Bridge strike at Plymouth (30/08)

[Tallguy]

Bank holiday really scuppered up yesterday many firms just not picking up the phone. They had managed to arrange enough buses for today including Tiverton parkway for speed, but unfortunately last night there was no buses or driver's available.

Bus companies can't keep fleets on standby incase of some idiot in a lorry. Railway can't magic buses out of thin air. But abandoning people was the failure. Again communication, not a new one!

Bridge looks to be substantially damaged and I would say we are looking at at least a week.

The coach industry has been decimated by the pandemic. I know the owner of Worths coaches in Enstone, Oxfordshire and the petrol station they run has kept the company alive for the last 18 months, that and most of the drivers on furlough. With it being a BH many coach firms will have been shut and the local bus firms may already be short of drivers and have to run their public services before they do additional charter work. Then you have the issue of restricted driver hours and compulsory rest days…….

I have to wonder if the lorry driver was a contractor rather than a Tesco employee who wasn’t familiar with the area etc.

 

[richw]

National Rail Enquiries say single line working has been implemented

Last night there was mention of damage to the up line but down needed a day light inspection to determine safety

 

[GC class B1]

The railway is so vulnerable and there is no resilience. Regardless of fault, it makes me feel that road transport is more reliable.

There are three points to consider in taking a balanced view of resilience

1. This was caused by road transport along with the Whittlesey crossing incident recently
2. If we only had road transport not only would emissions increase but the roads would be gridlocked and road transport would be completely non resilient.
3. Government lack of investment and public dislike of subsidising the railways has resulted in a much less resilient railway for example the closure of alternative routes to cut cost and appease the public especially those who had cars and did not use the railway.

 

[RPI]

Ivybridge has poor road access compared to Totnes, there is also no staff or any station building at Ivybridge. There’s also through lines at Totnes meaning the line isn’t blocked by a terminating train.

Ivybridge has probably better road access and is right by the A38, however, as you say, is unstaffed. I would have thought the on call manager would have been out to Totnes at some point.

 

[Robertj21a]

There are three points to consider in taking a balanced view of resilience

1. This was caused by road transport along with the Whittlesey crossing incident recently
2. If we only had road transport not only would emissions increase but the roads would be gridlocked and road transport would be completely non resilient.
3. Government lack of investment and public dislike of subsidising the railways has resulted in a much less resilient railway for example the closure of alternative routes to cut cost and appease the public especially those who had cars and did not use the railway.

I doubt that most, or even many, roads would be gridlocked just because there were no trains - some key arteries certainly, but not widespread.

 

[GC class B1]

I doubt that most, or even many, roads would be gridlocked just because there were no trains - some key arteries certainly, but not widespread.

If you consider the commuters into major cities like London and Birmingham even with less office workers as a result of the pandemic they would definitely be gridlocked without rail. London would stop without the underground.

Add to this the effect of all the freight currently on the railways that would add thousands of lorries to trunk roads, motorways and towns and road journeys times would extend considerably with the consequent increase in emissions and adverse effect on commerce. The railways are good value.

 

[Towers]

Worth noting that there is currently a major rail replacement operation taking place in the Bristol area, due to the T. Meads blockade. No doubt that is eating up a sizeable chunk of the spare bus/coach capacity in the S West.

 

[irish_rail]

Plymouth has plenty of Taxis, it’s a big place. there should be contingency plans in place to deal with this sort of event inc having staffing teams to deal with it. So what do the people stranded at Totnes do? Stand there all night? I’d be taking a taxi to the nearest station with trains running and sending the TOC the bill.

Plymouth, does NOT have plenty of taxis. Thanks to a wonderful thing called Brexit the city lost its Romanian taxi driver population more or less overnight. It is so bad now that taxi companies will no longer take bookings in the city on Fridays and Saturdays. A severe shortage. And as someone else pointed out, a severe shortage of bus drivers at present, less brexit related, more pi*s poor wage related.

 

[deltic]

If you consider the commuters into major cities like London and Birmingham even with less office workers as a result of the pandemic they would definitely be gridlocked without rail. London would stop without the underground.

