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Omicron variant and the measures implemented in response to it

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duncanp

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The problem is with a "Roadmap" is that could drag on for months again. Look how long it took to progress with the last one. Should have been 4 and a half months, but turned out to be 5 and a half months due to the final stage being delayed by a month. We really don't need this happening all over again with restrictions dragging on for months on end again.

I think that the "roadmap" will be a lot shorter this time round.

The provisions of the Coronavirus Act are due to expire on March 23rd, by which time the Omicron wave should have peaked, and also the vast majority of UK adults received their booster jabs. We will also have sufficient data about how resistant the Omicron variant is to vaccines, as well as the rates of hospitalisation and death.

In these circumstances, there will be no justification whatsoever for extending the powers of the Coronavirus Act any further. Also, as we found out last year, the Spring and the Summer are the best time for releasing restrictions.
 
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Smidster

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The big question right now is whether we can get to Christmas without any more restrictions - frankly I doubt it.

If we get to Christmas then by the time the New Year rolls around we will have a pretty good level of population immunity, one way or the other, and we will have good data on what is happening in hospitals.

Unfortunately I don't think we have a hope of that - Don't forget Parliament goes into Recess on Thursday until January 5th so they would face no questioning at all over that period. I would bet on a PM press conference on Thursday - hope I am wrong.

My one slight hope is that the Public don't seem quite as "on board" as they were last time round - Not as many seem to be going into hiding.
 

DelayRepay

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I think that the "roadmap" will be a lot shorter this time round.

The provisions of the Coronavirus Act are due to expire on March 23rd, by which time the Omicron wave should have peaked, and also the vast majority of UK adults received their booster jabs. We will also have sufficient data about how resistant the Omicron variant is to vaccines, as well as the rates of hospitalisation and death.

In these circumstances, there will be no justification whatsoever for extending the powers of the Coronavirus Act any further. Also, as we found out last year, the Spring and the Summer are the best time for releasing restrictions.

Unless another variant pops up, and we're spending March/April queueing up for Jab number 4.
 

duncanp

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The big question right now is whether we can get to Christmas without any more restrictions - frankly I doubt it.

If we get to Christmas then by the time the New Year rolls around we will have a pretty good level of population immunity, one way or the other, and we will have good data on what is happening in hospitals.

Unfortunately I don't think we have a hope of that - Don't forget Parliament goes into Recess on Thursday until January 5th so they would face no questioning at all over that period. I would bet on a PM press conference on Thursday - hope I am wrong.

My one slight hope is that the Public don't seem quite as "on board" as they were last time round - Not as many seem to be going into hiding.

If there is a large Conservative rebellion tonight and the Tories lose the North Shropshire by election, it will be very difficult politically for Boris Johnson to introduce new restrictions whilst Parliament is in recess.

How does the Prime Minister think MPs are going to react if they vote against vaccine passports tonight, and the government tries to force them through on the quiet during the Christmas and New Year holidays?

If the government were to try and do this, there would likely be demands for a recall of parliament, as well as a Conservative leadership challenge to Boris Johnson.

My guess is that we will have Plan B over the Christmas and New Year holidays, but Plan C, or a watered down version of it (ie. Plan B+) will be proposed in the new year.

Different versions of Plan C, and even Plan D, are being leaked to different newspapers today, in order to see what the reaction is, and also to try and bully Conservative MPs into falling in line over Plan B.
 

MikeWM

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I think that the "roadmap" will be a lot shorter this time round.

The provisions of the Coronavirus Act are due to expire on March 23rd, by which time the Omicron wave should have peaked, and also the vast majority of UK adults received their booster jabs. We will also have sufficient data about how resistant the Omicron variant is to vaccines, as well as the rates of hospitalisation and death.

In these circumstances, there will be no justification whatsoever for extending the powers of the Coronavirus Act any further. Also, as we found out last year, the Spring and the Summer are the best time for releasing restrictions.

