Greater Anglia Bombardier Aventras (Class 720): Technical discussion and introduction

[TheHSRailFan]

Was with a friend out in the Cheshunt area yesterday (Thursday) on the WAML, They were obviously doing a test with 720 536 from Liverpool Street to Cambridge. Not sure what GAs plans are, if they are introducing them first fully on the GEML and branch lines or start introducing them on the WAML at the same as the GEML introduction.

 

[Shunter_69]

Supposed to be GE first until they’ve got enough in service to get rid of the non-compliant 321’s

 

[Bikeman78]

Supposed to be GE first until they’ve got enough in service to get rid of the non-compliant 321’s

I'd assume that several more 720s will appear on the GEML on September 13th when the service increases.

 

[Shunter_69]

The plan is for either 2 x 321’s (560 seats) or 1 x 5 car 720 (540 seats) from 13/9.

Not enough stock at present to run anything longer.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

From Wednesday this week they will be in service on the West Anglia, not sure what they'll be doing but that's the plan anyway, probably 5 cars on Hertford East's I'd bet.

 

[Roger B]

I travelled on my first 720 yesterday. They do look the part from the outside - the paint-job seems to suit them very well to my eye - BUT I can't see the 2+3 seating drawing much praise. The seats are quite narrow - can three average people sit side by side wearing winter clothing without being rammed together - never mind people above average size, who comprise an ever larger proportion of the travelling public? And the aisle is barely wide enough to walk through - and I'm only average build - and wasn't wearing winter clothing nor carrying bags - nor with a pushchair, etc.

I then took an aged 317 from Liverpool St to Cambridge - and I can't see 720s being seen as improvements over the 317s. But it wasn't so long ago I had 379s on the LST to CBG run - and they were really quite pleasant. I can't see 720s being greeted at all enthusiastically on the West Anglia - they're definitely a huge step down from the 379s - cf the comments on the 745 thread about Cambridge commuters.

I'm aware of the history of bids to DfT being all about maximising number of seats, but with working pattern changes accelerated by the Covid pandemic, I hope that a 720 sub-class with 2+2 seating is created of longer distance services. But probably little chance of actually happening.

 

[Energy]

never mind people above average size, who comprise an ever larger proportion of the travelling public?

50% of the population are above average size. I agree with the 3+2 seating, I believe its because the DfT only count the standing capacity if it is less than 20 mins between stations even if people would rather stand than use the middle seat.

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm aware of the history of bids to DfT being all about maximising number of seats, but with working pattern changes accelerated by the Covid pandemic, I hope that a 720 sub-class with 2+2 seating is created of longer distance services. But probably little chance of actually happening.

Well, Shapp's white paper does go some way to admitting that the current rolling stock specification produces uncomfortable trains which have been built for capacity, not comfort, and that where relevant rolling stock would be adapted to redress this. So it's not inconceivable. After all it happened with some 317s back in WAGN days. But that bygone era of the early days of privatisation where some good things did happen seems like another world now.

 

[samuelmorris]

The announcement that 720s were having 3+2 seating was a disappointment but back then, I knew it would be necessary. You just wouldn't keep pace with demand with 2+2 without having hundreds of people standing on peak time services, the new fleet needed to allow for growth, not just the status quo.

Now of course the outlook is rather different. Whether the units get converted to 2+2 at a later date time will tell. If any do, I suspect it may end up being a sub-fleet just having seating removed, a la the 357/3s. I doubt they'll make 'express' versions of the units with armrests and wider seats etc. because that's what the 745s are for. If they're growing the 745 fleet on the GEML by moving the Stansted units across permanently, then there's even less reason to do it.

 

[Goldfish62]

The announcement that 720s were having 3+2 seating was a disappointment but back then, I knew it would be necessary. You just wouldn't keep pace with demand with 2+2 without having hundreds of people standing on peak time services, the new fleet needed to allow for growth, not just the status quo.

Now of course the outlook is rather different. Whether the units get converted to 2+2 at a later date time will tell. If any do, I suspect it may end up being a sub-fleet just having seating removed, a la the 357/3s. I doubt they'll make 'express' versions of the units with armrests and wider seats etc. because that's what the 745s are for. If they're growing the 745 fleet on the GEML by moving the Stansted units across permanently, then there's even less reason to do it.

