Progress of delivery of cascaded/refurbished/PRM modified stock to TFW/Wales and Borders

[Rhydgaled]

153335 is 153935 and the 153/9s can only work attached to a fully PRM compliant unit.
They can be found working all over the TFW Network except north of Radyr (not cleared). .

153s can't be found working on the Cambrian line either, only 158s there (and the odd class 97 or 37), and (I understand) are unlikely to be seen on Wrexham-Bidston due to timekeeping issues?

 

[adrock1976]

153335 is 153935 and the 153/9s can only work attached to a fully PRM compliant unit.
They can be found working all over the TFW Network except north of Radyr (not cleared). .

153s can't be found working on the Cambrian line either, only 158s there (and the odd class 97 or 37), and (I understand) are unlikely to be seen on Wrexham-Bidston due to timekeeping issues?

Thanks both.

I already knew about the Cambrian as that is exclusively 158s at this moment in time due to the signalling system (not Radio Electronic Token Block, but the one that London Crossrail is using for the tunnelled section).

 

[Watershed]

There are also timekeeping issues when a 75mph (downhill, with a tailwind) 153 is put on a 100mph timed Carmarthen-Manchester service.

That hasn't stopped it from happening on several occasions in the last few months!

 

[PHILIPE]

153s can't be found working on the Cambrian line either, only 158s there (and the odd class 97 or 37), and (I understand) are unlikely to be seen on Wrexham-Bidston due to timekeeping issues?

Fancy forgetting that

They can and have recently worked to Bidston but only in an emergency if no Class 150 available. A pair worked last of the day and first next morning when the opportunity arose to swap out. They have frequently been to Bidston recently on Route Learning Specials to Birkenhead North Depot.

 

[JakeMurphy]

There are also timekeeping issues when a 75mph (downhill, with a tailwind) 153 is put on a 100mph timed Carmarthen-Manchester service.

That hasn't stopped it from happening on several occasions in the last few months!

Today included!

 

[sd0733]

Today included!

Today was much more overcrowding than the speed. On the way up it wasnt too bad.
312+918 are replacing the 67+stock this evening, will be interesting how thats faring timing wise.

 

[PHILIPE]

Today was much more overcrowding than the speed. On the way up it wasnt too bad.
312+918 are replacing the 67+stock this evening, will be interesting how thats faring timing wise.

Right Time Hereford

 

[_toommm_]

There are also timekeeping issues when a 75mph (downhill, with a tailwind) 153 is put on a 100mph timed Carmarthen-Manchester service.

That hasn't stopped it from happening on several occasions in the last few months!

In one of the lockdowns, there was a booked 150+153+153 combo, think it was the 14:30 Manchester to Swansea or Carmarthen.

 

[sd0733]

In one of the lockdowns, there was a booked 150+153+153 combo, think it was the 14:30 Manchester to Swansea or Carmarthen.

There still is, on a Sunday, but its now gained a 153 so is booked 150+153+153+153.

 

[PHILIPE]

In one of the lockdowns, there was a booked 150+153+153 combo, think it was the 14:30 Manchester to Swansea or Carmarthen.

If it was a Sunday the 1430 is booked 150 + 153 + 153 + 153 and is throughout irrespective of COVID. A 153 comes off at Cardiff and the other 153s split from the 150 at Whitland and go to Pembroke Dock, the 150 going to Milford Haven.

 

[_toommm_]

If it was a Sunday the 1430 is booked 150 + 153 + 153 + 153 and is throughout irrespective of COVID. A 153 comes off at Cardiff and the other 153s split from the 150 at Whitland and go to Pembroke Dock, the 150 going to Milford Haven.

From my records, I saw them at Piccadilly on Fridays as 150+153+153 in April 2020, so the first lockdown. Comparing that with my commuting at the time, it seems it was the 14:30 in the week that was booked that combo.

 

[JakeMurphy]

Today was much more overcrowding than the speed. On the way up it wasnt too bad.
312+918 are replacing the 67+stock this evening, will be interesting how thats faring timing wise.

Fair enough and they seem to be doing pretty well at the moment

 

[sd0733]

From my records, I saw them at Piccadilly on Fridays as 150+153+153 in April 2020, so the first lockdown. Comparing that with my commuting at the time, it seems it was the 14:30 in the week that was booked that combo.

It was a Sunday timetable and diagrams for several weeks 7 days a week during early stages of lockdown.

 

[JakeMurphy]

Where are we at with the 150 refurbishment at the moment? 256 is out now as of yesterday on Heart of Wales so I’d presume there’s another one being done and one awaiting it next.

 

[sw1ller]

Fancy forgetting that

They can and have recently worked to Bidston but only in an emergency if no Class 150 available. A pair worked last of the day and first next morning when the opportunity arose to swap out. They have frequently been to Bidston recently on Route Learning Specials to Birkenhead North Depot.

That can’t be put on passenger service on the Borderlands line due to union issues. They do try to put them there and a few drivers may take them but they shouldn’t be there at all.

 

[wobman]

That can’t be put on passenger service on the Borderlands line due to union issues. They do try to put them there and a few drivers may take them but they shouldn’t be there at all.

It's not union issues, it's the timings can't be kept as 153's have slow doors and slow brake release. That over 15 stops in each direction it loses a lot of time. Just look historically when 153's were the traction of choice on the line and how many shotton turnbacks there was due to consistent late running on their.

