GTR to loan 6 387's to GWR

[Horizon22]

So is the reverse cascade?

387/2s from GWR return to GN/SN
387/1 from GWR to cover for cracked 800/802 on some Paddington to Cardiff services
7-car 345 from XR to cover 387/1 on a limited number of peak hour services from Paddington to Maidenhead/Reading
8-car 315 to remain in service on TfL East replacing 7-car 345

Or have I got hold of the wrong end of the stick and these are all unconnected

Some of the peak 387 services are going to Crossrail / TfL Rail permanently.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Thank you. I had not appreciated that this was a permanent transfer from 387 to 345. Presumably it means a micro fleet of 7-car 345s will operate out of Paddington (because they use P14) until the core opens, when I guess these trains will run to destinations East of Paddington. I realise that it is somewhat of an open ended date at present, but when the IET faults are finally resolved, won't this leave GWR with a surplus of 387s compared to their Dec 2019 pre-covid utilisation?

 

[JonathanH]

Some of the peak 387 services are going to Crossrail / TfL Rail permanently.

It looks like TfL Rail pick up the following evening relief line services from the timetable change - some still shown as working from platform 14. This seems to suggest the return of 7-car 345s on the west side for limited workings.

9N51 1727 London Paddington to Maidenhead
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G91995/2021-12-15/detailed

9R59 1826 London Paddington to Reading
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G92074/2021-12-15/detailed

9R63 1856 London Paddington to Reading
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G92078/2021-12-15/detailed

Two diagrams
3P51 1709 Old Oak Depot to London Paddington
9N51 1727 London Paddington to Maidenhead
5N51 1804 Maidenhead to Maidenhead Reversing Sdgs
3P14 1813 Maidenhead Reversing Sdgs to London Paddington
9N14 1858 London Paddington to Maidenhead
5N14 1944 Maidenhead to Maidenhead Reversing Sdgs
5Y14 1957 Maidenhead Reversing Sdgs to Old Oak Depot

3P59 1758 Old Oak Depot to London Paddington
9R59 1826 London Paddington to Reading
5Y59 1927 Reading to Old Oak Depot

The 1856 to Reading is formed of a 9-car unit by stepping up the working which currently does 9N14 and then goes from Reading to Maidenhead Carriage Sidings.

GWR retain

1N42 1656 London Paddington to Maidenhead
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L87310/2021-12-15/detailed

1R03 1756 London Paddington to Reading
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L87396/2021-12-15/detailed

 

[swt_passenger]

Thank you. I had not appreciated that this was a permanent transfer from 387 to 345. Presumably it means a micro fleet of 7-car 345s will operate out of Paddington (because they use P14) until the core opens, when I guess these trains will run to destinations East of Paddington. I realise that it is somewhat of an open ended date at present, but when the IET faults are finally resolved, won't this leave GWR with a surplus of 387s compared to their Dec 2019 pre-covid utilisation?

The 387 fleet would have already been sized for the situation with full Crossrail, but it would have also included some Oxford services, but they’ve also taken on Heathrow Express. So it probably all balances out ok…

 

[Horizon22]

It looks like TfL Rail pick up the following evening relief line services from the timetable change - some still shown as working from platform 14. This seems to suggest the return of 7-car 345s on the west side for limited workings.

9N51 1727 London Paddington to Maidenhead
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G91995/2021-12-15/detailed

9R59 1826 London Paddington to Reading
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G92074/2021-12-15/detailed

9R63 1856 London Paddington to Reading
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G92078/2021-12-15/detailed

Two diagrams
3P51 1709 Old Oak Depot to London Paddington
9N51 1727 London Paddington to Maidenhead
5N51 1804 Maidenhead to Maidenhead Reversing Sdgs
3P14 1813 Maidenhead Reversing Sdgs to London Paddington
9N14 1858 London Paddington to Maidenhead
5N14 1944 Maidenhead to Maidenhead Reversing Sdgs
5Y14 1957 Maidenhead Reversing Sdgs to Old Oak Depot

3P59 1758 Old Oak Depot to London Paddington
9R59 1826 London Paddington to Reading
5Y59 1927 Reading to Old Oak Depot

The 1856 to Reading is formed of a 9-car unit by stepping up the working which currently does 9N14 and then goes from Reading to Maidenhead Carriage Sidings.

