Omicron variant and the measures implemented in response to it

[Bayum]

I am very pro-vaccine, but this really concerns me. It’s the first time in this entire pandemic that I’ve questioned whether the JCVI is truly acting in my best interest, as opposed to panicking under political pressure and doing something that might help against an unknown threat.

it reminds me of the significant interval cut in response to Delta, but based on far less concrete evidence.

I don’t really have time to look into it (I will eventually), but if anyone feels able to explain in a nutshell why this is better than waiting for the proven benefits of a booster at >6 months, I’d be very glad to hear it.

A third within any time period should (hopefully!) increase antibodies in the immunocompotent population. Granted you may lose the benefit of the longer period but the important thing at the moment is making sure that the population has a big increase in antibodies is how I understand it.

 

[YorkshireBear]

LNER might do themselves no favours but certainly from my rail travel over the last four months they are by far the busiest TOC!

 

[Towers]

And that's before you consider the logistics of having the capacity to administer in excess of over 200 million jabs per, every year if a 3 month regime were adopted.

This is my concern with all of this; I've had my two shots, am wavering over the booster, and am wondering where this will end. Immuno-supressed already being told they need a fourth, by a panel who essentially admitted at the same briefing that this is a panic response and the vaccine may or may not work against Omicron. Which itself may or may not be the enormous problem that it's being hyped up to be.

I'm not anti-vax, however I do firmly agree that it is entirely reasonable to be concerned at receiving repeated doses of drugs which have not been tested anywhere near as fully as they normally would have been, and for which there is zero data available as to long term effects. The same scattergun tactics were quoted for administering second doses to 12 plus, with the 'reassurance' that the drug is being closely monitored - how on earth that is supposed to give anybody confidence I really don't know!

This all smacks very strongly indeed of panic politics now. How long will it be before the "vere are your papers?" Covid passport nations start adding booster jabs to the scheme I wonder.

 

[DustyBin]

A third within any time period should (hopefully!) increase antibodies in the immunocompotent population. Granted you may lose the benefit of the longer period but the important thing at the moment is making sure that the population has a big increase in antibodies is how I understand it.

I just don’t get the need to increase antibodies in the immunocompetent, we appear to be completely disregarding everything we know about the human immune system.

Incidentally (and you’re probably aware already) but the immunocompromised are to be offered a second booster, I didn’t see anything about timeframes though.

Edit: @Towers beat me to it re the second booster.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

£20 a shot, yikes. Whole thing stinking more than ever.

The flu innoculation has been existing for many years and is administered annually, as the virus seems to be different from year to year. This means the drugs companies are on a never-ending programme of research.

Does anyone know what the cost is for a flu innoculation?

This is my concern with all of this; I've had my two shots, am wavering over the booster, and am wondering where this will end. Immuno-supressed already being told they need a fourth, by a panel who essentially admitted at the same briefing that this is a panic response and the vaccine may or may not work against Omicron. Which itself may or may not be the enormous problem that it's being hyped up to be.

I'm not anti-vax, however I do firmly agree that it is entirely reasonable to be concerned at receiving repeated doses of drugs which have not been tested anywhere near as fully as they normally would have been, and for which there is zero data available as to long term effects. The same scattergun tactics were quoted for administering second doses to 12 plus, with the 'reassurance' that the drug is being closely monitored - how on earth that is supposed to give anybody confidence I really don't know!

This all smacks very strongly indeed of panic politics now. How long will it be before the "vere are your papers?" Covid passport nations start adding booster jabs to the scheme I wonder.

I had my first Pfizer innoculation in mid-January this year and my second Pfizer innoculation at the end of March this year.

I had my annual flu innoculation on 7th October and my Pfizer booster innoculation (after being contacted) on 20th October.

I am 76 years of age and the only side effect was the usual sore arm for a couple of days and as a matter of personal preference, I have continued to wear a disposable face covering on public transport and in retail establishments since they first came into force.

 

[adc82140]

I felt like sh*t for two days after each jab. That's a total of 6 working days lost this year. I only lost 10 days when I actually had Covid.

 

[Towers]

The flu innoculation has been existing for many years and is administered annually, as the virus seems to be different from year to year. This means the drugs companies are on a never-ending programme of research.

Does anyone know what the cost is for a flu innoculation?


I had my first Pfizer innoculation in mid-January this year and my second Pfizer innoculation at the end of March this year.

I had my annual flu innoculation on 7th October and my Pfizer booster innoculation (after being contacted) on 20th October.

I am 76 years of age and the only side effect was the usual sore arm for a couple of days and as a matter of personal preference, I have continued to wear a disposable face covering on public transport and in retail establishments since they first came into force.

