Arriva Buses (including Greenline)

[cnjb8]

They could have, but they’re all in a poor state of repair and would take time and money to get back on the road. I’d heard most were long term VOR having been stripped of parts and will more than likely all end up scrapped.

Have Arriva High Wycombe still got a motley collection of long term VOR buses parked up as well?

Having just looked at the Ensign sales list, it says about half of the E200s sold were in bad condition and went straight to scrap, but the other half have been sold to operators for use

 

[A0wen]

I'd personally love them to lose MK, as they are awful at it, though selling it to Stagecoach (my preference by a long way) could provoke the competition authorities to have concerns as they did last time that same thing happened, and I think I'd rather stick with Arriva than get First in.

I think of all of Arriva's operations the old 'The Shires' operation and I include MK in that, is the most problematic.

Both London Country & United Counties struggled to be profitable in the 70s and 80s.

If you look on line the Competiton Commission's report into the Arriva takeover of Sovereign is in the public domain. The CC asked the other major groups whether they had plans to start operations in Herts and whether this would cause problems. All of them (Stagecoach, First, Nat Express and Go Ahead) said they had no plans to start operations in Herts. Stagecoach said there were more profitable areas to operate than Herts. Only Go Ahead voiced a slight concern that they may have considered Sovereign as a way into the market, but it was pretty weak.

Blazefield's rationale for selling Sovereign was its margins were much lower than its other operations.

I think the old Shires depots will end up being sold piecemeal. Stagecoach might look at Luton and Stevenage to bolt onto Stagecoach East for example. But more than that, I doubt.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think of all of Arriva's operations the old 'The Shires' operation and I include MK in that, is the most problematic.

Really? The old Midland Red North operations are not exactly in great shape, declining markedly over recent years.

I'd suggest that Luton area is pretty strong and there's probably enough in Wycombe and Aylesbury to sustain them. Not so certain about MK (always a tough ask) and places like Harlow have always been tough.

 

[Robertj21a]

Really? The old Midland Red North operations are not exactly in great shape, declining markedly over recent years.

I'd suggest that Luton area is pretty strong and there's probably enough in Wycombe and Aylesbury to sustain them. Not so certain about MK (always a tough ask) and places like Harlow have always been tough.

Not The Shires, but I'd probably be looking at Tunbridge Wells and Maidstone too.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Not The Shires, but I'd probably be looking at Tunbridge Wells and Maidstone too.

Tunbridge Wells is a good shout. Was down there six months ago. Appreciate social distancing meant older deckers being used extensively and was genuinely shocked how poor the fleet was.

 

[A0wen]

Really? The old Midland Red North operations are not exactly in great shape, declining markedly over recent years.

I'd suggest that Luton area is pretty strong and there's probably enough in Wycombe and Aylesbury to sustain them. Not so certain about MK (always a tough ask) and places like Harlow have always been tough.

As I said, I could see Stagecoach taking Luton and maybe Stevenage and bundling them into Stagecoach East, but the rest of the old Shires operation looks chronically weak.

Wycombe's been poor for years, don't forget LCBS closed its Wycombe depot in the 1970s and the network in that area was joint between LCBS (from Amersham) and Alder Valley.

The Shires only moved back to Wycombe when they vacated the Amersham site and acquired the Wycombe Bus operations from Go Ahead (which had been originally Alder Valley / Berks Bucks).

Harlow's out on a limb (and always waa as LCBS) - Harlow and Grays should have been part of Eastern National.

Hemel's a shadow of what it was and that's even after taking over Garston's routes around Watford.

Ware's got one "trunk" route - the 310 to Waltham X and the rest of it is bits and pieces. I could see Arriva passing the 310 to Arriva London at Enfield and ditching the rest.

MK's had a chequered history which is well known. Arguably the mistake was making an MK only division and not putting it with L&D at the split in 1986.

 

[markymark2000]

As I said, I could see Stagecoach taking Luton and maybe Stevenage and bundling them into Stagecoach East, but the rest of the old Shires operation looks chronically weak.

