Transdev Blazefield

[WY Bus Spotter]

I noticed the lack of tweets too but did see that Metro managed to both tweet and add a message to the next bus system to advise of service disruption.

I eventually got into Keighley 40 mins late, with buses diverted all over the place and stuck in really bad traffic. My 60 was then affected due to driver break time (I would assume). I don't mind as I was only out bashing, but if I'd have been trying to get somewhere; particularly at a bus stop without realtime information I would have been pretty peeved.

 

[northernchris]

I eventually got into Keighley 40 mins late, with buses diverted all over the place and stuck in really bad traffic. My 60 was then affected due to driver break time (I would assume). I don't mind as I was only out bashing, but if I'd have been trying to get somewhere; particularly at a bus stop without realtime information I would have been pretty peeved.

I can only imagine what the traffic was like, Keighley can get snarled up on a Friday anyway! I've found the app really useful for real time info, especially the track buses feature as this shows the location of buses off route too, including a 662 I was waiting for recently which was counting down in minutes at the stop but was actually running down the bypass

 

[SCH117X]

Problem is Transdev seem to assume every passenger is using the app; many still do not have a smartphone, the elderly who do are often not that wise on IT matters, and many users are on a PAYG and avoid using data if possible. Its common to find a public wifi point, more so for BT Wifi users, which can quickly update twitter as you pass whereas the app needs a lot of data which might not load in time -sometimes on a weak wifi connection twitter whilst loading the text fails to load images for instance.

 

[Andyh82]

Team Pennine Services 20 & 21 in Halifax haven’t run at all today, all the buses are missing from service

The 524 doesn’t look to be running either, and various other rural services such as the 563 & 577 are only running every two hours instead of hourly

 

[RustySpoons]

Problem is Transdev seem to assume every passenger is using the app; many still do not have a smartphone, the elderly who do are often not that wise on IT matters, and many users are on a PAYG and avoid using data if possible. Its common to find a public wifi point, more so for BT Wifi users, which can quickly update twitter as you pass whereas the app needs a lot of data which might not load in time -sometimes on a weak wifi connection twitter whilst loading the text fails to load images for instance.

Someone pointed this out in response to a tweet regarding QR codes that they're sticking to timetables at bus stops that link to the temporary timetables they're running. I'd agree with you, a lot of older people aren't too clued up with QR codes, or as you say others won't have/use any mobile data. But it must have been seen as an aggressive tweet as the condescending reply was along the lines of 'lots of old people have smart phones'. That's ok then My grandmother has a smart phone just so she can play solitaire, if she's waiting at the bus stop not knowing there's a temporary timetable a QR code will be completely lost on her, and I'm sure the majority of other elderly users.

No offence to anyone who considers themselves 'elderly' and fully understands the technology!

 

[Andyh82]

The buses that aren’t running are still listed in the app, just not with the real time symbol

From various comments I read in Twitter over the years people don’t understand the difference

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I’m not certain how big the intersection is of people (of any age) who have a smartphone, don’t understand QR codes but are all over Twitter?

If the solitaire playing gran at the stop isn’t using her smartphone for anything else but that, then RTPI displays are probably the only option?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The App is at least Transdev's own platform. I'd sooner download an operator's app than sign up for Twitter...

However if the operator (even one of the better ones) can't be trusted to update the info on their own app, I'm not sure what more the average user can do.

 

[northernchris]

Problem is Transdev seem to assume every passenger is using the app; many still do not have a smartphone, the elderly who do are often not that wise on IT matters, and many users are on a PAYG and avoid using data if possible. Its common to find a public wifi point, more so for BT Wifi users, which can quickly update twitter as you pass whereas the app needs a lot of data which might not load in time -sometimes on a weak wifi connection twitter whilst loading the text fails to load images for instance.

Fair point and I agree that there's many scenarios where using the app isn't possible but its still useful to have as when accessible the info is very accurate. The other option is the Keighley duty managers actually update the next bus system so cancelled journeys are marked as such on the real time displays at stops.