Add to this the effect of all the freight currently on the railways that would add thousands of lorries to trunk roads, motorways and towns and road journeys times would extend considerably with the consequent increase in emissions and adverse effect on commerce. The railways are good value.

I think the present pandemic has sadly illustrated that the country can survive without a rail network and in recent years London hasnt stopped when there has been rail or tube strikes

 

[dk1]

I think the present pandemic has sadly illustrated that the country can survive without a rail network and in recent years London hasnt stopped when there has been rail or tube strikes

It hasn’t stopped but it’s been horrendous when it does in London & costs the local economy £millions. The pandemic has proved we can also do without theatre, pubs, restaurants, sporting events & practically everything else we do in normal life if you look at it that way.

 

[Western Sunset]

At least the Government has everything under control, by wanting to introduce larger lorries on the roads.

 

[zwk500]

The Okehampton route would be a godsend at times like this if it was ever to be reopened in full. I think it's a must.

Not just to you, but all making this point: how often does this situation occur, and is spending >£1bn on a new railway really a more effective method of mitigating it than putting a bollard in the road to enforce a 6'6" width restriction? The bridge in question is located between 2 bridges with easy clearance, one of which is over the railway that the lorry could easily have accessed by following the same road for about a mile.

I don't know the area, but it would seem to be a fairly exceptional set of circumstances that there is no or very little road transport available, and for every other time trains are disrupted a short hop in a coach is going to be far preferable than a slow trundle round the wrong side of Dartmoor and 2 reversals. Not to mention the impact on passengers of stuffing Plymouth and Exeter St. David's up with reversing trains, or further delaying trains by diverting those not stopping at Taunton via Yeovil. A brand new line just screams 'Trains are the best', rather than the measured statement 'how do we provide effective public transport at good value to those funding it'.

A width restriction, and preliminary height warnings like laser detection and a chain shield prior to the first arch would cost far, far less to install and maintain than the new line. That and increase the fine + penalty points for striking any bridge.

 

[Horizon22]

I suspect the driver saw the size of the bridge Entrance at one end and ignored the signs as he or she didn’t realise the exit was much smaller. I imagine there has been a serious amount of damage to the bridge structure. The rails and sleepers can’t be replaced/repaired until the bridge is stable. If the bridge deck has shifted that could mean a closure of a month whilst it is re-sited. Tesco will have insurance and they will cough up for the damage. Hopefully the TOC’s concerned can reclaim what they have to fork out in delay repay as well. They will certainly be able to claim for the coaches they need to lay on etc. Wonder if this payout will be as big as Gerrards Cross?

Drivers ‘assuming’ things is a major factor in bridge strikes. It’s really rather frustrating. Do they think the railway puts big signs & hi-vis in just for fun? Tesco are going to get a hefty bill!

One thing that has got me thinking this evening - with the incident happening at Mutley, what is the reason for turning back at Totnes rather than the closer Ivybridge?

Ivybridge is much smaller and a shunt back much more complicated than Totnes. The first train of the day direct from Laira started there and ran direct up to London but otherwise it wouldn’t be a great proposition.

 

[ExRes]

At least the Government has everything under control, by wanting to introduce larger lorries on the roads.

Nothing wrong with that, as long as they introduce lorry drivers with bigger/some brains

 

[deltic]

Not just to you, but all making this point: how often does this situation occur, and is spending >£1bn on a new railway really a more effective method of mitigating it than putting a bollard in the road to enforce a 6'6" width restriction? The bridge in question is located between 2 bridges with easy clearance, one of which is over the railway that the lorry could easily have accessed by following the same road for about a mile.

I don't know the area, but it would seem to be a fairly exceptional set of circumstances that there is no or very little road transport available, and for every other time trains are disrupted a short hop in a coach is going to be far preferable than a slow trundle round the wrong side of Dartmoor and 2 reversals. Not to mention the impact on passengers of stuffing Plymouth and Exeter St. David's up with reversing trains, or further delaying trains by diverting those not stopping at Taunton via Yeovil. A brand new line just screams 'Trains are the best', rather than the measured statement 'how do we provide effective public transport at good value to those funding it'.