The Coronavirus Act is largely symbolic at this point however, there's really not much left in it, most of the awful things that were in it have been lapsed already. Yes, it going away is important symbolically, but the Public Health Act 1984 will remain, which is of course the real problem, and has been ever since New Labour amended it in 2008 in a sufficiently wide way that it has allowed the government to do all the things that have happened over the past 2 years.
 

jfollows

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The Guardian comments today on the Commons Science Committee, and that there were only 11 Covid-related deaths in South Africa yesterday in particular. Given the transmissibility of the new variant, if it were as deadly as the other variants then this sad number would be expected to be much greater, more akin to the 578 weekly average reported previously (is that 578/week so 80+/day though?)
From https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...-surpass-50m-china-reports-first-omicron-case:
At the Commons science committee in the UK, Dr Angelique Coetzee, chair of the South African Medical Association, has given evidence about the impact of Omicron in South Africa.

She said Omicron was at least as transmissible as the Delta variant. She said it generally produced a mild disease.

It was different for people in hospital, she said. Most people in hospital were unvaccinated, she said. She told the MPs that they did not do genomic sequencing for most patients, so the hospital statistics did not differentiate between Delta patients and Omicron patients. But she said intensive care units were “not overwhelmed” with Covid cases.

In an article published in UK newspaper the Daily Mail today, Coetzee argues that the UK government is over-reacting. She says:

Yesterday there were only 11 Covid-related deaths in South Africa, far fewer than the 578 weekly average reported at Delta’s peak.

If Omicron really were such a deadly variant, we would expect the numbers to have shot up, yet that simply isn’t happening here.

This makes it all the more peculiar to see what’s happening in the UK. This huge over-reaction is scaring people unnecessarily, and if your government does decide go to for a hard lockdown in the new year, that could end up doing far more harm than good.
 

Simon11

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covid-sa-png.106957


Looking at google covid stats today, there has been no major increase in covid deaths in South Africa (although noting it takes a few weeks from increase in infections to realise into deaths). I have doubts about other data from South Africa due to low testing, however these statistics should be a really good indicator to trust.

How long before the penny drops in the UK?
 

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kristiang85

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Looking at google covid stats today, there has been no major increase in covid deaths in South Africa (although noting it takes a few weeks from increase in infections to realise into deaths). I have doubts about other data from South Africa due to low testing, however these statistics should be a really good indicator to trust.

How long before the penny drops in the UK?

Well some experts believe Omicron has been around in SA since September potentially. If that's true, then it really is nothing to worry about. Also note only 25% of SA is vaccinated.
 

52290

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Beginning of a screeching Mail U-Turn?

I wonder if, given that printed newspapers are disproportionally bought by the elderly, whether they have got the last weeks circulation fugures and realised that they have scared half their readers so much they are now hiding in the cupboard under the stairs at home instead of going to the Newsagent snd buying their Mail?





As an elderly person of 77 after reading yesterday's paper I was so scared I had to go and hide in a pub where I drank pints of Pedigree to calm myself down. There was a funeral party in the pub ( it's next to a churchyard) and they seemed to be enjoying themselves. I tried to eavesdrop and I'm fairly sure that it wasn't the funeral of the person who the PM said had died from Omicron. Reading today's paper I can't see any mention of this, did it really occur? Does anybody on the forum know? It caused me a lot of worry yesterday but even the BBC seem to have forgotten about it.
 

Class 33

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'We don't see a need for stricter restrictions,' says chair of South African Medical Association​

Chair of the South African Medical Association Angelique Coetzee has said the country is still on the same level of restrictions amid the surge of Omicron.
She called for people to be "responsible" by getting a vaccination, saying they still protect against the virus.
"The cases are predominately mild... we don't see a need for stricter restrictions," she said.
"People are already upset and there is no point in putting restrictions on movement because the virus is everywhere.
"Maybe in a way we need to learn how to live with this."