I agree that if anything happens it would be a subclass and not the whole fleet.

The 357/3s were adapted for extra standing capacity, not additional comfort. You're not going to get much in the way of additional comfort without a spacer between seats. I assume that the seats are the same width as those on the FLIRTs (people assume that the seats on the 2+2 444s are wider than the 2+3 seats on the 450s, but they're the same width, for example) so all it would require for 2+2 is a seat spacer between seats to make a fair difference to comfort.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree that if anything happens it would be a subclass and not the whole fleet.

The 357/3s were adapted for extra standing capacity, not additional comfort. You're not going to get much in the way of additional comfort without a spacer between seats. I assume that the seats are the same width as those on the FLIRTs (people assume that the seats on the 2+2 444s are wider than the 2+3 seats on the 450s, but they're the same width, for example) so all it would require for 2+2 is a seat spacer between seats to make a fair difference to comfort.

A cost-saving option would be simply to remove the third seat (assuming the mounting doesn't extend under it) leaving narrow 2+2 as found on e.g. the 700s. Then you could run more single units, because if it got busy you could have a larger standing load.

This is what Merseyrail did pre-refurb.

 

[samuelmorris]

I agree that if anything happens it would be a subclass and not the whole fleet.

The 357/3s were adapted for extra standing capacity, not additional comfort. You're not going to get much in the way of additional comfort without a spacer between seats. I assume that the seats are the same width as those on the FLIRTs (people assume that the seats on the 2+2 444s are wider than the 2+3 seats on the 450s, but they're the same width, for example) so all it would require for 2+2 is a seat spacer between seats to make a fair difference to comfort.

Yes exactly, that's what I was suggesting - I could only see it happening in the event that 2+3 seating still isn't enough to address the capacity requirements, not because I expect them to look at offering increased comfort.

 

[43096]

A cost-saving option would be simply to remove the third seat (assuming the mounting doesn't extend under it) leaving narrow 2+2 as found on e.g. the 700s. Then you could run more single units, because if it got busy you could have a larger standing load.

It gets messy then as you have to look at vehicle dynamics with different loading.

One of the reasons the 458/5 conversions got spacers between the seats was to do with the loading and weight distribution. Ian Walmsley also made the point that without the spacers you have people spilling into the standing space as there isn’t enough elbow room.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes exactly, that's what I was suggesting - I could only see it happening in the event that 2+3 seating still isn't enough to address the capacity requirements, not because I expect them to look at offering increased comfort.

Ah right. Got it!

 

[James James]

50% of the population are above average size. I agree with the 3+2 seating, I believe its because the DfT only count the standing capacity if it is less than 20 mins between stations even if people would rather stand than use the middle seat.

No they're not. 50% of the population are actually above the median size. Although in this case it comes out to almost the same result. It certainly is true that the distribution of human sizes is bimodal, and with an appropriate arrangement of humans even 3+2 can work reasonably well - good luck actually making such arrangements in practice though.

 

[Energy]

No they're not. 50% of the population are actually above the median size. Although in this case it comes out to almost the same result. It certainly is true that the distribution of human sizes is bimodal, and with an appropriate arrangement of humans even 3+2 can work reasonably well - good luck actually making such arrangements in practice though.

Pedantically speaking median is an average, though most people assume average is mean. Mean is still roughly 50%.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

Thinking of the WA side of things, 3+2 as is on the 720's will be awful for Hertford East services, what they require is 345/710 style interiors, under an hour's journey time and full and standing in the peaks with stations every 2 minutes. Maybe at some point it would be sensible for TfL to take them over with an additional 710 order. Same with the Meridian Water shuttles and to some extent the Stratford/Stortford services.
Cambridges are probably the only WA service comparable to most GE Colchester/Clacton/Ipswich/Southend/Braintree services, which is the bulk of GA's work and what the 720's were ordered for. I suppose this is the trouble with ordering a big blanket fleet, great for streamlining, diagramming and all the rest of it, but a one size fits all is bound not to fit a certain portion.