A width restriction, and preliminary height warnings like laser detection and a chain shield prior to the first arch would cost far, far less to install and maintain than the new line. That and increase the fine + penalty points for striking any bridge.

Well said - it is notable that services (albeit limited) are up and running in less than a day

 

[Grumpy Git]

Nothing wrong with that, as long as they introduce lorry drivers with bigger/some brains

There is everything wrong with that. The largest lorries we have now are too big when you see the "tram-lines" they create, (not to mention the carnage when they are involved in pile-ups).

But I suppose we'll get the cheapest (on paper) rather than the best solution, much like "Smart Motorways", which have been proven to be not at all "smart" (and are still being built on the M6 in Staffs/Cheshire as I write).

 

[RPI]

Drivers ‘assuming’ things is a major factor in bridge strikes. It’s really rather frustrating. Do they think the railway puts big signs & hi-vis in just for fun? Tesco are going to get a hefty bill!



Ivybridge is much smaller and a shunt back much more complicated than Totnes. The first train of the day direct from Laira started there and ran direct up to London but otherwise it wouldn’t be a great proposition.

Valid point but they could shunt back at Laira or Aish.

 

[Alanko]

One careless lorry driver cuts off Plymouth and the whole of Cornwall from the rest of the rail network.

I wonder if there is a gazetteer for these single points of failure? There is a similar looking bridge here in Linlithgow that would lead to significant disruption if it was damaged. Some residents are wondering already if traffic can be better managed around our bridge.

There is a YouTube channel dedicated to an 11 foot 8 bridge in America. It is regularly struck by lorries, as captured on CCTV cameras.

From watching clips of those bridge strikes, it looks like lorry drives can get a certain 'get-there-itus'; the same impetus that makes helicopter pilots press on into bad weather. Lorry drivers appear to speed up to try and clear the bridge, even as the top of their vehicle is being peeled back.

Judging by this bridge strike in Plymouth, the driver must have been going at some speed as the cab appears to be wedged into the surface of the road. As with the proliferation of badly driven courier vans across the country, I wonder if drivers are too incentivised to get to their delivery point in time by any means necessary?

 

[AlterEgo]

I suspect the driver saw the size of the bridge Entrance at one end and ignored the signs as he or she didn’t realise the exit was much smaller. I imagine there has been a serious amount of damage to the bridge structure. The rails and sleepers can’t be replaced/repaired until the bridge is stable. If the bridge deck has shifted that could mean a closure of a month whilst it is re-sited. Tesco will have insurance and they will cough up for the damage. Hopefully the TOC’s concerned can reclaim what they have to fork out in delay repay as well. They will certainly be able to claim for the coaches they need to lay on etc. Wonder if this payout will be as big as Gerrards Cross?

TOCs will not directly "reclaim Delay Repay" but rather will receive separate compensation through Schedule 8 of the track access agreement, which in turn will be reclaimed by Network Rail through Tesco's insurance.

 

[High Dyke]

I believe there are restrictions in putting things like that in place which is unfortunate as it is such a simple solution.

Usually it's the local council that don't want additional protective measures; not from a cost point of view, more the aesthetics of the area. In the case of the bridge at Grantham. Fitting the collision beams, as shown, was about all Network Rail were allowed to do.

 

[noddy1878]

Picture on social media (screen shot attached below) suggests there was a train very close to crossing.
reported locally rails have moved a few inches and concrete sleepers have split!


Not forgetting today is a bank holiday which may impact staffing hours too.
Very slim chance of finding sufficient road vehicles to replace in the required volumes. Finding the vehicles might not be an issue but drivers are very short in the south west, and making media as a result. Stagecoach are reportedly 150 drivers short in Devon!

I was on that service. We were told about the bridge strike and we kept edging further forward until we could go no further. That’s when we got sent back to Exeter. Not fun with a two year old!

 

[northernbelle]

Valid point but they could shunt back at Laira or Aish.

One or two 'local' services have been provided by train to Ivybridge, turning back at Tavistock Junction.

It's a bit impractical to terminate longer services at Ivybridge - the platform will only take 4? coaches and it is totally unstaffed. Tiverton Parkway is the best bet for interchange from rail/RRS for passengers travelling from east of there to west of Plymouth.