The flu jab is of course administered free to those in at risk groups, but everybody else pays for it - £10 a go isn't it, or thereabouts? We also don't tend to force it upon the entire population, including those for whom it is accepted that the illness carries minimal risk. I've no idea how much the pharma companies sell it for, but presumably there is a margin of some degree in there for the retailers as well (Boots, etc). I would imagine that substantial amounts of government funding have been pumped into the Covid vaccines to supplement the research and development costs, of course.

With the utmost respect to our senior citizens, I can fully appreciate that the benefits of receiving numerous shots of new drugs easily outweighs any potential risks if you are inherently vulnerable, but for those who are young, healthy and almost certainly not going to become seriously ill - and who also hopefully have a good few decades still to enjoy on this mortal coil - the perceived balance of risk is very different. There is already a degree of emerging evidence, some of it anecdotal, some of it recorded through official channels up to and including the Coroner, that there may very well be a link between vaccines and blood clots, and of course this has been accepted to be the case for one of the jabs (Oxford?) and youngsters, resulting in the powers-that-be avoiding using it for that age group. This is the sort of thing for which actual data will only emerge a long way down the line, and underscores just how new and untried these drugs are.

 

[DustyBin]

The flu innoculation has been existing for many years and is administered annually, as the virus seems to be different from year to year. This means the drugs companies are on a never-ending programme of research.

Does anyone know what the cost is for a flu innoculation?

I can’t help in regard to cost but you’re right there are several strains of flu hence the ongoing vaccine development. There is however only a single strain of SARS-CoV-2.

I had my first Pfizer innoculation in mid-January this year and my second Pfizer innoculation at the end of March this year.

I had my annual flu innoculation on 7th October and my Pfizer booster innoculation (after being contacted) on 20th October.

I am 76 years of age and the only side effect was the usual sore arm for a couple of days and as a matter of personal preference, I have continued to wear a disposable face covering on public transport and in retail establishments since they first came into force.

At 76 I think you’re being perfectly sensible getting vaccinated, indeed I advised my more “mature” relatives to do the same. I only know first hand of one person suffering serious side effects; plenty of sore arms though!

If you prefer to wear a mask that is entirely your choice and not one you should be denied in my opinion. All I ask is that those who choose not to wear one are allowed the same freedom of choice. We really need to detoxify the issue as it’s seriously damaging to our society.

 

[DelayRepay]

Does anyone know what the cost is for a flu innoculation?

I had a private flu jab through a pharmacy, paid for by my employer. It cost £14.99. That would include an element of profit for the pharmacy I assume, so the cost to the NHS should be lower, and the NHS has economies of scale in terms of both purchase and delivery of the jabs.

 

[12C]

Jenny Harries now suggesting we should limit socialising in the run up to Christmas. Here we go again…

Boris Johnson rejects health official’s advice to reduce festive socialising | Coronavirus | The Guardian

PM says no need to strengthen guidance despite UK Health Security Agency chief’s cautionary message

amp.theguardian.com

Harries had earlier urged people to reduce their social contact even if only by a little as fears grow that existing vaccines will prove less effective against the Omicron variant.
“Of course our behaviours in winter – and particularly around Christmas – we tend to socialise more, so I think all of those will need to be taken into account,” the former deputy chief medical officer for England told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.
“So I think being careful, not socialising when we don’t particularly need to and particularly going and getting those booster jabs.”

 

[brad465]

When the world's markets can be easily spooked by the remarks of a company presenting mostly opinions on something still not well known, especially when that company is one that had almost no world influence a year or two ago, something is seriously wrong:

Global markets fall after Moderna Omicron warning

Stock markets slide after Moderna boss casts doubt on vaccine effectiveness against new variant.

www.bbc.co.uk

European stock markets have fallen after the boss of Moderna cast doubts on the effectiveness of vaccines against the new Omicron Covid variant.

Stephane Bancel told the Financial Times he thought there would be a "material drop" in vaccine efficacy.

The Covid variant was first detected in South Africa, and the symptoms have been mild so far.

But travel restrictions have been imposed as a precaution by places including the UK, the EU and the US.

Stock markets fell after the warning by the Moderna chief executive in the Financial Times interview.

Mr Bancel predicted that existing vaccines would be less effective in staving off Omicron, and that it would take months for drugs companies to update vaccines.

"There is no world, I think, where [the effectiveness] is the same level," he said.

