effectively side-line Parliament. He can make superseding Regulations before the existing ones have been voted on. Or he can simply make an identical SI anew, even if it has been voted down in a different guise.

In any case, for the House not to rubber-stamp whatever is put before them would be to break with decades of precedent.

It would also be arithmetically improbable given the pro-restrictions stance of most of the two major parties' MPs. Such a possibility can almost certainly be ruled out.

28 days later... wasn’t that a movie about a post-virus Britain, directed by Danny Boyle?

 

[MikeWM]

The opposition want this and probably its only because Starmer winds him up over what to do it actually gets delayed by a few days anyhow. The opposition was coming from Steve Bakers CRG lot but by and large they've fallen by the wayside and only Desmond Swayne has the balls to speak up.

The CRG people seem to be rather busy extolling how wonderful they think it is to have our freedom from the EU, apparently not noticing that we're currently less free than any time in living memory. Hopefully they can get over being excited about thing A and get back to being more worried about thing B, as soon as possible.

Curfew wouldn't bother me...I don't get home from work until after 10pm most days...

As well as being yet another horrendous expansion of the authoritarian state, it is hard to see it as anything but counterproductive. If I have to go to the supermarket in the afternoon when everyone else is there, as opposed to late at night when it is almost empty, that doesn't help to stop people catching a respiratory virus.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Possibilities include:

• Closure of schools
• working from home required by law unless impossible/on a list of approved occupations
• increased controls on international arrivals
• extension of mask requirements (offices, outdoors, etc.)
• road checkpoints
• multiple adults not allowed to shop together
• overnight curfews
• closing places of worship
• 3 mile limit of travel from your home
• increase to penalties for breaches
• Close zoos
• no going out for recreation, only exercise
• walk-up takeaway food and drink banned, only drive thru or delivery
• non-essential goods by click & collect banned, only delivery
• alcohol and/or tobacco banned or restricted
• exercise limited to once per day
• no travel to other places for exercise; exercise must start and finish at your home
• non-emergency work in people’s homes banned, e.g. no home improvement, Sky installation etc.
• support groups banned
• children’s organised sports banned
• support bubbles abolished or limited

For the avoidance of doubt I am not advocating any of these nor even suggesting they would work, but there is still a considerable amount of available interventions.

I was on a bus just now with my other half and I jokingly said the next restriction will be ‘no talking!’.
A young Italian student relayed this to his mother, in his native language, and she laughed. On reflection, though... if they’ve banned singing in groups, told pubs (when they were open) to have live tv on low volume, to discourage shouting, I don’t think I can 100% rule this out

... a virus with a survival rate of at least 99.7%, and which has already demonstrates that it can happily bypass any restrictions and carry on spreading.

Trying to eliminate this virus is as futile as attempting to nail a jelly to a wall

 

[The_Train]

The most vocal ones very much are activists, screaming for lockdowns all the time on social media.

And equally those screaming against lockdowns all the time on social media are very much activists, by this reckoning.

It is this name-calling, branding and the putting down of people with differing opinions (instead of actually offering up solid counter arguments using facts) that has lead us to situations like Trump, Brexit and the worst Government in the history of UK politics.

If you attack people, they will fight back in the only ways they think they can - usually whilst grouping together to become a majority. If both sides actually try to reason, then maybe a middle ground can be found that isn't quite so bad as either end of the scales.

 

[DB]

And equally those screaming against lockdowns all the time on social media are very much activists, by this reckoning.

It is this name-calling, branding and the putting down of people with differing opinions (instead of actually offering up solid counter arguments using facts) that has lead us to situations like Trump, Brexit and the worst Government in the history of UK politics.

If you attack people, they will fight back in the only ways they think they can - usually whilst grouping together to become a majority. If both sides actually try to reason, then maybe a middle ground can be found that isn't quite so bad as either end of the scales.

Not being locked down is the natural state of affairs - someone who is advoating that cannot be an activist.

Plenty of counter-arguments using facts have been offered - it simply doesn't work and just receives simplistic answers like "but people are dying" and "so you think we should just let old people die?". No matter how much it is pointed out that the statistics, worldwide, show little or no benefit from restrictions they won't take any notice - in their view, something must be done, and restrictions are something, so they must be done.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

If only we had an opposition who would tackle this sort of thing! The Christmas announcement just after parliament had stopped sitting is another example of the authoritarian strategy - that very much looked to be deliberate.

You think?
A new variant was discovered to be more transmissible on the Monday, but the situation was deemed so urgent that they waited until the Saturday to introduce ‘emergency’ changes, when Parliament was no longer sitting

 

[bramling]

You think?
A new variant was discovered to be more transmissible on the Monday, but the situation was deemed so urgent that they waited until the Saturday to introduce ‘emergency’ changes, when Parliament was no longer sitting

Unfortunately it’s hard to give BJ benefit of the doubt on this, when one remembers the saga over parliament being prorogued.

 

[JamesT]

You think?
A new variant was discovered to be more transmissible on the Monday, but the situation was deemed so urgent that they waited until the Saturday to introduce ‘emergency’ changes, when Parliament was no longer sitting

The government claimed they only received the advice which made them make the changes on the Friday. Normally I’d take that with a pinch of salt, but Scotland made their change at the same time and normally Sturgeon takes every opportunity to show she’s reacting faster than Boris.

 

[21C101]

If only we had an opposition who would tackle this sort of thing! The Christmas announcement just after parliament had stopped sitting is another example of the authoritarian strategy - that very much looked to be deliberate.

If the opposition was in power I suspect that we would not be allowed out of the house without a formal permit and mask compulsory at all times, as is the case in some EU member states.

Unfortunately Boris is the most liberal option we have on lockdowns and masks etc,

 

[duncanp]

With half an hour to go until the big announcement, shall we have a game of Boris Briefing Bingo?

There are 24 words and phrases on this card, so perhaps everyone could pick 6, and we can see who wins.

 

[JonathanP]

Not being locked down is the natural state of affairs - someone who is advoating that cannot be an activist.

Plenty of counter-arguments using facts have been offered - it simply doesn't work and just receives simplistic answers like "but people are dying" and "so you think we should just let old people die?". No matter how much it is pointed out that the statistics, worldwide, show little or no benefit from restrictions they won't take any notice - in their view, something must be done, and restrictions are something, so they must be done.

That makes as much sense as saying that anyone campaigning for an end to a war is not activitist, because not being at war is the "natural state of affairs".

The "natural state of affairs"(as conveniently defined by you to be the exactly the thing you are advocating) is a not what matters, it is the current state of affairs.

 

[_toommm_]

• Working tirelessly
• Rampant
• Unprecedented ✅
• With a heavy heart ✅
• We will beat this
• Collective duty ✅

 

[Merseysider]

With half an hour to go until the big announcement, shall we have a game of Boris Briefing Bingo?

There are 24 words and phrases on this card, so perhaps everyone could pick 6, and we can see who wins.

Sounds good

I’m going with the third column down plus unforeseen

 

[takno]

That makes as much sense as saying that anyone advocating for and end to a war is not activitist, because not being at war is the "natural state of affairs".

The "natural state of affairs"(as conveniently defined by you to be the exactly thing you are advoacting) is a not what matters, it is the current state of affairs.

FWIW I have no issues with anybody on either side being called an activist for strongly expressing a view. It's when people get called murderers, or are told they are idiots by people who quite clearly have no basis for making that claim