Wycombe's been poor for years, don't forget LCBS closed its Wycombe depot in the 1970s and the network in that area was joint between LCBS (from Amersham) and Alder Valley.

The Shires only moved back to Wycombe when they vacated the Amersham site and acquired the Wycombe Bus operations from Go Ahead (which had been originally Alder Valley / Berks Bucks).

Harlow's out on a limb (and always waa as LCBS) - Harlow and Grays should have been part of Eastern National.

Hemel's a shadow of what it was and that's even after taking over Garston's routes around Watford.

Ware's got one "trunk" route - the 310 to Waltham X and the rest of it is bits and pieces. I could see Arriva passing the 310 to Arriva London at Enfield and ditching the rest.

MK's had a chequered history which is well known. Arguably the mistake was making an MK only division and not putting it with L&D at the split in 1986.

Rather than pointing out Arriva depots which are slowly failing, it may be better to post the ones which are doing really well and would be on the cards to be kept as long as possible. It would be a much smaller list for everyone to read.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

As I said, I could see Stagecoach taking Luton and maybe Stevenage and bundling them into Stagecoach East, but the rest of the old Shires operation looks chronically weak.

Wycombe's been poor for years, don't forget LCBS closed its Wycombe depot in the 1970s and the network in that area was joint between LCBS (from Amersham) and Alder Valley.

The Shires only moved back to Wycombe when they vacated the Amersham site and acquired the Wycombe Bus operations from Go Ahead (which had been originally Alder Valley / Berks Bucks).

Harlow's out on a limb (and always waa as LCBS) - Harlow and Grays should have been part of Eastern National.

Hemel's a shadow of what it was and that's even after taking over Garston's routes around Watford.

Ware's got one "trunk" route - the 310 to Waltham X and the rest of it is bits and pieces. I could see Arriva passing the 310 to Arriva London at Enfield and ditching the rest.

MK's had a chequered history which is well known. Arguably the mistake was making an MK only division and not putting it with L&D at the split in 1986.

That's not what I meant. Luton and Aylesbury and Wycombe have got enough about them for Arriva to retain. Stagecoach buying Luton - I don't think so.

As for Wycombe, yes they closed the depot at the bottom of Marlow Hill in the late 1970s but it was one of those anachronisms of old and arguably, there was certainly enough there for Go Ahead and for Arriva to then buy. It wasn't a case that Arriva closed Amersham and needed to find another home - Amersham depot closed in 1989.

The problem with Harlow (and arguably Hemel and Stevenage) is that new towns are inherently difficult to serve, and the ones near London are even more difficult to turn a dime. However, some of that is definitely due to poor management from Arriva.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The problem with Harlow (and arguably Hemel and Stevenage) is that new towns are inherently difficult to serve, and the ones near London are even more difficult to turn a dime. However, some of that is definitely due to poor management from Arriva.

Same with MK, though a fairly small commercial network does seem viable. I do think, though, that a bit of Alex Hornby/Best Impressions style sparkle (which needn't cost *that* much) would have a bit of a chance in making it a bit less of a distress purchase. With its fast, uncongested roads, MK is unlikely to ever end up in a situation where buses beat cars on journey time, and parking isn't an issue, so you have to make the service good in other ways.

To be fair to Arriva MK does now have a fairly large number of new buses, most of the old ex-MK Metro dross has departed, ideally for the scrapyard. But I still find attention to detail is poor, e.g. when a panel gets damaged it just gets gaffer-taped up permanently and still rattles like anything, and TBH I think the Sapphire interior with the blue lighting is just a bit chavvy and doesn't at all give the luxury impression that is probably needed to attract people out of cars, it's more going to appeal to teenagers who don't have cars to start with.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Tunbridge Wells is a good shout. Was down there six months ago. Appreciate social distancing meant older deckers being used extensively and was genuinely shocked how poor the fleet was.

The current depot which they moved into in 2018 is also now advertised 'To Let'. The advert seems to show and describe both of the two buildings that make up the site.

https://www.durlings.co.uk/property...dustrial-estate-tunbridge-wells-kent-tn2-3up/

 

[A0wen]

That's not what I meant. Luton and Aylesbury and Wycombe have got enough about them for Arriva to retain. Stagecoach buying Luton - I don't think so.