UK's FTSE 100, Germany's Dax, and France's Cac 40 slipped more than 1.5% each, and the pan-European Stoxx 600 dropped 1.5% to hit its lowest levels in nearly seven weeks, before they all regained some ground.

There was also a scramble for safe haven assets such as gold, German government bonds, and the yen.

I would not be surprised if this incident alone deterred people from getting further vaccine doses more than any other deterrence so far, this comes across as a clear conflict of interest.

 

[Cdd89]

It seems like an incredibly obvious statement — I’ve seen nobody who thinks there will be zero drop in efficacy against infection. The question is to what extent that feeds through into hospitalisations and deaths.

 

[nw1]

I've no objection to the measures on returning international travellers. I would have no objection to the mask rules, if loose bits of cloth made a significant difference.

I do fail to see the point of restrictions on returning travellers from parts of the world other than southern Africa. It seems completely pointless to me. If the UK had zero cases of this new mutation, maybe, but that is not the case.

 

[brad465]

Another report highlighting the costs of this variant reaction is one business having had 20 cancellations in one weekend among wider hospitality concerns:

Covid: 'We’ve had 20 cancellations in one weekend'

As worries emerge over a new Covid variant, hospitality fears it could thwart the busiest time of year.

www.bbc.co.uk

"We had 20 cancellations over the weekend, mostly for Christmas parties. Customers were phoning to tell us they weren't sure what was going to happen in a few weeks so they'd rather cancel now."
Damian Wawrzyniak, an award-winning chef, is one of many in the hospitality industry worried about the impact the Omicron variant of coronavirus is having on his business.
The sector has been allowed to operate free from restrictions since 19 July, but there are fears customer confidence in eating and drinking out has taken a hit as restaurants and bars prepare for their main money-making period of the year.
There are also concerns some measures could return after the government announced it was reintroducing mandatory mask-wearing in shops and on public transport.
"Hospitality has been waiting for Christmas, and if it's not what we were hoping for, there's going to be some casualties across the industry, including my places," said Mr Wawrzyniak, who runs House of Feasts in Peterborough.
"We won't be able to survive without that Christmas trade."
Hospitality has been one of the hardest hit industries by the coronavirus pandemic, with many pubs, hotels and eateries being closed during lockdowns.
As businesses have begun to recover and recoup lost earnings, a chronic shortage in workers surfaced, with job vacancies reaching the highest levels since records began.

Remember, these businesses pay taxes, as do their employees, and these taxes should be paying for our health service that helps manage covid and other health conditions. If they can't operate, the covid response is weakened.

 

[Yew]

I do fail to see the point of restrictions on returning travellers from parts of the world other than southern Africa. It seems completely pointless to me. If the UK had zero cases of this new mutation, maybe, but that is not the case.

It may not make epidemiological sense, but it certainly makes political sense...

 

[nw1]

It may not make epidemiological sense, but it certainly makes political sense...

Does it make political sense though? Restrictions with no good reason will just turn people against the government, I suspect. This government is already disliked by remainers and leftists, but I now sense much of the right is turning against them, too. Travel restrictions within Europe, in particular, need a clear and unambiguous rationale. If they are going to be adopted at the drop of a hat, without a good scientific reason, every time a mutation occurs, then many sectors of the economy could be in real trouble. We're going to be getting one of these mutations every few months, can we afford to react like this every time?

And it's not just travel, as seen in the post above, it's the crisis in confidence in other sectors such as pubs, restaurants and hotels too.

 

[Towers]

Another report highlighting the costs of this variant reaction is one business having had 20 cancellations in one weekend among wider hospitality concerns:

Covid: 'We’ve had 20 cancellations in one weekend'

As worries emerge over a new Covid variant, hospitality fears it could thwart the busiest time of year.

www.bbc.co.uk

Remember, these businesses pay taxes, as do their employees, and these taxes should be paying for our health service that helps manage covid and other health conditions. If they can't operate, the covid response is weakened.

And this of course is not folks cancelling because they're worried about Covid, or because businesses have had to close - this is simply the uncertainty caused by this piecemeal approach to things, meaning that people would rather cut their losses and opt for a Plan B now than be disappointed later. This stuff is not helpful to an economy already struggling to get back on its feet.

 

[Ediswan]

The flu jab is of course administered free to those in at risk groups, but everybody else pays for it - £10 a go isn't it, or thereabouts?

Typically £15. Can be as low as £8. As has been noted, that is the cost of providing the service. How much of that goes to the vaccine supplier is not clear.