The chair of the South Africian Medical Association talking some sense.
 

brad465

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Most of what happens for the rest of December is already set in stone, most gatherings have been continuing, when travelling yesterday evening by train there were still plenty of commuters and pubs have still had plenty of users. Any infection spread in these environments will be seen over the next 2 weeks or so, but after that we should have even more people x3 jabbed, schools on Christmas break, and if there is a high infection level, it'll peak through running out of hosts. The question is when that arrives relative to when future restrictions could come in. The expected Tory rebellion will make trying to bring restrictions in over recess very controversial in the Tory party, so the new year is the most likely prospect.
 

jfollows

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https://twitter.com/natashaloder/status/1470691348068339716/photo/1 includes
Apparently 29% lower severity based on early data (in high seroprevalence population) and supported by anecdotal clinical feedback.
"At this point we believe there is hope that the severity is lower"
from a seminar reported by The Economist from a private health insurer Discovery Health in South Africa.
So lots of caveats, but the news isn't bad.
 

jfollows

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How do you define "severity" as a number which you can calculate percentages of?
I agree, hence why I said "apparently" ..... well, actually Natasha did also ....... I misquoted, she said "Apparent" not "Apparently", make what you will of that ......
 

duncanp

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More positive news from the Telegraph.

Now then Boris Johnson, Chris Whitty, everyone on SAGE, all the nutters on fake SAGE, and all the other assorted locktivist bores that have blighted our lives for most of the last two years, what part of

Omicron is less severe than delta variant and two Covid vaccine jabs give good protection, study suggests​


don't you understand?


Omicron is less severe than delta variant and two Covid vaccine jabs give good protection, study suggests​

First real-world study also finds that excess natural deaths are significantly lower than in previous waves

Omicron is likely to be 23 per cent less severe than delta with vaccines still offering good protection, the first major real-world study into the new variant has shown.

A study of more than 78,000 omicron cases in South Africa recorded between Nov 15 and Dec 7 also found that the Pfizer jab still offers 70 per cent protection against hospitalisation after two doses.

The research showed that, compared with the first Wuhan strain, the virus led to 29 per cent fewer admissions to hospital, with 23 per cent fewer hospital admissions compared with delta.

Far fewer people also needed intensive care from omicron, with just five per cent of cases admitted to ICU compared with 22 per cent of delta patients.

Experts at Discovery Health, South Africa’s largest private health insurer, who compiled the data, said that although there were high numbers of breakthrough infections in people who had been vaccinated, cases appeared to be less severe, which they said was also backed up by anecdotal evidence from doctors on the ground

Speaking at a briefing on Tuesday morning, Ryan Noach, the chief executive officer at Discovery Health, said: “You can see very clearly that in this omicron way the adult population has a 29 per cent lower risk of admission.

“If you look at the proportion of patients admitted to high care in ICU for severe illness, across the first three waves, the proportion of patients in high care and ICU collectively exceeds 30 per cent, goes up to 35 per cent, whereas you can see in this omicron period, only about 13 per cent.

“So the data is correlating with the anecdotal feedback. And so it's this early point we believe there is hope that the severity is lower.

“What is clear is that vaccinated individuals are experiencing milder infections in general. We are hearing it’s primarily the unvaccinated that are requiring admission and oxygen in hospital.

“You can see that the excess natural deaths are still significantly lower than in previous waves, despite the rapid growth in the number of infections during this omicron period.”

The study also found that children were much less likely to test positive than adults but that they were at a 20 per cent greater risk of hospitalisation. However, most cases in children were mild, with symptoms such as a sore throat, nasal congestion and fever resolving in two to three days.
Discovery Health also teamed up with the South Africa Medical Research Council (SAMRC) to provide real-world insights into the Pfizer- BionTech vaccine effectiveness against omicron.
They found that effectiveness against infection dropped from 80 per cent to 33 per cent but offered 70 per cent protection against hospital admissions, which was maintained across age groups and chronic conditions. At the time of the study there had been no deaths.