You reckon? Luton might be viable. Not sure Aylesbury or Wycombe are though. And why not Stagecoach for Luton?

As for Wycombe, yes they closed the depot at the bottom of Marlow Hill in the late 1970s but it was one of those anachronisms of old and arguably, there was certainly enough there for Go Ahead and for Arriva to then buy. It wasn't a case that Arriva closed Amersham and needed to find another home - Amersham depot closed in 1989.

Well Go Ahead bought the Bee Line operations, Arriva was formed from what had been LCNW. But neither ever did that well in Wycombe - the fact they've ended up as one operation shows that.

The problem with Harlow (and arguably Hemel and Stevenage) is that new towns are inherently difficult to serve, and the ones near London are even more difficult to turn a dime. However, some of that is definitely due to poor management from Arriva.

Stevenage and Hemel used to have fairly extensive local networks - the majority of which were run commercially (I don't think any of Hemel's town services were HCC contracts except as Eve/Sun). A couple of Stevenage's were contracts. Of all the Herts ones it was the whole of the Welwyn Hatfield locals which were.

Stevenage and Hemel (and probably Harlow) have probably been hurt by the decline of town centre shopping more than anything else - the buses didn't adapt and continued to run to the town centres when fewer people were travelling there.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Bit of a stretch but would Go-Ahead COMS be an option for taking the MK / Aylesbury operations?

Go-Ahead or Diamond would be my shout along with Transdev as a wild card.

 

[overthewater]

Are we not getting ahead of ourselves? I dont think some of these areas, are the areas which Arriva would sell off without damaging it's main purpose of doing a complete group sell off.

 

[Robertj21a]

Are we not getting ahead of ourselves? I dont think some of these areas, are the areas which Arriva would sell off without damaging it's main purpose of doing a complete group sell off.

Rather like First Group, I'm sure that Arriva would consider any sensible offer, for any part of their operations.

 

[overthewater]

Im Surprised Go-Ahead has tried to acquire Colchester, as it would be decent fit into its operations down there.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You reckon? Luton might be viable. Not sure Aylesbury or Wycombe are though. And why not Stagecoach for Luton?

Yes, I do reckon. Luton isn't just viable - it's still a strong operation. Aylesbury was always stronger than people think and as for Wycombe...

Well Go Ahead bought the Bee Line operations, Arriva was formed from what had been LCNW. But neither ever did that well in Wycombe - the fact they've ended up as one operation shows that.

....Amersham depot closed in 1989, and LC Wycombe was about 1977/8. The Alder Valley/Berk Bucks/Wycombe Bus Co operation was always the greater part and so when the opportunity came in 2000 to purchase it, it made a lot of sense.

Stevenage and Hemel used to have fairly extensive local networks - the majority of which were run commercially (I don't think any of Hemel's town services were HCC contracts except as Eve/Sun). A couple of Stevenage's were contracts. Of all the Herts ones it was the whole of the Welwyn Hatfield locals which were.

Stevenage and Hemel (and probably Harlow) have probably been hurt by the decline of town centre shopping more than anything else - the buses didn't adapt and continued to run to the town centres when fewer people were travelling there.

Stevenage locals were always fairly strong and, of course, the depot there benefited with the folding in of certain of the former Hitchin operations. However, Harlow despite having some similarities, was always more of a problem child, hence it's split off and then return to the main fold.

I really don't see Arriva selling off large, lucrative depots like Luton piecemeal when they are attempting to have an IPO. What would they hope to gain by floating off the dross on the stock exchange, having sold the best bits to other firms?

Are we not getting ahead of ourselves? I dont think some of these areas, are the areas which Arriva would sell off without damaging it's main purpose of doing a complete group sell off.

Exactly

Rather like First Group, I'm sure that Arriva would consider any sensible offer, for any part of their operations.