 

[samuelmorris]

Thinking of the WA side of things, 3+2 as is on the 720's will be awful for Hertford East services, what they require is 345/710 style interiors, under an hour's journey time and full and standing in the peaks with stations every 2 minutes. Maybe at some point it would be sensible for TfL to take them over with an additional 710 order. Same with the Meridian Water shuttles and to some extent the Stratford/Stortford services.
Cambridges are probably the only WA service comparable to most GE Colchester/Clacton/Ipswich/Southend/Braintree services, which is the bulk of GA's work and what the 720's were ordered for. I suppose this is the trouble with ordering a big blanket fleet, great for streamlining, diagramming and all the rest of it, but a one size fits all is bound not to fit a certain portion.

What really needed to happen was Hertford East go to TfL but I understand that was requested but disallowed.

 

[Ianno87]

And the aisle is barely wide enough to walk through - and I'm only average build - and wasn't wearing winter clothing nor carrying bags - nor with a pushchair, etc.

Very few trains are walk through with a pushchair - only 376s, 387s, 700s, 710s really.

I then took an aged 317 from Liverpool St to Cambridge - and I can't see 720s being seen as improvements over the 317s.

I think they very much will be. To most travellers, 317s are quite visibly ancient.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

I wouldn't want to do Hertford to Liverpool Street in a 710, if that was the option, I'd take the 710 as far as Broxbourne and change on to a 720 or 379 for the run up to London, as would numerous others.

 

[Mikey C]

A cost-saving option would be simply to remove the third seat (assuming the mounting doesn't extend under it) leaving narrow 2+2 as found on e.g. the 700s. Then you could run more single units, because if it got busy you could have a larger standing load.

This is what Merseyrail did pre-refurb.

Unless a service really needs loads of standing space, narrow 2+2 is pretty horrible. At least with 3+2, people can space out before having to sit next to someone. Or someone really fat can just sprawl over 1 1/2 seats, leaving the 3rd one free!

On Networkers, the middle seat always seem to be well used. Maybe Southeastern Passengers are more sociable

 

[KD13]