GWR retain

1N42 1656 London Paddington to Maidenhead
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L87310/2021-12-15/detailed

1R03 1756 London Paddington to Reading
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L87396/2021-12-15/detailed

Yep broadly correct.

There's a couple of morning services too.

2P70 (ex 1P78) 0730 Reading - Paddington https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G92766/2021-12-15/detailed. Then forms 5Y70 to Old Oak
2P74 (ex 1P80) 0800 Reading (ex 0734 Didcot Parkway) - Paddington https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G92767/2021-12-15/detailed. Then forms 5Y74 to Old Oak

2P74 used to be 1P80 - 1P80 will now be 2L11 from Didcot Parkway to Reading.

I find it interesting they've not been 9xxx coded - probably because they are 7-cars and can utilise Platform 14 at Paddington which can hold a maximum of 8 cars.

 

[theblackwatch]

Any idea how many 387 services there are likely to be to Cardiff please? I'm guessing largely just peak hour?

 

[anthony263]

I have seen the 1415 london to Cardiff and 1650 return on Sundays mentioned

 

[Mag_seven]

A reminder that this thread is a Traction and Rolling stock thread to discuss the loan of 6 387s to GWR by GTR.

To discuss diagrams (Class 387, 345 etc) please use or create another thread in the Allocations and Timetables section.

thanks

 

[Horizon22]

They're heading back now.

This was 5Q54 - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:85358/2021-12-03/detailed. It was likely 387202.

 

[3973EXL]

They're heading back now.

This was 5Q54 - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:85358/2021-12-03/detailed. It was likely 387202.

VSTP 03/12

Realtime Trains - 551C 1139 Reading Traincare Depot to Hornsey E.M.U.D.

Dep 1146

57306 + 387202 + 387206

Was originally planned for two moves of 12 cars but there were length issues with a runaround at the Hornsey end so it will be 3 moves of 8 cars.

 

[Deepgreen]

They're heading back now.

This was 5Q54 - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:85358/2021-12-03/detailed. It was likely 387202.

As an aside, I note that RTT in your link describes it as "empty non-passenger stock". Odd terminology, as it implies the ECS is not passenger stock, which it is; just empty.

 

[Horizon22]

As an aside, I note that RTT in your link describes it as "empty non-passenger stock". Odd terminology, as it implies the ECS is not passenger stock, which it is; just empty.

I suppose there's a very slight difference between this sort of train (that was an ECS move which was never in passenger service) and an ECS move which was previously a passenger service. In reality it's all the same thing but I suppose RTT knows enough to make the distinction.

 

[CR165022]

387301 has made it to Paddington this evening, first time?

 

[43 302]

387301 has made it to Paddington this evening, first time?

Yep, first.

 

[JN114]

387301 has made it to Paddington this evening, first time?

Correct first c2c set in passenger service with GWR east of Reading.

The sublease has now officially ended of the GTR sets, so the 4 units remaining (201/203-205) at Reading are stood down awaiting return to Hornsey, ROG will be dragging them back this week via Letchworth with our 57306.

Timetable change is another week away, hence the creative controlling that saw 7301 make it to Paddington tonight.

 

[D365]

The sublease has now officially ended of the GTR sets, so the 4 units remaining (201/203-205) at Reading are stood down awaiting return to Hornsey, ROG will be dragging them back this week via Letchworth with our 57306.

ROG operating DRS 57306 on behalf of GWR/GTR/Porterbrook?

 

[43096]

ROG operating DRS 57306 on behalf of GWR/GTR/Porterbrook?

57306 itself is owned by Porterbrook, leased to DRS, who sub-lease it to GWR. Complicated, innit?