 

[Horizon22]

One or two 'local' services have been provided by train to Ivybridge, turning back at Tavistock Junction.

It's a bit impractical to terminate longer services at Ivybridge - the platform will only take 4? coaches and it is totally unstaffed. Tiverton Parkway is the best bet for interchange from rail/RRS for passengers travelling from east of there to west of Plymouth.

Totnes works fine as well. Also why would you terminate at Tiverton Parkway when you can run to Exeter SD which is fully staffed with better facilities and onward connections?

 

[EbbwJunction1]

I was caught up in this at Totnes, so perhaps I can give you some information on what actually happened.

I'd taken a trip on the South Devon Railway and I walked through the station on my way into the town at about 4.30pm to have something to eat. There was a Cross Country HST in the west bound platform waiting for something, but I didn't really think very much about it. When I got onto the main road, there was a large queue at a northbound bus stop nearby, but again although it looked odd, I didn't think too much.

When I got back to the station to get the 18.53 or the 19.14 trains to South Wales (the former via Bristol Parkway, the latter direct), I found that they'd both been cancelled - and the 20.15 had also been cancelled as well. There were a few people on the platform going east, so we contacted the help point. They weren't very helpful at all, and didn't seem to understand that I wanted to go home and didn't want a night in Totnes (not that there's anything wrong with that).

I then spotted a member of the GWR staff and asked him what was happening. The chap was almost at his wits' end, as he'd been trying to contact coach firms and taxi firms with no success since around 4.00pm. There simply weren't any of the former, and all of the latter were either fully booked or simply not answering, probably because they were fully booked. He could only say that I should try the taxi firms myself as I assume he was going to continue to do. He had a big problem, though, in that if he was in the office on the phone, he couldn't be on the platforms answering questions, so he was on a loser from the start. He did have some help from some Cross Country staff, who were presumably stranded on the station, but again there wasn't much that they could do.

I rang about four taxi firms; two didn't reply, one was in Plymouth and the other was in (I think) Exeter, so couldn't help. There were taxis arriving to collect pre-booked fares, so I then decided to ask the drivers for help. One of them couldn't help as all their drivers were busy, but I was fortunate to talk to one who was supposing to pick up a fare but wasn't sure whether they'd be wanting the taxi. It turned out they didn't, so I was able to book them and get to Exeter.

The problem with taxis in Totnes is whilst there's a large board with around a dozen firms on it, my driver said that they're all small firms with few drivers, and quite a few of them had ceased operating because of Covid, so they weren't available any more. It's also not possible to hail a cab at the station if they don't have a licence to take fares off the rank - I had to make a booking by phone for my taxi whilst standing next to the car.

Anyway, I got to Exeter, where the situation looked chaotic, although I will say that there were plenty of staff there dealing with it. They'd obviously decided to turn the incoming trains around there rather than letting them go any further, which made sense. Whilst I was waiting for my train, a coach from one of the local firms arrived, but where it was going (presumably to the west) arrived, so the position seemed to be getting better. In the hour that I was at Exeter, the numbers went down quite a lot, although there were still a fair number waiting when I left at just before 8.00pm.

I can't really complain about the actions of the staff at Totnes and Exeter St Davids. They did their best, especially the poor chap at Totnes, who really couldn't do anything to help because he couldn't contact anyone to move people on. The only exception was the helpline, which was very poor - they didn't seem to understand the problem and obviously weren't local, and only wanted to pass the problem onto someone else - again at the end of a phone, and who wouldn't / couldn't answer my call.

So there we go ... your report from "the main on the spot", and I hope that this has helped you understand the situation.

 

[Horizon22]

I was caught up in this at Totnes, so perhaps I can give you some information on what actually happened.

I'd taken a trip on the South Devon Railway and I walked through the station on my way into the town at about 4.30pm to have something to eat. There was a Cross Country HST in the west bound platform waiting for something, but I didn't really think very much about it. When I got onto the main road, there was a large queue at a northbound bus stop nearby, but again although it looked odd, I didn't think too much.

