Omicron variant and the measures implemented in response to it

[Shrop]

That’s an absolutely outrageous thing to say in my opinion. So we should be grateful we’re not living in a evil dictatorship which places zero value on human life? Talk about the lowest common denominator.

It also suggests you have zero understanding of mental health issues.

You say China has an evil dictatorship which places zero value on human life, I think there is a fair bit of misconception here. Of course I understand that their regime seems harsh in comparison with ours, and in many ways it certainly is, but I did learn a fair bit when I went there a few years ago.

As I understand it, their culture tends to place more emphasis on their country than on the individual. I won't try to expand on that point here as that would just provide ammunition to be used against me, but I will say a couple of things.

I asked people over there about building their high speed railways, as I'd heard that if houses were in the way, the owners would be given a derisory price and woe betide them if they refused. I was told (more than once) that in practice people were generally offered around 20% above market value. Yes, there were problems if they refused, but the derisory price seems to have been just a rumour spread by outsiders to the country. It also means that their rail companies don't waste vast sums of money having to fight landowners and environmentalists in court for months or even years on end.

A completely separate situation was when I saw people walking down the street and blowing their noses on to the pavement, which seemed pretty vulgar. Our guide explained that in fact the Chinese like to get rid of things from their noses, and they actually think it's vulgar of westerners to blow it into something which they then carry around with them for the rest of the day.

It's a different approach to life and I'm not saying I like it, but perhaps we shouldn't just presume them to be evil.

 

[takno]

You say China has an evil dictatorship which places zero value on human life, I think there is a fair bit of misconception here. Of course I understand that their regime seems harsh in comparison with ours, and in many ways it certainly is, but I did learn a fair bit when I went there a few years ago.

As I understand it, their culture tends to place more emphasis on their country than on the individual. I won't try to expand on that point here as that would just provide ammunition to be used against me, but I will say a couple of things.

I asked people over there about building their high speed railways, as I'd heard that if houses were in the way, the owners would be given a derisory price and woe betide them if they refused. I was told (more than once) that in practice people were generally offered around 20% above market value. Yes, there were problems if they refused, but the derisory price seems to have been just a rumour spread by outsiders to the country. It also means that their rail companies don't waste vast sums of money having to fight landowners and environmentalists in court for months or even years on end.

A completely separate situation was when I saw people walking down the street and blowing their noses on to the pavement, which seemed pretty vulgar. Our guide explained that in fact the Chinese like to get rid of things from their noses, and they actually think it's vulgar of westerners to blow it into something which they then carry around with them for the rest of the day.

It's a different approach to life and I'm not saying I like it, but perhaps we shouldn't just presume them to be evil.

I don't think anybody is accusing the Chinese people of being evil, but it's hard to look at their government and argue that things are going *well*

 

[Shrop]

I don't think anybody is accusing the Chinese people of being evil, but it's hard to look at their government and argue that things are going *well*

If you look at the quote from 43066, "evil" was certainly mentioned. And yes, things in China might not be going well, but then they might argue that our death and rate is massively worse than theirs is ...

 

[NorthKent1989]

Thanks for this, it confirms more or less what I'd already heard about their methods. It does make one wonder though, about people in the UK who complain about mental health concerns due to lockdowns - compared to China a lot of Brits just don't know when they're well off.

I expect to get slated by some for this comment, but when you know people who work in hospitals and what they have to go through to protect (and save) others, and you also hear people complaining about how stressful it is for them to wear a facemask, it does make me think of this ...

View attachment 108099

(and yes, I know there are some with genuine reasons not to etc.)

Sigh…..sad to see people choosing to not understand or empathise with mental health issues

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Sigh…..sad to see people choosing to not understand or empathise with mental health issues

Would that also apply to the Government in respect to Covid-19 restrictions?

 

[Shrop]

Sigh…..sad to see people choosing to not understand or empathise with mental health issues

Oh believe me I do, I just think that some people play on them a bit

 

[NorthKent1989]

Would that also apply to the Government in respect to Covid-19 restrictions?

What do you mean exactly? The restrictions have caused or exacerbated mental health issues

Oh believe me I do, I just think that some people play on them a bit

That’s not up to you to say that though, it’s that attitude that makes people decide not to open up

 

[Eyersey468]

I don't want to impose my will on anyone, I simply don't want to be coerced under threat of law to do things that before the pandemic we specifically advised against, without any evidence that the measures work, their harms are outweighed by the benefits, and clear analysis showing that they are the least restrictive means possible.

Hear hear

 

[NorthKent1989]

I find it ironic that those who argue for "liberty" and "freedom" are absolutely certain they are right and everyone else is wrong. They seem willing to impose their will on those who don't agree with them, irrespective of any potential downside. To me that's irrational behaviour.

Well to be honest, those who value freedoms have been pretty spot on so far in terms of how in 2020 they predicted vaccine passports and the fact that two jabs would never be enough, unlike the pro restrictions crowd who have only cried Wolf at every time.

What I find more ironic is how some in pro restrictions crowd use the hashtag bekind yet they themselves are utterly unkind to those with a different viewpoint.