Class 720 Update
Two Class 720s will enter service on the West from Wednesday 25th August. The two units will run as two separate five car units on the diagrams shown below,
Monday to Friday
Unit Diagram IL301 (x 1 five car)
➢ 0526 ECS Move Ilford CS to Liverpool Street (arrives 0551)
➢ 0558 Liverpool Street to Cambridge (Tottenham Hale, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Roydon, Harlow Town, Harlow Mill,
Sawbridgeworth, Bishops Stortford, Stansted Mountfitchet, Elsenham, Newport, Audley End, Great Chesterford,
Whittlesford Parkway, Shelford)
➢ 0747 Cambridge to Liverpool Street (Whittlesford Parkway, Audley End, Bishops Stortford, Tottenham Hale)
➢ 0906 ECS Move Liverpool Street to Orient Way (arrives 0927)
➢ 1555 ECS Move Orient Way to Liverpool Street (arrives 1623)
➢ 1643 Liverpool Street to Cambridge (Tottenham Hale, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Roydon, Harlow Town, Harlow Mill,
Sawbridgeworth, Bishops Stortford, Stansted Mountfitchet, Elsenham, Newport, Audley End, Great Chesterford,
Whittlesford Parkway, Shelford)
➢ 1820 Cambridge to Liverpool Street (Shelford, Whittlesford Parkway, Great Chesterford, Audley End, Newport,
Elsenham, Stansted Mountfitchet, Bishops Stortford, Sawbridgeworth, Harlow Mill, Harlow Town, Roydon, Broxbourne,
Cheshunt, Tottenham Hale).
➢ 1958 Liverpool Street to Cambridge (Tottenham Hale, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Harlow Town, Sawbridgeworth, Bishops
Stortford, Audley End, Whittlesford Parkway).
➢ 2115 ECS Move Cambridge to Cambridge CA147 (arrives 2118)
➢ 2124 ECS Move Cambridge CA147 to Cambridge (arrives 2127)
➢ 2129 Cambridge to Cambridge North
➢ 2153 Cambridge North to Liverpool Street (Cambridge, Whittlesford Parkway, Audley End, Bishops Stortford, Harlow
Town, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Tottenham Hale).
➢ 2328 Liverpool Street to Cambridge (Tottenham Hale, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Roydon, Harlow Town, Harlow Mill,
Sawbridgeworth, Bishops Stortford, Stansted Mountfitchet, Elsenham, Newport, Audley End, Great Chesterford,
Whittlesford Parkway, Shelford)
➢ 0053 ECS Move Cambridge to Cambridge Sidings North (arrives 0101)
Unit Diagram IL306 (x 1 five car)
➢ 0511 ECS Move Cambridge CS to Cambridge (arrives 0519)
➢ 0531 Cambridge to Stratford (Shelford, Whittlesford Parkway, Audley End, Bishops Stortford, Sawbridgeworth, Harlow
Mill, Harlow Town, Broxbourne, Tottenham Hale)
➢ 0649 Stratford to Broxbourne (Lea Bridge, Tottenham Hale, Ponders End, Brimsdown, Cheshunt).
➢ 0730 Broxbourne to Liverpool Street (Waltham Cross, Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale,
Hackney Downs).
➢ 0812 Liverpool Street to Hertford East (Hackney Downs, Tottenham Hale, Ponders End, Brimsdown, Enfield Lock,
Waltham Cross, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Rye House, St Margarets, Ware).
➢ 0909 Hertford East to Liverpool Street (Ware, St Margarets, Rye House, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Waltham Cross,
Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale, Hackney Downs)
➢ 1012 Liverpool Street to Hertford East (Hackney Downs, Tottenham Hale, Ponders End, Brimsdown, Enfield Lock,
Waltham Cross, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Rye House, St Margarets, Ware).
➢ 1109 Hertford East to Liverpool Street (Ware, St Margarets, Rye House, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Waltham Cross,
Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale, Hackney Downs)
➢ 1212 Liverpool Street to Hertford East (Hackney Downs, Tottenham Hale, Ponders End, Brimsdown, Enfield Lock,
Waltham Cross, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Rye House, St Margarets, Ware).
➢ 1309 Hertford East to Liverpool Street (Ware, St Margarets, Rye House, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Waltham Cross,
Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale, Hackney Downs)
➢ 1412 Liverpool Street to Hertford East (Hackney Downs, Tottenham Hale, Ponders End, Brimsdown, Enfield Lock,
Waltham Cross, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Rye House, St Margarets, Ware).
➢ 1509 Hertford East to Liverpool Street (Ware, St Margarets, Rye House, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Waltham Cross,
Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale, Hackney Downs).
➢ 1612 Liverpool Street to Hertford East (Hackney Downs, Tottenham Hale, Ponders End, Brimsdown, Enfield Lock,
Waltham Cross, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Rye House, St Margarets, Ware).
1 23/08/2021

Class 720 Update
➢ 1709 Hertford East to Liverpool Street (Ware, St Margarets, Rye House, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Waltham Cross, Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale, Hackney Downs).
➢ 1811 Liverpool Street to Hertford East (Hackney Downs, Seven Sisters, Edmonton Green, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Rye House, St Margarets, Ware).
➢ 1909 Hertford East to Liverpool Street (Ware, St Margarets, Rye House, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Waltham Cross, Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale, Hackney Downs).
➢ 2012 Liverpool Street to Hertford East (Hackney Downs, Tottenham Hale, Ponders End, Brimsdown, Enfield Lock, Waltham Cross, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Rye House, St Margarets, Ware).
➢ 2109 Hertford East to Liverpool Street (Ware, St Margarets, Rye House, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Waltham Cross, Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale, Hackney Downs).
➢ 2212 Liverpool Street to Hertford East (Hackney Downs, Tottenham Hale, Ponders End, Brimsdown, Enfield Lock, Waltham Cross, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Rye House, St Margarets, Ware).
➢ 2309 Hertford East to Liverpool Street (Ware, St Margarets, Rye House, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Waltham Cross, Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale, Hackney Downs).
➢ 0012 ECS Move Liverpool Street to Ilford EMUD (arrive 0035)

 

[theblackwatch]

