Omicron variant and the measures implemented in response to it

[MikeWM]

LNER have already been telling people that they have to mask up on stations, which as far as I am concerned is total bs. They've restricted replies to the tweet though.

The new regs have arrived. Hurrah :-/

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/1340/pdfs/uksi_20211340_en.pdf

As far as I can see, basically exactly the same as before, definitions, exemptions, fines, etc. So no, no legal requirement on stations as far as I can see.

They've folded in the signage requirements into this one too, which used to be in a mostly unrelated regulation. As far as I have ever read that one, it means that signs have to point out the existence of excuses and exemptions, and it is an offense if they don't.

They do expire (for now) on December 20th, so they will have to either explicitly remove or extend them in 3 weeks time. Which is something I suppose.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I hope the armchair experts and professional cynics on this thread listened to the press conference this afternoon. Van Tam & Co gave what I thought was a pretty good explanation of what's going on and why.

Yes very good very measured shame they didn't roll him out instead of BoJo and the media might not have leaped off a cliff and set hares running.

 

[DustyBin]

I hope the armchair experts and professional cynics on this thread listened to the press conference this afternoon. Van Tam & Co gave what I thought was a pretty good explanation of what's going on and why.

Van Tam & Co lend credibility to what is in fact a total charade, nothing more. I'm amazed that people are still taken in by it to be honest!

 

[greyman42]

Van Tam & Co lend credibility to what is in fact a total charade, nothing more. I'm amazed that people are still taken in by it to be honest!

For whatever reason, some people do not want this to end and are keen on more restrictions.

 

[Watershed]

As far as I can see, basically exactly the same as before, definitions, exemptions, fines, etc. So no, no legal requirement on stations as far as I can see.

As before, the legal requirement also applies within any indoor portion of a station, and the definition of indoors is anywhere that the smoking ban would apply (i.e. somewhere with a roof and at least half of all sides enclosed).

They've folded in the signage requirements into this one too, which used to be in a mostly unrelated regulation. As far as I have ever read that one, it means that signs have to point out the existence of excuses and exemptions, and it is an offense if they don't.

The requirement is either to display a sign or to:

take other measures to ensure that any person who enters the relevant place or boards the public transport vehicle without wearing a face covering is given the information specified in paragraph (4).
...
(4) The information to be given to the person under paragraph (1)(b) is that the person is required to wear a face covering unless an exemption applies to the person or the person has a reasonable excuse not to wear a face covering.

So as long as staff tell off anyone who enters without a mask, they are fine.

A new offence is also created, of prohibiting the wearing of face coverings:

A person responsible for carrying on a business in a relevant area must not prevent, or seek to prevent, a person (“P”) from wearing a face covering while P is present in the relevant area

I will be very interested to see what levels of compliance - and enforcement - are like.

 

[Scotrail314209]

LNER have already been telling people that they have to mask up on stations, which as far as I am concerned is total bs. They've restricted replies to the tweet though.

Scotrail have been pushing that for ages... even on uncovered platforms.

 

[MikeWM]

As before, the legal requirement also applies within any indoor portion of a station, and the definition of indoors is anywhere that the smoking ban would apply (i.e. somewhere with a roof and at least half of all sides enclosed).

Ah, you're right, bit irritating that this is in the 'interpretation' section rather than listed as a 'relevant place' specifically. Rubbish drafting!

So as long as staff tell off anyone who enters without a mask, they are fine.

...though - as before - they also have to tell them about the existence of excuses and exemptions while telling them off

A new offence is also created, of prohibiting the wearing of face coverings:

This was in the previous regs too (the same ones as the signage requirements), but no-one ever seemed to mention or notice it. I wonder if anyone ever got fined for that?

 

[bengley]

Scotrail have been pushing that for ages... even on uncovered platforms.

In fairness, it is a legal requirement in Scotland to wear one even on open air parts of stations.

 

[GodAtum]

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a person is using a public transport service at any time when— (a) they are boarding a public transport vehicle, or (b) they are (whether or not for the purposes of travel)

Doesn't that cover train stations as they are boarding a train?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Van Tam & Co lend credibility to what is in fact a total charade, nothing more. I'm amazed that people are still taken in by it to be honest!