'Heartening and encouraging results'​

Prof Glenda Geray of SAMRC said: “ I think it's very heartening to see these results and release that vaccine effectiveness is still greater than 50 per cent. And so I think it's encouraging and again, the issue of boosting strategy may also mitigate the reduction in vaccine effectiveness.
“Vaccination is the single most important intervention. It is true we are seeing a linkage between the infections we are seeing and hospitilisations. The question is, is this due to a less virulent virus, or is this due to high levels of prior infection and vaccination?
“I think it’s too early for us to make that call but we can say that prior infection and vaccination are impacting on the reduction of admission and serious illness. And we’re seeing a shorter duration in hospitalisation. People who have been vaccinated are staying in hospital just 2.4 days.
“Most people who are in hospital are unvaccinated. We should be cautiously optimistic but we should continue to be vigilant.”

The study also showed that the odds of reinfection were lower than during Delta, suggesting that people who have suffered a delta infection may be better protected.

The researchers said that although excess natural deaths had increased in South Africa in recent weeks, they were still significantly lower than in previous waves.
 

jfollows

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BBC caveats per WHO (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-59646151)
  • Relatively small sample size
  • Most admissions of people under 40
  • Later admissions which shift the age of admission may change the clinical profile
  • SA tests everyone admitted, so a case may show up because the admission was for an unrelated reason
Essentially WHO is warning of the need for caution in interpreting the early results, which is correct, but equally doesn't mean that the "better" implications being drawn from them are necessarily wrong, just unjustified at this stage.

EDIT Per Sajid Javid just now, around 20% of people admitted to hospital in England who test positive to Covid-19 were not admitted because of their Covid-19 symptoms but for other reasons. So this can distort or skew the numbers of people reported as being "in hospital with Covid-19".
 
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duncanp

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BBC caveats per WHO (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-59646151)
  • Relatively small sample size
  • Most admissions of people under 40
  • Later admissions which shift the age of admission may change the clinical profile
  • SA tests everyone admitted, so a case may show up because the admission was for an unrelated reason
Essentially WHO is warning of the need for caution in interpreting the early results, which is correct, but equally doesn't mean that the "better" implications being drawn from them are necessarily wrong, just unjustified at this stage.

I accept the point that most admissions in South Africa are under the age of 40, but in the UK 75% of over 40s have had their booster jab, and this percentage is increasing all the time.

We know that the booster jab gives a decent level of protection against Omicron, so this can only have a positive effect on the figures, in terms of reducing severe illness, hospitalisations and deaths.
 

Chris125

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This is the thread you want to read, with all the relevant slides: https://twitter.com/miamalan/status/1470684351151157252

These slides on the vaccines are the most eye catching to me:

20. Two shots of #Pfizer continues to provide good protection @ hospitalisation, but protection has dropped from 93% with #Delta to 70% with #Omicron.

Two Pfizer doses - roughly 70% protection against hospitalisation with Omicron, down from 93% with Delta.

5. Protection of 2 doses of #Pfizer @ hospital admission due to #Omicron is maintained across all ages (18-79 years), but slightly lower for older age groups:
18-29: 92%
30-39: 75%
40-49: 82%
50-59: 74%
60-69: 67%
70-79: 59%

6. Important to note that the lower protection (down from 93% to 70%) against hospitalisation because of #Omicron could be because older people were vaccinated first in SA, so there has been a longer period for vaccine-derived immunity to wane than with younger age groups

...but it declines with age/time since vaccination. I think we can be reasonably confident boosters get that back in the 90s?

8. What about the risk of hospitalisation due to #Omicron infection compared to the variant (D614G) which dominated SA’s 1st #COVID wave?

Adults (18+) infected with #Omicron = 29% less likely to be hospitalised vs. infection with other variants

Adults 29% less likely to be hospitalised than their first wave. So it IS milder...

9. What are confounding factors for #Omicron real-life hospital admission data in SA?
High seroprevalence #SARS-CoV2 antibody levels in SA population (so antibodies due to previous #COVID19 infection) - in Gauteng = as high as 70% + of people

...but a significant majority in South Africa have already been infected and/or vaccinated, which may - at least partially - explain this.