Class 720 Update
Two Class 720s will enter service on the West from Wednesday 25th August. The two units will run as two separate five car units on the diagrams shown below,
Monday to Friday
Unit Diagram IL301 (x 1 five car)
➢ 0526 ECS Move Ilford CS to Liverpool Street (arrives 0551)
➢ 0558 Liverpool Street to Cambridge (Tottenham Hale, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Roydon, Harlow Town, Harlow Mill,
Sawbridgeworth, Bishops Stortford, Stansted Mountfitchet, Elsenham, Newport, Audley End, Great Chesterford,
Whittlesford Parkway, Shelford)
➢ 0747 Cambridge to Liverpool Street (Whittlesford Parkway, Audley End, Bishops Stortford, Tottenham Hale)
➢ 0906 ECS Move Liverpool Street to Orient Way (arrives 0927)
➢ 1555 ECS Move Orient Way to Liverpool Street (arrives 1623)
➢ 1643 Liverpool Street to Cambridge (Tottenham Hale, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Roydon, Harlow Town, Harlow Mill,
Sawbridgeworth, Bishops Stortford, Stansted Mountfitchet, Elsenham, Newport, Audley End, Great Chesterford,
Whittlesford Parkway, Shelford)
➢ 1820 Cambridge to Liverpool Street (Shelford, Whittlesford Parkway, Great Chesterford, Audley End, Newport,
Elsenham, Stansted Mountfitchet, Bishops Stortford, Sawbridgeworth, Harlow Mill, Harlow Town, Roydon, Broxbourne,
Cheshunt, Tottenham Hale).
➢ 1958 Liverpool Street to Cambridge (Tottenham Hale, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Harlow Town, Sawbridgeworth, Bishops
Stortford, Audley End, Whittlesford Parkway).
➢ 2115 ECS Move Cambridge to Cambridge CA147 (arrives 2118)
➢ 2124 ECS Move Cambridge CA147 to Cambridge (arrives 2127)
➢ 2129 Cambridge to Cambridge North
➢ 2153 Cambridge North to Liverpool Street (Cambridge, Whittlesford Parkway, Audley End, Bishops Stortford, Harlow
Town, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Tottenham Hale).
➢ 2328 Liverpool Street to Cambridge (Tottenham Hale, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Roydon, Harlow Town, Harlow Mill,
Sawbridgeworth, Bishops Stortford, Stansted Mountfitchet, Elsenham, Newport, Audley End, Great Chesterford,
Whittlesford Parkway, Shelford)
➢ 0053 ECS Move Cambridge to Cambridge Sidings North (arrives 0101)
Unit Diagram IL306 (x 1 five car)
➢ 0511 ECS Move Cambridge CS to Cambridge (arrives 0519)
➢ 0531 Cambridge to Stratford (Shelford, Whittlesford Parkway, Audley End, Bishops Stortford, Sawbridgeworth, Harlow
Mill, Harlow Town, Broxbourne, Tottenham Hale)
➢ 0649 Stratford to Broxbourne (Lea Bridge, Tottenham Hale, Ponders End, Brimsdown, Cheshunt).
➢ 0730 Broxbourne to Liverpool Street (Waltham Cross, Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale,
Hackney Downs).
➢ 0812 Liverpool Street to Hertford East (Hackney Downs, Tottenham Hale, Ponders End, Brimsdown, Enfield Lock,
Waltham Cross, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Rye House, St Margarets, Ware).
➢ 0909 Hertford East to Liverpool Street (Ware, St Margarets, Rye House, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Waltham Cross,
Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale, Hackney Downs)
➢ 1012 Liverpool Street to Hertford East (Hackney Downs, Tottenham Hale, Ponders End, Brimsdown, Enfield Lock,
Waltham Cross, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Rye House, St Margarets, Ware).
➢ 1109 Hertford East to Liverpool Street (Ware, St Margarets, Rye House, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Waltham Cross,
Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale, Hackney Downs)
➢ 1212 Liverpool Street to Hertford East (Hackney Downs, Tottenham Hale, Ponders End, Brimsdown, Enfield Lock,
Waltham Cross, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Rye House, St Margarets, Ware).
➢ 1309 Hertford East to Liverpool Street (Ware, St Margarets, Rye House, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Waltham Cross,
Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale, Hackney Downs)
➢ 1412 Liverpool Street to Hertford East (Hackney Downs, Tottenham Hale, Ponders End, Brimsdown, Enfield Lock,
Waltham Cross, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Rye House, St Margarets, Ware).
➢ 1509 Hertford East to Liverpool Street (Ware, St Margarets, Rye House, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Waltham Cross,
Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale, Hackney Downs).
➢ 1612 Liverpool Street to Hertford East (Hackney Downs, Tottenham Hale, Ponders End, Brimsdown, Enfield Lock,
Waltham Cross, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Rye House, St Margarets, Ware).
1 23/08/2021