He dialled back on the media frenzy that has ensued from BoJo deliberate attempt to change the headlines for his benefit. The real downsize from this will be further undermining NHS recovery of waiting lists as the NHS gets diverted into tripling the daily level of jabs.

 

[MikeWM]

Doesn't that cover train stations as they are boarding a train?

My assumption is that this clause is so someone can be stopped from getting on the train/bus/whatever, rather than having to wait until they get on and *then* try to throw them off...

 

[Watershed]

Doesn't that cover train stations as they are boarding a train?

No, because you aren't "boarding" the service until you step into it.

Stations are covered under their own definition and no face covering mandate exists for outdoor parts of stations.

 

[brad465]

This is an absolute shock (in a good way), a BBC comment under the article about the booster programme extension that vindicates unvaccinated people in being responsible for Omicron spreading is the 3rd highest rated:

Covid: All UK adults to be offered booster jab

Experts also recommend a second dose for 12 to 15-year-olds, in response to the Omicron variant.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Baxenden Bank]

This is an absolute shock (in a good way), a BBC comment under the article about the booster programme extension that vindicates unvaccinated people in being responsible for Omicron spreading is the 3rd highest rated:

Covid: All UK adults to be offered booster jab

Experts also recommend a second dose for 12 to 15-year-olds, in response to the Omicron variant.

www.bbc.co.uk

View attachment 106286

Well spotted.

 

[Bikeman78]

I we going to be badgered to cover up on deserted platforms again?

Some TOCs have never stopped. The PA at Tottenham Hale just made me laugh. "Spread out along the whole length of the platform." Seconds later a short formed four car Cambridge train arrives and four cars worth of people try to pack into the front carriage!

 

[brad465]

Oh great, now the WHO have come out with a "could" about Omicron posing a high risk of infection across the globe:

Omicron: WHO warns of 'high infection risk' around globe

Omicron could lead to severe consequences in some regions, the World Health Organization has warned.

www.bbc.co.uk

The World Health Organization (WHO) has warned that the Omicron coronavirus variant poses a high risk of infection surges around the globe.
The variant could lead to severe consequences in some regions, the WHO said on Monday.
The head of the organisation, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, renewed a call for a global push to get vaccines to poorer nations.
Covid-19 is "not done with us" yet he warned.
The variant was detected in South Africa earlier this month with initial evidence suggesting it has a higher re-infection risk. South Africa has been praised for its prompt reporting of the variant.
"Omicron has an unprecedented number of spike mutations, some of which are concerning for their potential impact on the trajectory of the pandemic," the WHO said.
Cases have already been reported in a number of countries including Canada, the UK, Portugal, Belgium and the Netherlands.
The new variant has prompted the UK, EU and US to issue a travel ban on Southern African countries - a decision criticised by South Africa's President Cyril Ramaphosa.
Japan has announced it is closing its borders to new foreign visitors from midnight on Tuesday, while Australia has paused its long-awaited plan to ease border restrictions.
Travel into Australia for international students and "skilled workers" holding visas was meant to re-start on Wednesday but has now been delayed until 15 December.
Israel has also banned foreigners from entering the country.

Omicron may well come to dominate, but if the reports/evidence that it's relatively mild remain strong, and/or vaccines retain good efficacy against it, then this surge in infections should not cause concern, but then that wouldn't sell stories and keep the WHO in the spotlight.

 

[21C101]

Omicron may well come to dominate, but if the reports/evidence that it's relatively mild remain strong, and/or vaccines retain good efficacy against it, then this surge in infections should not cause concern, but then that wouldn't sell stories and keep the WHO in the spotlight.

Far from causing concern, if it is highly contagious and causes mild symptoms it should be joyously and rapturously welcomed as it will both crowd out other variants and act as a natural vaccine, filling people with antibodies.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

For whatever reason, some people do not want this to end and are keen on more restrictions.

Why are people not asking these questions:
If government are re-introducing mandatory Face Coverings because this variant is more transmissable, why are they mandatory in FEWER settings than in July, when a less transmissable strain was in circulation?
If this is about protecting our health, surely the decimating effect of masks in all indoor settings to businesses is irrelevant? Don’t we have to keep EVERYONE safe ?