The buses that aren’t running are still listed in the app, just not with the real time symbol

From various comments I read in Twitter over the years people don’t understand the difference

This is a frustration as there's been occasions where cancelled journeys have been removed from the app and other times it just shows scheduled time.

 

[52290]

Someone pointed this out in response to a tweet regarding QR codes that they're sticking to timetables at bus stops that link to the temporary timetables they're running. I'd agree with you, a lot of older people aren't too clued up with QR codes, or as you say others won't have/use any mobile data. But it must have been seen as an aggressive tweet as the condescending reply was along the lines of 'lots of old people have smart phones'. That's ok then My grandmother has a smart phone just so she can play solitaire, if she's waiting at the bus stop not knowing there's a temporary timetable a QR code will be completely lost on her, and I'm sure the majority of other elderly users.

No offence to anyone who considers themselves 'elderly' and fully understands the technology!

I'm 77 and I can, and do, use QR codes.

 

[JetBlast]

I must say some of the comments on here are ageist.

I’m sure there would be a huge response if people started making sweeping statements about peoples inability due to sex or race….

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm 77 and I can, and do, use QR codes.

I do think the "people without smartphones" demographic is massively overestimated in the minds of people who want to find fault. What I don't like is the over-reliance on Twitter, and the assumption that having an active presence on that social media site is all the customer service a business needs. The Facebook outage last week should serve as a warning on that front.

Whatever information service is used, be it a proprietary app or a third-party provider, it is only as good as the information the company themselves puts out. Twitter in particular is basically a popularity contest, so discourages an operator from giving out "bad news". If you act like everything's hunky-dory because you're worried about being ratioed, then it isn't really an information service is it? It's just a promotional tool.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I do think the "people without smartphones" demographic is massively overestimated in the minds of people who want to find fault. What I don't like is the over-reliance on Twitter, and the assumption that having an active presence on that social media site is all the customer service a business needs. The Facebook outage last week should serve as a warning on that front.

Whatever information service is used, be it a proprietary app or a third-party provider, it is only as good as the information the company themselves puts out. Twitter in particular is basically a popularity contest, so discourages an operator from giving out "bad news". If you act like everything's hunky-dory because you're worried about being ratioed, then it isn't really an information service is it? It's just a promotional tool.

The question is that if we accept that pensioners may not have smartphones, then how do you inform that demographic?

Where RTPI displays exist, then that should work but otherwise, how do you do it with an analogue solution?

However, if you say that people of whatever demographic DO have smartphones, the idea that they would be looking at Twitter but not using QR codes seems less likely.

 

[RustySpoons]

The question is that if we accept that pensioners may not have smartphones, then how do you inform that demographic?

Where RTPI displays exist, then that should work but otherwise, how do you do it with an analogue solution?

However, if you say that people of whatever demographic DO have smartphones, the idea that they would be looking at Twitter but not using QR codes seems less likely.

That is the best option I think. Not ideal, but the best option at the moment. There's more and more bus shelters being rebuilt with digital advertising boards, it has often crossed my mind why the bus companies don't make use of them. After all, Transdev don't allow advertising of anything other than the bus on their vehicles (apparently), why should the bus stop be any different?

I know it'd be an added expense but at a time when things are constantly changing it could be worthwhile. Even if they couldn't be updated in real time a notice advising that temporary timetables are in operation along with details of the updated timetable, and a telephone number people could call to actually speak to a human about it. Information on the bus you're waiting for is a lot more useful to the people waiting for it than knowing the Double Big Mac is back at McDonalds.

That being said, I'm guessing all bus shelter advertising is sorted by a third party company who will just sell the advertising space to the highest bidder, which will more than likely NOT be a local bus operator.

Obviously most solutions still require you to be at the bus stop in the first place, which isn't ideal if you're expecting a bus that isn't running, but knowing that there's a bus arriving in the next 15 minutes or not would be somewhat helpful.