Not when they are intending to have an IPO where the potential gains from a full stock market offering are going to be much more than a bit of flogging off here and there.

Yes, they are getting rid of a few bits and pieces; apparently, Cannock was losing a small fortune and they were happy to sell it. As we saw with First Group, seemingly every depot was apparently of interest "at the right price" but that pre-supposes that anyone is going to offer what Arriva think its worth.

Im Surprised Go-Ahead has tried to acquire Colchester, as it would be decent fit into its operations down there.

You mean hasn't?

Who knows if they may have enquired. After all, Arriva sold Colchester once only to get it back again with the TGM purchase.

 

[Robertj21a]

Is Arriva still planning an IPO?

 

[Roilshead]

Harlow's out on a limb (and always waa as LCBS) - Harlow and Grays should have been part of Eastern National.

Really? There was no joint operation between Harlow and Eastern National, but Harlow did operate jointly with other LCBS garages on both stage, and both orbital and cross-London Green Line duties. Grays was isolated from the rest of LCBS, but would have been out-on-a-limb for Eastern National. And there were ex-London Transport staff agreements unique to LCBS which would have caused problems had NBC tried to transfer any LCBS depots to neighbouring subsidiaries.

 

[overthewater]

You mean hasn't?

Who knows if they may have enquired. After all, Arriva sold Colchester once only to get it back again with the TGM purchase.

Yes, I did mean Hasn''t. Its one of the main areas along with parts of Wales which wouldn't I would say effect overall state of the company.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Is Arriva still planning an IPO?

Postponed but the issues for DB persist.

 

[Volvodart]

The IPO for May 2020- was delayed before the covid crisis started, but no reason was given for the delay. It might have been forewarning of covid, but at that time there were minimal deaths in Europe from it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The IPO for May 2020- was delayed before the covid crisis started, but no reason was given for the delay. It might have been forewarning of covid, but at that time there were minimal deaths in Europe from it.

Indeed, it was postponed before Covid. Even if DB have now elected not to proceed (though this hasn't been said) then there's nothing to suggest that stuff like closing Sheerness depot and Pwllhelli outstation, flogging off Cannock and Yorkshire Tiger, and perhaps a few more sales of problem children, is a prelude to some trolley dash of disposals.

What is certain is that over the last 3/4 years, Arriva have totally lost whatever strategic direction and the comparisons with First ten years ago are something that I've mentioned a few times. The fleet age profile isn't as bad as First's was, but instead of DDA, we have increasing demands for low emission vehicles and a business that seems to have had relatively little capital to spend, and is suffering from a paralysis of decision making. Moreover, in the absence of a plan to develop the business (or staunch the decline), they have delayered their management teams. It was bad enough when Arriva Fox and Arriva Mids North were merged, so places like Shrewsbury and Oswestry were managed from Leicester (and still are) but then to add on half of the Shires for good measure. The idea that Luton is managed from Leicester but that Stevenage is managed from Maidstone....

First have learned that good local management is the best approach. Yes, there's a balance to be struck or each depot would have it's own MD (!) and First South West has a fair sized patch with Cornwall and Somerset. However, I see little in Arriva to suggest that their management has the sufficient depth or skill to manage disparate operations within the corporate strait jacket that they find themselves in.

 

[A0wen]

Really? There was no joint operation between Harlow and Eastern National, but Harlow did operate jointly with other LCBS garages on both stage, and both orbital and cross-London Green Line duties. Grays was isolated from the rest of LCBS, but would have been out-on-a-limb for Eastern National. And there were ex-London Transport staff agreements unique to LCBS which would have caused problems had NBC tried to transfer any LCBS depots to neighbouring subsidiaries.

Harlow's joint working with other garages was quite limited, maybe a couple of bits with Hertford, but not much. On Green Line, by privatisation I think it was down to 2 routes - the 724 to Heathrow (which may have been running as the 524 to Watford at that time, there was a point in the 80s when it didn't make Heathrow) and the 711 London service.

If you look at this map you can see why Grays and Harlow would have made sense as part of EN:

Eastern National had depots at Bishops Stortford, Brentwood, Basildon and Canvey Island.