 

[Cowley]

Just a gentle reminder that we’re not doing the mask discussion for now.

 

[takno]

Oh great, now the WHO have come out with a "could" about Omicron posing a high risk of infection across the globe:

Omicron: WHO warns of 'high infection risk' around globe

Omicron could lead to severe consequences in some regions, the World Health Organization has warned.

www.bbc.co.uk

Omicron may well come to dominate, but if the reports/evidence that it's relatively mild remain strong, and/or vaccines retain good efficacy against it, then this surge in infections should not cause concern, but then that wouldn't sell stories and keep the WHO in the spotlight.

I think who are just desperately trying to recover from the situation they've created where Western governments are going to hold onto even more vaccine doses for even longer. As an organisation long accustomed to shooting themselves in both feet, the handling of this has been entirely typical

 

[bramling]

Why are people not asking these questions:
If government are re-introducing mandatory Face Coverings because this variant is more transmissable, why are they mandatory in FEWER settings than in July, when a less transmissable strain was in circulation?
If this is about protecting our health, surely the decimating effect of masks in all indoor settings to businesses is irrelevant? Don’t we have to keep EVERYONE safe ?

I went for a walk round town this evening. Interesting to see restaurants as busy as ever, plenty of groups round big tables. I couldn’t help wondering how many of these people will be giving dirty looks in shops come tomorrow.

I completely agree. If things are so urgent, why on earth aren’t other measures being implemented?

 

[Eyersey468]

The new regs have arrived. Hurrah :-/

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/1340/pdfs/uksi_20211340_en.pdf

As far as I can see, basically exactly the same as before, definitions, exemptions, fines, etc. So no, no legal requirement on stations as far as I can see.

They've folded in the signage requirements into this one too, which used to be in a mostly unrelated regulation. As far as I have ever read that one, it means that signs have to point out the existence of excuses and exemptions, and it is an offense if they don't.

They do expire (for now) on December 20th, so they will have to either explicitly remove or extend them in 3 weeks time. Which is something I suppose.

But does anyone really believe they will disappear then? I don't. Given Boris's history of u turns anything he says is meaningless.

 

[asw22]

A variant with so many changes to its spike protein etc must have been in circulation for a while - possibly a few months.
So given the number of flights from South Africa, Botswana etc all over the world then it is likely that it has made into community circulation already. It could be that the variant is more contagious but the symptoms less serious which would help it spread quicker without detection than some of the other variants.

There is also quite a lot of Stockholm syndrome that has been ingrained in parts of society over the past 20 months and maybe some people think the pharma money tree is helping with CO2 emissions following COP26.

Interesting that the JCVI has reduced the booster wait time down to 3 months - wondering whether the same arguments will be rolled out for further boosters on a 3 monthly basis.

 

[Cdd89]

Interesting that the JCVI has reduced the booster wait time down to 3 months

I am very pro-vaccine, but this really concerns me. It’s the first time in this entire pandemic that I’ve questioned whether the JCVI is truly acting in my best interest, as opposed to panicking under political pressure and doing something that might help against an unknown threat.

it reminds me of the significant interval cut in response to Delta, but based on far less concrete evidence.

I don’t really have time to look into it (I will eventually), but if anyone feels able to explain in a nutshell why this is better than waiting for the proven benefits of a booster at >6 months, I’d be very glad to hear it.

 

[Bungle73]

It's absolutely absurd that TOCs are giving our a "Travel with confidence" message, at the same time as telling as that their services are so dangerous that we all have to cover our faces.

 

[Towers]

It's absolutely absurd that TOCs are giving our a "Travel with confidence" message, at the same time as telling as that their services are so dangerous that we all have to cover our faces.

There really isn't a lot that the TOCs can do here; the same hapless government who are swinging an axe about and demanding that the railway pay its way, are at the same time seemingly doing their utmost to terrify people into not wanting to use public transport. The TOCs can do nothing but watch in dismay as Boris tries to torpedo their businesses.

 

[Bantamzen]

A variant with so many changes to its spike protein etc must have been in circulation for a while - possibly a few months.
So given the number of flights from South Africa, Botswana etc all over the world then it is likely that it has made into community circulation already. It could be that the variant is more contagious but the symptoms less serious which would help it spread quicker without detection than some of the other variants.