 

[43096]

Correct first c2c set in passenger service with GWR east of Reading.

The sublease has now officially ended of the GTR sets, so the 4 units remaining (201/203-205) at Reading are stood down awaiting return to Hornsey, ROG will be dragging them back this week via Letchworth with our 57306.

Timetable change is another week away, hence the creative controlling that saw 7301 make it to Paddington tonight.

I believe the sub-lease on 387301/2/6 has also ended, but in this case they are now directly leased to GWR. I did see a suggestion that 387303/4/5 would follow and that they’d have the mods to make them fully compatible with the native green fleet: no idea if this is actually happening, though.

 

[Fincra5]

Correct first c2c set in passenger service with GWR east of Reading.

The sublease has now officially ended of the GTR sets, so the 4 units remaining (201/203-205) at Reading are stood down awaiting return to Hornsey, ROG will be dragging them back this week via Letchworth with our 57306.

Timetable change is another week away, hence the creative controlling that saw 7301 make it to Paddington tonight.

Needed back to be Branded again for GTR's timetable change.... (Not sure if these ones are heading back to GX vice GN)

 

[03_179]

All 6 to Hornsey.

387208 or 9 to go back Brighton

 

[3973EXL]

VSTP 07/12

Realtime Trains - 5Q54 1139 Reading Traincare Depot to Hornsey E.M.U.D.

 

[FGW_DID]

VSTP 07/12

Realtime Trains - 5Q54 1139 Reading Traincare Depot to Hornsey E.M.U.D.

57306 + 387204 + 387201 + 387205

 

[MatthewRead]

Correct first c2c set in passenger service with GWR east of Reading.

The sublease has now officially ended of the GTR sets, so the 4 units remaining (201/203-205) at Reading are stood down awaiting return to Hornsey, ROG will be dragging them back this week via Letchworth with our 57306.

Timetable change is another week away, hence the creative controlling that saw 7301 make it to Paddington tonight.

I thought the 387/3's were not permitted east of Reading?

 

[JonathanH]

I thought the 387/3's were not permitted east of Reading?

I suspect you missed this posting.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-387-diagrams.224855/#post-5411145

I don't think it was ever posted that 387/3s couldn't go east of Reading - there just weren't any suitable diagrams. They just could only go on their own or boxed in between two other units so it was easier to keep them on the two Reading to Newbury diagrams where they were guaranteed to operate on their own.

If they are being adapted to have the same functionality as the 'native' 387 fleet, they might be able to work interchangeably with the other 387s.

 

[JN114]

I thought the 387/3's were not permitted east of Reading?

No, that has never been the case.

They (the /3s) are not permitted to operate in GWR passenger service, in multiple with any other 387 (of any type); except if boxed-in both ends as the middle of a 12 car formation by two Tracklink-3 enabled units (so GWR /1s or GTR/2s).

The reason they were kept to the Reading Newburys was that that is the only diagrammed all-day 4 car work. While middle-of-12 operation is permitted, it’s operationally a pain in the backside to achieve.

There have been attempts by yours truly to send them to Paddington solo in the past, but they’ve always been thwarted until this week.

The /2s being stood down and returned to Hornsey hasn’t happened in sync with the diagram changes needed to account for that, so a need to be more creative with how the units have used has afforded the opportunity to see the /3s finally visit Paddington as a 4 vice 8 to free up units elsewhere for other peak strengthening.

 

[St. Paddy]

Slightly off topic but 387202 has received standard Great Northern branding at Hornsey, seen in the yard coupled to an unbranded 387204.

 

[43102EMR]

Slightly off topic but 387202 has received standard Great Northern branding at Hornsey, seen in the yard coupled to an unbranded 387204.

No “operated by gatwick express” next to it?

 

[JaJaWa]

Standard meaning dark green or light blue doors?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Standard meaning dark green or light blue doors?

You’re getting branding confused with livery there

 

[St. Paddy]

No “operated by gatwick express” next to it?

That’s correct

Standard meaning dark green or light blue doors?

Branding, not livery