Grays was totally cut off from the rest of LCBS. Harlow would have been a good fit for EN.

The problem was the LT history of LCBS, not for the first time that ridiculous piece of legislation from the 1930s which gave the LTPB far too much of an area outside London, created some ridiculous anomalies.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Harlow's joint working with other garages was quite limited, maybe a couple of bits with Hertford, but not much. On Green Line, by privatisation I think it was down to 2 routes - the 724 to Heathrow (which may have been running as the 524 to Watford at that time, there was a point in the 80s when it didn't make Heathrow) and the 711 London service.

If you look at this map you can see why Grays and Harlow would have made sense as part of EN:

Eastern National had depots at Bishops Stortford, Brentwood, Basildon and Canvey Island.

Grays was totally cut off from the rest of LCBS. Harlow would have been a good fit for EN.

The problem was the LT history of LCBS, not for the first time that ridiculous piece of legislation from the 1930s which gave the LTPB far too much of an area outside London, created some ridiculous anomalies.

I guess that these anomalies have often occurred where boundaries meet and where geography has defined travel patterns. Bishops Stortford was a bit of an outlier with Eastern National though that was probably more so when places like Hitchin, Luton and Aylesbury passed to United Counties in 1952,

Hitchin is another of those places where London Transport maintained a small depot and you could have pointed to Crawley and East Grinstead that both had LT/LC and Southdown depots, and Gravesend/Northfleet with LT/LC and Maidstone and District.

Grays probably made sense to be LT back in the day but when the country services became LCBS, it would've sat more logically with EN. Not so certain with Harlow - it probably did make sense (and perhaps also being filled with Londoners relocated from the bombed-out capital).

 

[Llandudno]

Yes they do. They have depots in Wrexham, Rhyl, Chester (England) and Bangor.

Plus an outstation in Llandudno based in the Alpine Coach company depot near the station.

 

[Geordie driver]

I assume the Arriva Newcastle depot is still up for sale? Prime piece of land IMHO.

The fleet round here looks very old and tired to my eyes, I understand services passing Beamish museum often get mistaken as part of the display.

Does Arriva North East make a decent profit in normal times?

 

[M803UYA]

Indeed, it was postponed before Covid. Even if DB have now elected not to proceed (though this hasn't been said) then there's nothing to suggest that stuff like closing Sheerness depot and Pwllhelli outstation, flogging off Cannock and Yorkshire Tiger, and perhaps a few more sales of problem children, is a prelude to some trolley dash of disposals.

What is certain is that over the last 3/4 years, Arriva have totally lost whatever strategic direction and the comparisons with First ten years ago are something that I've mentioned a few times. The fleet age profile isn't as bad as First's was, but instead of DDA, we have increasing demands for low emission vehicles and a business that seems to have had relatively little capital to spend, and is suffering from a paralysis of decision making. Moreover, in the absence of a plan to develop the business (or staunch the decline), they have delayered their management teams. It was bad enough when Arriva Fox and Arriva Mids North were merged, so places like Shrewsbury and Oswestry were managed from Leicester (and still are) but then to add on half of the Shires for good measure. The idea that Luton is managed from Leicester but that Stevenage is managed from Maidstone....

First have learned that good local management is the best approach. Yes, there's a balance to be struck or each depot would have it's own MD (!) and First South West has a fair sized patch with Cornwall and Somerset. However, I see little in Arriva to suggest that their management has the sufficient depth or skill to manage disparate operations within the corporate strait jacket that they find themselves in.