Hospital data looks good but still want to wait a little longer to see how cases in older age groups effect it, overall relatively reassuring IMO - it's going to be an interesting few weeks and boosters are clearly required but it could be much worse.
 
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Nicholas Lewis

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The chair of the South Africian Medical Association talking some sense.
She was attending (via video) the Science and Technology Committee this morning. I like Greg Clarke question how many NPI have you changed since Omicron arrived.
Mind you they do have curfews in place already so maybe we should be grateful we are largely only talking about masks.

Anyhow hopefully the UK government will take note and reflect that a more balanced view is needed after plan B is implemented (its going to gt through with Labour)
 

DustyBin

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EDIT Per Sajid Javid just now, around 20% of people admitted to hospital in England who test positive to Covid-19 were not admitted because of their Covid-19 symptoms but for other reasons. So this can distort or skew the numbers of people reported as being "in hospital with Covid-19".

To that 20% you can add the significant number who contract it in hospital, who are also therefore not covid admissions in the true sense.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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To that 20% you can add the significant number who contract it in hospital, who are also therefore not covid admissions in the true sense.
NHS England provide 3 counts for hospitalisation on Mon-Fri but the Covid dashboard uses the worst case figure which includes people who are subsequently diagnosed between 3-7 days after admission which why on the dashboard there is several days lag on reported data.

The fact is though hospitalisation rates have ticked up in England over the last week but then so have cases which is reasonably reliably forward indicator but then also we are in the peak period for respiratory infections anyhow. The other thing that is never reported is the the turnover of patients ie how long they actually stay in hospital and that has been declining all year.
 

21C101

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More positive news from the Telegraph.

Now then Boris Johnson, Chris Whitty, everyone on SAGE, all the nutters on fake SAGE, and all the other assorted locktivist bores that have blighted our lives for most of the last two years, what part of



don't you understand?

I suspect a good way of catching Covid is to stand in the cold and rain for four hours waiting for an unnecessary booster jab leaving you with a chill-impaired immune system for the next week which any passing spiky virus can take advantage of.
 

DustyBin

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NHS England provide 3 counts for hospitalisation on Mon-Fri but the Covid dashboard uses the worst case figure which includes people who are subsequently diagnosed between 3-7 days after admission which why on the dashboard there is several days lag on reported data.

The fact is though hospitalisation rates have ticked up in England over the last week but then so have cases which is reasonably reliably forward indicator but then also we are in the peak period for respiratory infections anyhow. The other thing that is never reported is the the turnover of patients ie how long they actually stay in hospital and that has been declining all year.

Thanks for the link, very useful.

Your final point is a good one and is something we’ve discussed on here before.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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This is the thread you want to read, with all the relevant slides: https://twitter.com/miamalan/status/1470684351151157252
These slides on the vaccines are the most eye catching to me:


Two Pfizer doses - roughly 70% protection against hospitalisation with Omicron, down from 93% with Delta....but it declines with age/time since vaccination.
I note that the above only makes mention of two Pfizer doses. What is the stated official situation for people like me at the age of 76, who had both the referred-to two Pfizer doses, plus a Pfizer booster dose, which was said to increase the protection?
 

greyman42

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We seem to have been a day or so behind Scotland on many occasions (although passports and masks took a while longer).

Scotland advising to reduce contact to three households
So is Plan C just speculation?
 

DustyBin

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I see Norway has banned the sale of alcohol in hospitality for four weeks. You just know that Mrs Murrell is dying to do the same!
 

duncanp

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Officially. If it looks too much like pushing vaccines is the real agenda, then I'm out.

<ducks for cover>

There are a lot of threats about Plan C and Plan D (of which I have seen several different versions), and a "huge wave of Omicron", just to get Conservative MPs to vote for Plan B.

If there are further restrictions in the new year, they will probably look something like what Nicola Sturgeon has just announced for Scotland - it would be difficult for Boris Johnson to justify going further.
 
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