When I got back to the station to get the 18.53 or the 19.14 trains to South Wales (the former via Bristol Parkway, the latter direct), I found that they'd both been cancelled - and the 20.15 had also been cancelled as well. There were a few people on the platform going east, so we contacted the help point. They weren't very helpful at all, and didn't seem to understand that I wanted to go home and didn't want a night in Totnes (not that there's anything wrong with that).

I then spotted a member of the GWR staff and asked him what was happening. The chap was almost at his wits' end, as he'd been trying to contact coach firms and taxi firms with no success since around 4.00pm. There simply weren't any of the former, and all of the latter were either fully booked or simply not answering, probably because they were fully booked. He could only say that I should try the taxi firms myself as I assume he was going to continue to do. He had a big problem, though, in that if he was in the office on the phone, he couldn't be on the platforms answering questions, so he was on a loser from the start. He did have some help from some Cross Country staff, who were presumably stranded on the station, but again there wasn't much that they could do.

I rang about four taxi firms; two didn't reply, one was in Plymouth and the other was in (I think) Exeter, so couldn't help. There were taxis arriving to collect pre-booked fares, so I then decided to ask the drivers for help. One of them couldn't help as all their drivers were busy, but I was fortunate to talk to one who was supposing to pick up a fare but wasn't sure whether they'd be wanting the taxi. It turned out they didn't, so I was able to book them and get to Exeter.

The problem with taxis in Totnes is whilst there's a large board with around a dozen firms on it, my driver said that they're all small firms with few drivers, and quite a few of them had ceased operating because of Covid, so they weren't available any more. It's also not possible to hail a cab at the station if they don't have a licence to take fares off the rank - I had to make a booking by phone for my taxi whilst standing next to the car.

Anyway, I got to Exeter, where the situation looked chaotic, although I will say that there were plenty of staff there dealing with it. They'd obviously decided to turn the incoming trains around there rather than letting them go any further, which made sense. Whilst I was waiting for my train, a coach from one of the local firms arrived, but where it was going (presumably to the west) arrived, so the position seemed to be getting better. In the hour that I was at Exeter, the numbers went down quite a lot, although there were still a fair number waiting when I left at just before 8.00pm.

I can't really complain about the actions of the staff at Totnes and Exeter St Davids. They did their best, especially the poor chap at Totnes, who really couldn't do anything to help because he couldn't contact anyone to move people on. The only exception was the helpline, which was very poor - they didn't seem to understand the problem and obviously weren't local, and only wanted to pass the problem onto someone else - again at the end of a phone, and who wouldn't / couldn't answer my call.

So there we go ... your report from "the main on the spot", and I hope that this has helped you understand the situation.

Sounds as good as can be expected given the situation. From my understanding there were also train crew around stuck too trying to get to from their Exeter or Plymouth depots stuck on the “wrong” side so gave assistance as best they could and were also awaiting taxis to allow them to continue jobs / get home.

GWR and XC had been trying since 1600 to get coaches / taxis / tuk-tuks to shuttle between the stations with very little response which coupled with Covid shortages / bank holiday Monday / sheer numbers was compounding the situation.

As for the helpline, we’ve had multiple reports here about how they seem not at all clued up unfortunately. Just a glorified helpline with no help.

 

[PHILIPE]

I was caught up in this at Totnes, so perhaps I can give you some information on what actually happened.



The only exception was the helpline, which was very poor - they didn't seem to understand the problem and obviously weren't local, and only wanted to pass the problem onto someone else - again at the end of a phone, and who wouldn't / couldn't answer my call.

So there we go ... your report from "the main on the spot", and I hope that this has helped you understand the situation.

From Mumbai ?

 

[Martin_1981]

I was travelling back from Plymouth to Cranbrook, had hoped to catch the 21.25 Bristol service but checked the Plymouth departures just after 8pm and saw that all northbound trains out of Plymouth had been cancelled due to a bridge strike.

I got to Plymouth station just before 9pm and luckily I only had to wait about 10 mins before a coach going to Exeter pulled up. I heard people saying they'd been stuck at Plymouth since around 3.30pm, some were going onto London.