Speaking as an ex assistant manager working out of Maidstone 5 years ago, we were well aware that new vehicle investment was undertaken if budget was achieved. How achievable that budget was didn't register in the decision making. As ASC didn't make it's budget and has been loss making ever since it has received very little in new investment. Subsequent people who've gone in also have made any money, so it has received little, to no investment in new buses. I managed 8 months before I left working in siege conditions with bullying management and directors, demand reschedule after reschedule. At this point they were going out to bait and switch people from other operators to join them in their quest to change the business and to make more money. There was the idea that each depot should have a general manager, which was instituted. In the case of Maidstone's, he had no office, just a phone and eventually found a spare one in the main depot building after a week!
You had people in the company who stayed out of loyalty - some long timers who had decades to their name, and who were treated extremely poorly by the higher ups in the company. Gone are the days of being loyal to an employer in the modern bus industry. No longer is it a job for life, it's something you do for a while, then move on elsewhere. Noticeable that those who go there seem to have a year, then go, or they stay for life.
This lack of new bus investment is quite surprising given the population density of the Medway Towns (compared to rural East Kent) - it should be decent bus territory but on the whole provides a poor quality unreliable service using vehicles which should be on a one way trip to Barnsley and charges eye watering fares. Successive First style service changes which eliminate a bus or two from the overall peak vehicle requirement (PVR) simply spreads the overhead over fewer and fewer vehicles, ultimately leading to the closure of the depots and further reductions in vehicles.
Having decided not to invest in new vehicles, instead old ones continue to operate on services. These old vehicles do not receive preventative maintenance, rather they receive reactive maintenance and they respond to issues, rather than trying to plan for them. So, buses break down, are towed in, the 'fault' is fixed, out it goes the day after and the same fault causes another breakdown, bus is towed in, rinse and repeat. Little if anything was done to address the causes of failure (say a light bulb went out on a bus and a replacement was fitted, then it blew) - you had this battle each morning to achieve PVR.
In the midst of trying to maintain a fleet of 16/17 year old DAF deckers and Dennis Tridents and the allegedly reliable 04 plate Volvo B7TLs a number of 02/52 reg DAF deckers arrived from Leicester, thanks to their new fleet of Enviro 400 MMC buses. Out of the batch that came, two were used briefly and the other ones parked up at the top of the depot as unserviceable. The very last one of these wasn't able to make the journey south under it's own steam, instead having a lift from a tow truck. I don't think that ever entered traffic!
Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells have some very good routes which are profitable, yet they want for investment in new vehicles. You should have regular investment in new buses there which do a few years, then get moved elsewhere in the company. Like First, Arriva expects new buses to generate growth, rather than be present because the other buses have left for the scrapyard. Some of the responses I got to the question of how were these good routes to get new vehicles were quite illuminating.
My Arriva experiences were eerily similar to those described in John Cash's series of 1997 Buses articles, one of which was where he wrote of his time running Macclesfield depot as C Line. Unachieveable budgets, antiquated buses which need engineering attention, endless service changes, low staff morale all resonate with me and are easily comparable with my short time in Kent!
Arriva seem to be in the same rut First was 10 years ago - ironic given their adoption of First's strategy from 2004/5. They have a number of areas which should generate good returns, Yorkshire being one but again here I see the same mishmash of vehicles, liveries and branding that doesn't really tell me what the product is about. Remote management doesn't work in what should be a local business. Remote ideas such as liveries and branding, can work nationally when rolled out properly with the right buy in from all involved. I don't see how Arriva is there, shows any sign of being there anytime soon or that it has an idea how to get out of it's present situation. There needs to be a lot of targeted money thrown at it, but given that Arriva is one of the profitable parts of DB that is unlikely.

 

[A0wen]

I guess that these anomalies have often occurred where boundaries meet and where geography has defined travel patterns. Bishops Stortford was a bit of an outlier with Eastern National though that was probably more so when places like Hitchin, Luton and Aylesbury passed to United Counties in 1952,

Hitchin is another of those places where London Transport maintained a small depot and you could have pointed to Crawley and East Grinstead that both had LT/LC and Southdown depots, and Gravesend/Northfleet with LT/LC and Maidstone and District.

Grays probably made sense to be LT back in the day but when the country services became LCBS, it would've sat more logically with EN. Not so certain with Harlow - it probably did make sense (and perhaps also being filled with Londoners relocated from the bombed-out capital).