Class 720 Update
➢ 1709 Hertford East to Liverpool Street (Ware, St Margarets, Rye House, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Waltham Cross, Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale, Hackney Downs).
➢ 1811 Liverpool Street to Hertford East (Hackney Downs, Seven Sisters, Edmonton Green, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Rye House, St Margarets, Ware).
➢ 1909 Hertford East to Liverpool Street (Ware, St Margarets, Rye House, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Waltham Cross, Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale, Hackney Downs).
➢ 2012 Liverpool Street to Hertford East (Hackney Downs, Tottenham Hale, Ponders End, Brimsdown, Enfield Lock, Waltham Cross, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Rye House, St Margarets, Ware).
➢ 2109 Hertford East to Liverpool Street (Ware, St Margarets, Rye House, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Waltham Cross, Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale, Hackney Downs).
➢ 2212 Liverpool Street to Hertford East (Hackney Downs, Tottenham Hale, Ponders End, Brimsdown, Enfield Lock, Waltham Cross, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Rye House, St Margarets, Ware).
➢ 2309 Hertford East to Liverpool Street (Ware, St Margarets, Rye House, Broxbourne, Cheshunt, Waltham Cross, Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Tottenham Hale, Hackney Downs).
➢ 0012 ECS Move Liverpool Street to Ilford EMUD (arrive 0035)

Does anyone know if this has happened and which units are being used on the west side today please?

 

[dk1]

Does anyone know if this has happened and which units are being used on the west side today please?

556 was on the first Cambridge-Stratford.

 

[306024]

547 was reported elsewhere as being on the other diagram.

 

[theblackwatch]

Great, many thanks folks

 

[55002]

Just seen 556 on 1109 Hertford to Liverpool St

 

[47421]

I wouldn't want to do Hertford to Liverpool Street in a 710, if that was the option, I'd take the 710 as far as Broxbourne and change on to a 720 or 379 for the run up to London, as would numerous others.

And suffer a longer journey that the already painfully slow Hertford East service which are not overtaken (other than the odd peak service that runs via Seven Sisters). HE is generally a rubbish serivice, slow and infrequent and with very tired 317s (although 379s now also used as been displaced on StanExp by Stadlers). On the other hand, it is fully oysterised and fares are pretty good. Much cheaper than eg Harlow.

720s will be a mixed blessing - loads of infrastructure work needed at Hert East, Ware and St Margarets before 10 cars can run there, and no visibility on when it will be done. Meantime peak services will be very sweaty with 5 cars only.

 

[dk1]

720s will be a mixed blessing - loads of infrastructure work needed at Hert East, Ware and St Margarets before 10 cars can run there, and no visibility on when it will be done. Meantime peak services will be very sweaty with 5 cars only.

The infrastructure work is all in hand & was well documented in one of the most recent internal briefs on new train introduction.

 

[55002]

And suffer a longer journey that the already painfully slow Hertford East service which are not overtaken (other than the odd peak service that runs via Seven Sisters). HE is generally a rubbish serivice, slow and infrequent and with very tired 317s (although 379s now also used as been displaced on StanExp by Stadlers). On the other hand, it is fully oysterised and fares are pretty good. Much cheaper than eg Harlow.

720s will be a mixed blessing - loads of infrastructure work needed at Hert East, Ware and St Margarets before 10 cars can run there, and no visibility on when it will be done. Meantime peak services will be very sweaty with 5 cars only.

The Hertford east service used to be great. In peak non stop from broxbourne to Tottenham Hale and Liverpool St. off peak get a Cambridge train to Broxbourne and change to the branch train that had come via seven sisters. They then changed it to the current garbage all stations around 10-12 years ago. Was chaos when they first introduced in the peak with overcrowding then they amended peak to go semi fast via Edmonton