The coach stopped at Totnes, no one got on or off then made it's way to Newton Abbot where we were all told to get off and get the 2237 Exeter train. I missed my connection to Cranbrook from Exeter at 2306 by less than 5 mins, GWR organised a taxi to take me to Cranbrook, I arrived at 23.30 only about 10 mins behind the train. So I was quite fortunate as I wasn't going far, but the poor souls heading for London or Birmingham I dread to think what time they would have arrived.

 

[Dave S 56F]

Where are cross country trains services terminating coming southbound from birmingham via Bristol and tiverton towards Exeter then?

 

[Dai Corner]

I was caught up in this at Totnes, so perhaps I can give you some information on what actually happened.

I'd taken a trip on the South Devon Railway and I walked through the station on my way into the town at about 4.30pm to have something to eat. There was a Cross Country HST in the west bound platform waiting for something, but I didn't really think very much about it. When I got onto the main road, there was a large queue at a northbound bus stop nearby, but again although it looked odd, I didn't think too much.

When I got back to the station to get the 18.53 or the 19.14 trains to South Wales (the former via Bristol Parkway, the latter direct), I found that they'd both been cancelled - and the 20.15 had also been cancelled as well. There were a few people on the platform going east, so we contacted the help point. They weren't very helpful at all, and didn't seem to understand that I wanted to go home and didn't want a night in Totnes (not that there's anything wrong with that).

I then spotted a member of the GWR staff and asked him what was happening. The chap was almost at his wits' end, as he'd been trying to contact coach firms and taxi firms with no success since around 4.00pm. There simply weren't any of the former, and all of the latter were either fully booked or simply not answering, probably because they were fully booked. He could only say that I should try the taxi firms myself as I assume he was going to continue to do. He had a big problem, though, in that if he was in the office on the phone, he couldn't be on the platforms answering questions, so he was on a loser from the start. He did have some help from some Cross Country staff, who were presumably stranded on the station, but again there wasn't much that they could do.

I rang about four taxi firms; two didn't reply, one was in Plymouth and the other was in (I think) Exeter, so couldn't help. There were taxis arriving to collect pre-booked fares, so I then decided to ask the drivers for help. One of them couldn't help as all their drivers were busy, but I was fortunate to talk to one who was supposing to pick up a fare but wasn't sure whether they'd be wanting the taxi. It turned out they didn't, so I was able to book them and get to Exeter.

The problem with taxis in Totnes is whilst there's a large board with around a dozen firms on it, my driver said that they're all small firms with few drivers, and quite a few of them had ceased operating because of Covid, so they weren't available any more. It's also not possible to hail a cab at the station if they don't have a licence to take fares off the rank - I had to make a booking by phone for my taxi whilst standing next to the car.

Anyway, I got to Exeter, where the situation looked chaotic, although I will say that there were plenty of staff there dealing with it. They'd obviously decided to turn the incoming trains around there rather than letting them go any further, which made sense. Whilst I was waiting for my train, a coach from one of the local firms arrived, but where it was going (presumably to the west) arrived, so the position seemed to be getting better. In the hour that I was at Exeter, the numbers went down quite a lot, although there were still a fair number waiting when I left at just before 8.00pm.

I can't really complain about the actions of the staff at Totnes and Exeter St Davids. They did their best, especially the poor chap at Totnes, who really couldn't do anything to help because he couldn't contact anyone to move people on. The only exception was the helpline, which was very poor - they didn't seem to understand the problem and obviously weren't local, and only wanted to pass the problem onto someone else - again at the end of a phone, and who wouldn't / couldn't answer my call.

So there we go ... your report from "the main on the spot", and I hope that this has helped you understand the situation.

Thanks. It's always interesting to hear from someone on the spot and directly affected.

I always thought that whilst local staff would arrange onward transport for individual stranded passengers a major incident like this would be managed by Control in Swindon (or wherever they're located).

 

[PHILIPE]

Thanks. It's always interesting to hear from someone on the spot and directly affected.

I always thought that whilst local staff would arrange onward transport for individual stranded passengers a major incident like this would be managed by Control in Swindon (or wherever they're located).

Blame the fragmentation brought about by privatisation. In BR days there would be one person totally in overall charge