I disagree on Bishops Stortford - conscious we're going a bit OT - the amount of travel between Bishops Stortford and places to points west in Herts has always been quite limited. Most of the places are villages in that part of Herts, so apart from Hertford, the only other services would have been the sporadic market day routes to places like Buntingford, Royston and maybe Hitchin. Whereas Bishops Stortford is 20 miles to Chelmsford where EN's head office was.

It definitely wasn't a natural one to go when the Western operations were transferred to United Counties, it wasn't really a London Country one - though Bishops Stortford was in the London Passenger Transport Area (LPTA) it wasn't in the LPTB 'Special Area' where LT had a monopoly.

Grays was actually *outside* the LPTA, map here on Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Passenger_Transport_Board

Harlow was in the LPTA - but like so many other places, really shouldn't have been. That limit should have been roughly what the M25 is today. The problem it caused is it saddled Herts South Bucks, Surrey and bits of Kent with a cost heavy bus operation that was slow to adapt because it was based on providing a service for a city, not suburban / rural areas. And that's lead to the situation today where such operations are at best marginally profitable and more commonly unprofitable.

It'll be interesting to see the next step with Arriva, and also if Stagecoach or Go Ahead start picking up bits, what the Competition Commission's response is.

 

[markymark2000]

Speaking as an ex assistant manager working out of Maidstone 5 years ago, we were well aware that new vehicle investment was undertaken if budget was achieved. How achievable that budget was didn't register in the decision making. As ASC didn't make it's budget and has been loss making ever since it has received very little in new investment. Subsequent people who've gone in also have made any money, so it has received little, to no investment in new buses. I managed 8 months before I left working in siege conditions with bullying management and directors, demand reschedule after reschedule. At this point they were going out to bait and switch people from other operators to join them in their quest to change the business and to make more money. There was the idea that each depot should have a general manager, which was instituted. In the case of Maidstone's, he had no office, just a phone and eventually found a spare one in the main depot building after a week!
You had people in the company who stayed out of loyalty - some long timers who had decades to their name, and who were treated extremely poorly by the higher ups in the company. Gone are the days of being loyal to an employer in the modern bus industry. No longer is it a job for life, it's something you do for a while, then move on elsewhere. Noticeable that those who go there seem to have a year, then go, or they stay for life.
This lack of new bus investment is quite surprising given the population density of the Medway Towns (compared to rural East Kent) - it should be decent bus territory but on the whole provides a poor quality unreliable service using vehicles which should be on a one way trip to Barnsley and charges eye watering fares. Successive First style service changes which eliminate a bus or two from the overall peak vehicle requirement (PVR) simply spreads the overhead over fewer and fewer vehicles, ultimately leading to the closure of the depots and further reductions in vehicles.
Having decided not to invest in new vehicles, instead old ones continue to operate on services. These old vehicles do not receive preventative maintenance, rather they receive reactive maintenance and they respond to issues, rather than trying to plan for them. So, buses break down, are towed in, the 'fault' is fixed, out it goes the day after and the same fault causes another breakdown, bus is towed in, rinse and repeat. Little if anything was done to address the causes of failure (say a light bulb went out on a bus and a replacement was fitted, then it blew) - you had this battle each morning to achieve PVR.
In the midst of trying to maintain a fleet of 16/17 year old DAF deckers and Dennis Tridents and the allegedly reliable 04 plate Volvo B7TLs a number of 02/52 reg DAF deckers arrived from Leicester, thanks to their new fleet of Enviro 400 MMC buses. Out of the batch that came, two were used briefly and the other ones parked up at the top of the depot as unserviceable. The very last one of these wasn't able to make the journey south under it's own steam, instead having a lift from a tow truck. I don't think that ever entered traffic!
Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells have some very good routes which are profitable, yet they want for investment in new vehicles. You should have regular investment in new buses there which do a few years, then get moved elsewhere in the company. Like First, Arriva expects new buses to generate growth, rather than be present because the other buses have left for the scrapyard. Some of the responses I got to the question of how were these good routes to get new vehicles were quite illuminating.
My Arriva experiences were eerily similar to those described in John Cash's series of 1997 Buses articles, one of which was where he wrote of his time running Macclesfield depot as C Line. Unachieveable budgets, antiquated buses which need engineering attention, endless service changes, low staff morale all resonate with me and are easily comparable with my short time in Kent!
Arriva seem to be in the same rut First was 10 years ago - ironic given their adoption of First's strategy from 2004/5. They have a number of areas which should generate good returns, Yorkshire being one but again here I see the same mishmash of vehicles, liveries and branding that doesn't really tell me what the product is about. Remote management doesn't work in what should be a local business. Remote ideas such as liveries and branding, can work nationally when rolled out properly with the right buy in from all involved. I don't see how Arriva is there, shows any sign of being there anytime soon or that it has an idea how to get out of it's present situation. There needs to be a lot of targeted money thrown at it, but given that Arriva is one of the profitable parts of DB that is unlikely.