There is also quite a lot of Stockholm syndrome that has been ingrained in parts of society over the past 20 months and maybe some people think the pharma money tree is helping with CO2 emissions following COP26.

Interesting that the JCVI has reduced the booster wait time down to 3 months - wondering whether the same arguments will be rolled out for further boosters on a 3 monthly basis.

Also interesting to remember that both Pfizer & Moderna increased the cost of their vaccines in the summer, by around a third if I recall brining the cost to around £20 per shot. So if 50 million people regularly have a quarterly shot in the UK, that could mean up £4bn in sales that did not exist just a year ago, and that is just in one country.

I am very pro-vaccine, but this really concerns me. It’s the first time in this entire pandemic that I’ve questioned whether the JCVI is truly acting in my best interest, as opposed to panicking under political pressure and doing something that might help against an unknown threat.

it reminds me of the significant interval cut in response to Delta, but based on far less concrete evidence.

I don’t really have time to look into it (I will eventually), but if anyone feels able to explain in a nutshell why this is better than waiting for the proven benefits of a booster at >6 months, I’d be very glad to hear it.

There is probably very little to anybody save the absolutely most vulnerable. Unfortunately it seems that science has been put on hold, and that our immune systems which have been working perfectly well for at least 2-3 million years cannot be trusted. Instead in order to save their political skins, health services, us we must have at all times antibodies swimming about in abundance in the hope they can still "defeat the virus".

There's money in that there virus....

 

[DustyBin]

It's absolutely absurd that TOCs are giving our a "Travel with confidence" message, at the same time as telling as that their services are so dangerous that we all have to cover our faces.

You’re right it is absurd. I’ll be “travelling with confidence” by not submitting to the fear and propaganda.

There really isn't a lot that the TOCs can do here; the same hapless government who are swinging an axe about and demanding that the railway pay its way, are at the same time seemingly doing their utmost to terrify people into not wanting to use public transport. The TOCs can do nothing but watch in dismay as Boris tries to torpedo their businesses.

I’m inclined to agree with you here, although some operators (LNER in particular from my own experience) do themselves no favours whatsoever.

Also interesting to remember that both Pfizer & Moderna increased the cost of their vaccines in the summer, by around a third if I recall brining the cost to around £20 per shot. So if 50 million people regularly have a quarterly shot in the UK, that could mean up £4bn in sales that did not exist just a year ago, and that is just in one country.

It really is impossible to ignore this in my opinion. Ordinarily I would expect the majority of people to be thinking the same, but the government have managed to traumatise them to such an extent that they no longer ask questions, they just want to be kept “safe” and will accept anything in return.

There is probably very little to anybody save the absolutely most vulnerable. Unfortunately it seems that science has been put on hold, and that our immune systems which have been working perfectly well for at least 2-3 million years cannot be trusted. Instead in order to save their political skins, health services, us we must have at all times antibodies swimming about in abundance in the hope they can still "defeat the virus".

There's money in that there virus....

My trust in “the science” has gone completely; it’s now pseudoscience. I don’t say that lightly either, having a (non-medical) BSc (Hons) and an ongoing interest in science in general. Science should be discussed and challenged; that “the science” absolutely cannot be, under any circumstances, leads me to question why.

 

[Towers]

Also interesting to remember that both Pfizer & Moderna increased the cost of their vaccines in the summer, by around a third if I recall brining the cost to around £20 per shot. So if 50 million people regularly have a quarterly shot in the UK, that could mean up £4bn in sales that did not exist just a year ago, and that is just in one country.


There is probably very little to anybody save the absolutely most vulnerable. Unfortunately it seems that science has been put on hold, and that our immune systems which have been working perfectly well for at least 2-3 million years cannot be trusted. Instead in order to save their political skins, health services, us we must have at all times antibodies swimming about in abundance in the hope they can still "defeat the virus".

There's money in that there virus....

£20 a shot, yikes. Whole thing stinking more than ever.

 

[Bantamzen]

£20 a shot, yikes. Whole thing stinking more than ever.

And that's before you consider the logistics of having the capacity to administer in excess of over 200 million jabs per, every year if a 3 month regime were adopted.