 

[yorksrob]

Jenny Harries now suggesting we should limit socialising in the run up to Christmas. Here we go again…

Boris Johnson rejects health official’s advice to reduce festive socialising | Coronavirus | The Guardian

PM says no need to strengthen guidance despite UK Health Security Agency chief’s cautionary message

amp.theguardian.com

I only ever undertake socialising that I deem necessary, so I will not be changing.

 

[adc82140]

Jenny Harries now suggesting we should limit socialising in the run up to Christmas. Here we go again…

Boris Johnson rejects health official’s advice to reduce festive socialising | Coronavirus | The Guardian

PM says no need to strengthen guidance despite UK Health Security Agency chief’s cautionary message

amp.theguardian.com

She's been well and truely put in her place by Johnson.

From the BBC live feed:

Asked whether Boris Johnson shared that view, the prime minister's spokesman told reporters: "No" saying the government's advice to the public was set out at the weekend.

"We have put advice out on face coverings and on inward travellers and those who are identified as having the Omicron variant.

"Beyond that we haven't set out any further guidance to the public," they added.

 

[duncanp]

I do fail to see the point of restrictions on returning travellers from parts of the world other than southern Africa. It seems completely pointless to me. If the UK had zero cases of this new mutation, maybe, but that is not the case.

Indeed, I am coming back to the UK from France on Friday, and the infection rate in France is, er, lower than that in the UK.

Yet Mr Peppa Pig says that I have to self isolate.

Perhaps he thinks that there is a more virulent Omacron variant circulating in France which warrants these pointless rules.

 

[nw1]

Typically £15. Can be as low as £8. As has been noted, that is the cost of providing the service. How much of that goes to the vaccine supplier is not clear.

Strangely I got a text about a free flu jab (which I haven't taken up), and I definitely don't see myself as an at-risk group. Last time I had an at all close-to-severe viral illness was in late 1999 with the notorious Millennium Flu, which put me in bed for about three days. So maybe they need to re-evaluate who the flu jabs go out to, and offer them for free to people who are actually at risk.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yet Mr Peppa Pig says that I have to self isolate.

Come on, let's get his name correct. Even my young grand-daughter knows he is called Daddy Pig.

 

[Bikeman78]

Jenny Harries now suggesting we should limit socialising in the run up to Christmas. Here we go again…

Boris Johnson rejects health official’s advice to reduce festive socialising | Coronavirus | The Guardian

PM says no need to strengthen guidance despite UK Health Security Agency chief’s cautionary message

amp.theguardian.com

How does Jenny Harries explain that, if working from home is so important, Wales is doing no better than England?

 

[Horizon22]

Evidently reducing socialising reduces spread. So does everyone being locked down indefinitely. But everything is not Covid and such actions can have serious medium & long-term consequences. And frankly "necessary" is totally up to interpretation and an odd remark.

 

[43066]

A response from me on a very personal matter that just a few website members are aware of.

The funeral service for my dear wife Patricia is scheduled for 1130 on 9th December. Will any new draconian measures be put in place to disrupt that, as people are travelling from all over the country and have already booked hotels to stay at.

Just to say, I’m very sorry indeed to hear this, and I do hope your arrangements run smoothly.

 

[Ted633]

How does Jenny Harries explain that, if working from home is so important, Wales is doing no better than England?

The same logic that applies to facemasks I expect.

 

[nw1]

How does Jenny Harries explain that, if working from home is so important, Wales is doing no better than England?

The problem with these sorts of pronouncements are that they could cause real panic, and impact severely on venues that are hoping to use the Christmas season to recover from the past two years. I'm not sure whether there is enough evidence yet to justify frightening people off going out.

 

[Dave91131]

The problem with these sorts of pronouncements are that they could cause real panic, and impact severely on venues that are hoping to use the Christmas season to recover from the past two years. I'm not sure whether there is enough evidence yet to justify frightening people off going out.

I think it's a bit late sadly, people are already diving back behind their sofas - in the last 24 hours I know of 3 companies who employ friends or relatives that have cancelled their Christmas parties, a restaurant that employs a close friend has had 15-20% of its Christmas day bookings cancel, and my local hairdresser has had 20+ phonecalls from people saying "I'll leave it until after Christmas".

 

[Bikeman78]

I think it's a bit late sadly, people are already diving back behind their sofas - in the last 24 hours I know of 3 companies who employ friends or relatives that have cancelled their Christmas parties, a restaurant that employs a close friend has had 15-20% of its Christmas day bookings cancel, and my local hairdresser has had 20+ phonecalls from people saying "I'll leave it until after Christmas".

Which goes back to what I said earlier. It's all media driven panic, just like the fuel panic a few weeks ago. If the media stopped talking about Covid, most people would barely know it was here any more.