Given your role, can I ask how much is done from the shared service centres and how does the service from these shared centres trickle down in terms of satisfaction amongst employees and customers? I know Luton deals with all the customer service and from my experience, they aren't the bed and I will avoid them where I can but I struggle to get hold of anyone within Arriva in a local area who can actually help with an enquiry as contact details are kept very hidden, this includes depot phone numbers to enquire about immediate travel enquiries like late buses, lost property or diversions. For me as a customers, this reflects very badly on the company, is that a feeling which is shared among the wider passengers and also staff within?
I also know that Newcastle/Doxford has a lot of say over local areas to the extent I believe they complete timetables and duties for the North West operations. Is this a company wide thing having networks planned by Newcastle/Doxford with minimal local knowledge? I know in my area, this has lead to a lot of services not working and then due to the lack of local knowledge, services aren't adapted to suit local needs leading to the decline in numbers and.... well... death by 100 cuts. IF Newcastle/Doxford do timetables/duties for other areas, does this negatively effect local operations and give a lack of motivation as you are told to run a network but are always micromanaged from above and not given the opportunity to act on customer comments?

 

[A0wen]

Given your role, can I ask how much is done from the shared service centres and how does the service from these shared centres trickle down in terms of satisfaction amongst employees and customers? I know Luton deals with all the customer service and from my experience, they aren't the bed and I will avoid them where I can but I struggle to get hold of anyone within Arriva in a local area who can actually help with an enquiry as contact details are kept very hidden, this includes depot phone numbers to enquire about immediate travel enquiries like late buses, lost property or diversions. For me as a customers, this reflects very badly on the company, is that a feeling which is shared among the wider passengers and also staff within?
I also know that Newcastle/Doxford has a lot of say over local areas to the extent I believe they complete timetables and duties for the North West operations. Is this a company wide thing having networks planned by Newcastle/Doxford with minimal local knowledge? I know in my area, this has lead to a lot of services not working and then due to the lack of local knowledge, services aren't adapted to suit local needs leading to the decline in numbers and.... well... death by 100 cuts. IF Newcastle/Doxford do timetables/duties for other areas, does this negatively effect local operations and give a lack of motivation as you are told to run a network but are always micromanaged from above and not given the opportunity to act on customer comments?

Whether you like it or no, the central model for customer queries is the most cost effective way of dealing with questions. Chances are there isn't anybody available in the depots to handle ad-hoc phone calls, same as for individual bank branches.

Interestingly most of the major companies will post on social media about diversions, late buses etc - and whilst I know the argument will be 'but what about those who don't have a smart phone', you can make that point about pretty much anything. Back in the day you could pay be cheques in stores, that's no longer the case, back in the day you could pay your gas or electricity bill by cash, again that's no longer the case. There are relatively very few people who don't have or use a smart phone - the stats for 2020 say 84% of adults have a smart phone - it was 34% in 2011 and 58% in 2015. And whilst the approx 15% who don't tend to be in the older age group, those in their 60s are already familiar with and using smartphones are going to be the 70 somethings fairly soon, so the number will continue to diminish.

The question about local input into timetabling and routing decisions is reasonable - that's absolutely something which should happen. But to go back 20 years and provide depot phone numbers and employ people to field occasional queries or lost property handling isn't viable.