Are they still trialling the e-ink displays at Harrogate Bus Station?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That is the best option I think. Not ideal, but the best option at the moment. There's more and more bus shelters being rebuilt with digital advertising boards, it has often crossed my mind why the bus companies don't make use of them. After all, Transdev don't allow advertising of anything other than the bus on their vehicles (apparently), why should the bus stop be any different?

I know it'd be an added expense but at a time when things are constantly changing it could be worthwhile. Even if they couldn't be updated in real time a notice advising that temporary timetables are in operation along with details of the updated timetable, and a telephone number people could call to actually speak to a human about it. Information on the bus you're waiting for is a lot more useful to the people waiting for it than knowing the Double Big Mac is back at McDonalds.

That being said, I'm guessing all bus shelter advertising is sorted by a third party company who will just sell the advertising space to the highest bidder, which will more than likely NOT be a local bus operator.

Obviously most solutions still require you to be at the bus stop in the first place, which isn't ideal if you're expecting a bus that isn't running, but knowing that there's a bus arriving in the next 15 minutes or not would be somewhat helpful.

Are they still trialling the e-ink displays at Harrogate Bus Station?

Don't know about Lancashire but bus stops tend to be of Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire PTEs. I think York City Council do the ones in York too but North Yorkshire is a bit more of a lottery.

That's the problem with many areas - the bus companies simply aren't allowed to touch the flags or timetable cases, let alone RTPI displays though, in fairness, the expense of that technology has tended to mean that it's a council/PTE responsibility.

 

[Goldfish62]

Don't know about Lancashire but bus stops tend to be of Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire PTEs. I think York City Council do the ones in York too but North Yorkshire is a bit more of a lottery.

That's the problem with many areas - the bus companies simply aren't allowed to touch the flags or timetable cases, let alone RTPI displays though, in fairness, the expense of that technology has tended to mean that it's a council/PTE responsibility.

Unfortunately real-time displays at bus stops are non-existent in Greater Manchester.

 

[asw22]

From what I understand, Metro (West Yorkshire) and TFGM (Manchester) are responsible for updating the displays in those areas.
I believe that Transdev update their displays at Skipton, Harrogate and Ripon (and possibly other North Yorkshire stops) but not sure about Lancashire.

I've wondered previously what proportion of revenue comes from advertising on buses / at stops compared to say fare box and concessionary pass reimbursement and whether additional passenger income (for advertising own services) makes up for it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Unfortunately real-time displays at bus stops are non-existent in Greater Manchester.

Indeed, so in the absence of those and with TfGM being responsible, there's not much operators can do in GM except to try and use social media

From what I understand, Metro (West Yorkshire) and TFGM (Manchester) are responsible for updating the displays in those areas.
I believe that Transdev update their displays at Skipton, Harrogate and Ripon (and possibly other North Yorkshire stops) but not sure about Lancashire.

That was what I thought about North Yorkshire. They had a splurge on new bus stop signs and poles about 20 years ago but have never bothered themselves about roadside publicity.

 

[Ken H]

The question is that if we accept that pensioners may not have smartphones, then how do you inform that demographic?

Where RTPI displays exist, then that should work but otherwise, how do you do it with an analogue solution?

However, if you say that people of whatever demographic DO have smartphones, the idea that they would be looking at Twitter but not using QR codes seems less likely.

it isnt difficult to send data to twitter, facebook and some internal PIS system automatically when you do an event like cancelling a bus. You do not need an army of people retyping the cancelled bus messages. a bit of the operators software will just update the external app via an API.

API = application programming interface. A call to an external system passing parameters to update or interrogate that system.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

it isnt difficult to send data to twitter, facebook and some internal PIS system automatically when you do an event like cancelling a bus. You do not need an army of people retyping the cancelled bus messages. a bit of the operators software will just update the external app via an API.

API = application programming interface. A call to an external system passing parameters to update or interrogate that system.