 

[sw1ller]

It's not union issues, it's the timings can't be kept as 153's have slow doors and slow brake release. That over 15 stops in each direction it loses a lot of time. Just look historically when 153's were the traction of choice on the line and how many shotton turnbacks there was due to consistent late running on their.

That’s just why they can’t be put on there regularly. Shotton turn backs are now banned too. I have a letter in my bag stating that I’m not to take a 153 onto the borderlands.

 

[wobman]

That’s just why they can’t be put on there regularly. Shotton turn backs are now banned too. I have a letter in my bag stating that I’m not to take a 153 onto the borderlands.

I know unless it's an emergency, can't be used to regain time. I'm not a 153 fan either, much prefer a 150

 

[Bikeman78]

That’s just why they can’t be put on there regularly. Shotton turn backs are now banned too. I have a letter in my bag stating that I’m not to take a 153 onto the borderlands.

Most trains turn round at Wrexham General now which probably saves around five minutes per trip. I don't understand the problem with the Bidston line. 153s often run from Cardiff to Manchester and lose 15 minutes in the process. The alternative is cancel the train and everyone is 60 minutes late.

 

[wobman]

Most trains turn round at Wrexham General now which probably saves around five minutes per trip. I don't understand the problem with the Bidston line. 153s often run from Cardiff to Manchester and lose 15 minutes in the process. The alternative is cancel the train and everyone is 60 minutes late.

Travel on the Bidston line and see the amount of stops plus the gradients, it causes a 153 to lose so much time that then impacts the following services throughout the day.

 

[Eccles1983]

Most trains turn round at Wrexham General now which probably saves around five minutes per trip. I don't understand the problem with the Bidston line. 153s often run from Cardiff to Manchester and lose 15 minutes in the process. The alternative is cancel the train and everyone is 60 minutes late.

That five minutes didnt exist before. It was make believe time that only existing in the minds of diagramming. Trains now actually run close to time now....

It's the 1m in between stops that is the killer. Comparing it to cardiff/manchester isn't really worthwhile. You can lose easily 5 minutes with 153's. Which is compounded when getting to bidston and waiting outside for merseyrail to clear (on time)

 

[Caaardiff]

175111 is due out on Friday after refurbishment. That leaves 5 units to do, so hopefully all done by the end of the year/early Jan.

 

[Wyrleybart]

That’s just why they can’t be put on there regularly. Shotton turn backs are now banned too. I have a letter in my bag stating that I’m not to take a 153 onto the borderlands.

As a matter of interest, are you able to disclose who gave you the letter ? is it TfW ops or maybe union ?

 

[sd0733]

Where are we at with the 150 refurbishment at the moment? 256 is out now as of yesterday on Heart of Wales so I’d presume there’s another one being done and one awaiting it next.

The only 3 unrefurbished ones not allocated are 150245/250/255 so looks to be at least one of them.

There is a 5T35 to Landore and 5T09 return today, presumably 153935 heading for refurb and 153909 heading back.

 

[Cardiff123]

175111 is due out on Friday after refurbishment. That leaves 5 units to do, so hopefully all done by the end of the year/early Jan.

And then most, if not all 175s will be withdrawn and replaced by 197s in the second half of next year. I guess there have been plenty of other examples in the UK of trains being refurbed only to be withdrawn less than a year later though.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

And then most, if not all 175s will be withdrawn and replaced by 197s in the second half of next year.

I can’t help feeling that’s slightly optimistic.

 

[Anonymous10]

And then most, if not all 175s will be withdrawn and replaced by 197s in the second half of next year. I guess there have been plenty of other examples in the UK of trains being refurbed only to be withdrawn less than a year later though.

plans are ever changing unless and until a new operator / the owners make a announcement we might yet see them retained

 

[berneyarms]

And then most, if not all 175s will be withdrawn and replaced by 197s in the second half of next year. I guess there have been plenty of other examples in the UK of trains being refurbed only to be withdrawn less than a year later though.

I suspect that next year, some of them could replace the Class 170s in South Wales, releasing them to East Midlands Railway.

In the medium to long term who knows!

 

[Caaardiff]

I suspect that next year, some of them could replace the Class 170s in South Wales, releasing them to East Midlands Railway.

In the medium to long term who knows!

That could work. No doubt the 170s are in higher demand elsewhere than the 175s. The Flirts are currently being tested but I'm not sure if they are tri-modes for the Rhymney or Bi-modes for maesteg/Ebbw which will arrive first and when they will be in service.

The only problem with the 175s is needing up to 8/9 units based in Canton with the maintenance still needing to be done in Chester. That would mean over 16/17 units being based in the south out of a fleet of just 27. Its also reliant on 197 deliveries, as the Flirts could well be in service by the time a sufficient number of 197s are delivered to release 175.
If I was TfW I would be holding ok to the 170s until the Flirts arrive and using spare 175s to cover Crewe-Chester and West wales to free up some 150s and 153s.

I can also see the 175s staying slightly longer than everyone thinks.

 

[Watershed]

The only problem with the 175s is needing up to 8/9 units based in Canton with the maintenance still needing to be done in Chester. That would mean over 16/17 units being based in the south out of a fleet of just 27. Its also reliant on 197 deliveries, as the Flirts could well be in service by the time a sufficient number of 197s are delivered to release 175.

There's fleets with much 'worse' examples than that. Yes, it can be a pain, particularly if the fleet in question isn't very reliable. But it's absolutely manageable.