Yes and that’s fine and the criticism of Transdev and other operators in not using social media is one thing. However, how do you manage the analogue customers is a bigger issue than complaining about QR codes and apps vs Twitter.

There is often a complaint about communicating with those who don’t use smartphones.

 

[Ken H]

Yes and that’s fine and the criticism of Transdev and other operators in not using social media is one thing. However, how do you manage the analogue customers is a bigger issue than complaining about QR codes and apps vs Twitter.

There is often a complaint about communicating with those who don’t use smartphones.

Sorry. I thought the excuse was that its too difficult to update twitter, facebook, the operators own website, the PTE(for the PIS) with the cancellation.

 

[SCH117X]

The real time displays in Harrogate were originally installed by the Borough Council acting under an agency agreement with the County Council. Following a local govenment review when the County Councils case for a single unitary authority (on which matter has now been allowed under a further review) was thrown out the County cancelled the agency agreement and refused to maintain the displays. Transdev took that on.

 

[Deerfold]

Fair point and I agree that there's many scenarios where using the app isn't possible but its still useful to have as when accessible the info is very accurate. The other option is the Keighley duty managers actually update the next bus system so cancelled journeys are marked as such on the real time displays at stops.



This is a frustration as there's been occasions where cancelled journeys have been removed from the app and other times it just shows scheduled time.

That would help enormously. I once again considered catching the 0728 service 60 this morning, but as it doesn't seem to have ever run I thought about catching the 0715 662. There were about 20 people waiting for that at Keighley bus station. It didn't run, but was showing scheduled times. I had, instead, another walk. The 0728 didn't seem to run either, but I'm glad I set off before it was due. Knowing there was a problem with these routes would help a lot of people. Continually cancelling routes *without any effort to let people know* is just going to drive them away.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Just for a bit of balance after the moans, I was pleased to discover that Team Pennine have resumed sending the Wakefield to Holmfirth buses up the hill to Denby Dale station. Not only that, but the timetables in the bus shelter at Denby Dale "Interchange" have been updated.

 

[Andyh82]

Service 319 doesn’t seem to be operating today and the 360 didn’t seem to really get going until mid morning

Surely they should have introduced a emergency reduced timetable on the Huddersfield services by now rather than continuing like this?

 

[RustySpoons]

Wonder if there's any other operators that can operate services on Transdev's behalf, similar to how CT Plus and Connexions are running various services on behalf of First?

 

[RELL6L]

One board missing on the X1 as well as many of the usual suspects. Most days only one of two boards running on the 563. 20/21 two of 3 boards running and other gaps. Surely the traffic commissioner should be taking action soon!

 

[RustySpoons]

One board missing on the X1 as well as many of the usual suspects. Most days only one of two boards running on the 563. 20/21 two of 3 boards running and other gaps. Surely the traffic commissioner should be taking action soon!

I think if Pennine was the only operator missing journeys in this way I'm sure the TC would be showing an interest, but I imagine it's an issue across the country.

However Transdev don't appear to be dealing with it very well going off previous posts on here and angry commuters on Twitter... The endless stream of positive looking PR posts on social media doesn't seem to be having a positive effect on those who are being inconvenienced. Perhaps cutting back on the PR and diverting the effort into announcing missing services would be a better idea.

 

[Andyh82]

Wonder if there's any other operators that can operate services on Transdev's behalf, similar to how CT Plus and Connexions are running various services on behalf of First?

South Pennine Community Transport have taken over a few services on behalf of Team Pennine

Of course it was announced with a layer of PR about it being a great partnership between two operators etc

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Clearly, it's a massive problem across the industry. They could, and should, have an amended timetable in operation though even then, you wonder how robust that could be. I've had a couple of trips out in recent weeks (not Transdev) and the number of no shows has been quite staggering. I have some sympathy for all operators at the moment.

The problem for Transdev is then to be seen pumping out PR fluff whilst not advising of genuine issues. Don't know if they have an external firm providing the PR tweets but it's a case of not reading the room.