I don't want to impose my will on anyone, I simply don't want to be coerced under threat of law to do things that before the pandemic we specifically advised against, without any evidence that the measures work, their harms are outweighed by the benefits, and clear analysis showing that they are the least restrictive means possible.

Spot on!

 

[Spamcan81]

If you look at the quote from 43066, "evil" was certainly mentioned. And yes, things in China might not be going well, but then they might argue that our death and rate is massively worse than theirs is ...

Like the Chinese government would publish figures showing them in a bad light. I've been to China several times and have seen how they work and I doubt very much that they would ever admit to anything that involved loss of face.

 

[Shrop]

Like the Chinese government would publish figures showing them in a bad light. I've been to China several times and have seen how they work and I doubt very much that they would ever admit to anything that involved loss of face.

I think you're absolutely right, but they would probably still be correct if they said our death rate is worse than theirs.

 

[yorksrob]

Thanks for this, it confirms more or less what I'd already heard about their methods. It does make one wonder though, about people in the UK who complain about mental health concerns due to lockdowns - compared to China a lot of Brits just don't know when they're well off.

I expect to get slated by some for this comment, but when you know people who work in hospitals and what they have to go through to protect (and save) others, and you also hear people complaining about how stressful it is for them to wear a facemask, it does make me think of this ...

View attachment 108099

(and yes, I know there are some with genuine reasons not to etc.)

I think that just because another country is extremely badly governed, that doesn't mean that we should be somehow grateful and stop scrutinising the governance of our own country.

In terms of the poster, I will moan when I decide to moan.

You say China has an evil dictatorship which places zero value on human life, I think there is a fair bit of misconception here. Of course I understand that their regime seems harsh in comparison with ours, and in many ways it certainly is, but I did learn a fair bit when I went there a few years ago.

As I understand it, their culture tends to place more emphasis on their country than on the individual. I won't try to expand on that point here as that would just provide ammunition to be used against me, but I will say a couple of things.

I asked people over there about building their high speed railways, as I'd heard that if houses were in the way, the owners would be given a derisory price and woe betide them if they refused. I was told (more than once) that in practice people were generally offered around 20% above market value. Yes, there were problems if they refused, but the derisory price seems to have been just a rumour spread by outsiders to the country. It also means that their rail companies don't waste vast sums of money having to fight landowners and environmentalists in court for months or even years on end.

A completely separate situation was when I saw people walking down the street and blowing their noses on to the pavement, which seemed pretty vulgar. Our guide explained that in fact the Chinese like to get rid of things from their noses, and they actually think it's vulgar of westerners to blow it into something which they then carry around with them for the rest of the day.

It's a different approach to life and I'm not saying I like it, but perhaps we shouldn't just presume them to be evil.

Put it this way, fear of the dictatorial regime probably contributed local officials covering up the initial COVID outbreak, which contributed to it leaking into the outside world.

 

[initiation]

Meanwhile it is clear from the data that England's reckless approach since July 19th has meant the devolved nations are doing significantly better.... Oh wait, they are not...

 

[Ian1971]

Some well-known Covid-19 connected faces in the New Years Honours List who saw much televisual coverage in 2021.

Your point is?
Those who have been honoured have given huge amounts of effort and time in the fight against the virus and efforts to prevent even more than the horrific level of deaths than we have seen
Many have suffered personal abuse and death threats https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...g-tidal-waves-of-abuse?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
They are hugely deserving of their awards which in reality have little to no financial value

 

[farleigh]

Your point is?
Those who have been honoured have given huge amounts of effort and time in the fight against the virus and efforts to prevent even more than the horrific level of deaths than we have seen
Many have suffered personal abuse and death threats https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...g-tidal-waves-of-abuse?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
They are hugely deserving of their awards which in reality have little to no financial value

I agree that many are deserving of awards of no value

 

[yorksrob]

Meanwhile it is clear from the data that England's reckless approach since July 19th has meant the devolved nations are doing significantly better.... Oh wait, they are not...
View attachment 108128

It's interesting and valuable to see different approaches compared. In many ways the UK is ideally suited to make this comparison regarding different measures, as the populations of the four Nations are very similar in all other respects.

 

[D1537]

What organisations currently insist on their staff taking one or two such tests per week? Care home assistants are one that I can name.

Teachers and other school staff are advised to, which is probably logical given that they're mixing with up to 100+ pupils a day.

I see masks are back in classrooms ...

Schools in England told to wear masks in class as fears mount of Omicron surge

Advice to secondary schools issued amid concerns over new term spike in Covid cases and Keir Starmer calls for more test kits

www.theguardian.com

 

[AlterEgo]

Meanwhile it is clear from the data that England's reckless approach since July 19th has meant the devolved nations are doing significantly better.... Oh wait, they are not...
View attachment 108128

It’s almost like there are no public interventions other than vaccines which make any meaningful difference to human suffering under the virus. It’s time for them all to go, and in the meantime, get vaccinated.

 

[GC class B1]

I spoke to a lady yesterday while out for a walk. She told me her four sons had all had cold like symptoms of what they believed to be Omicron. Two of her sons had had two doses of the vaccine and the other two were unvaccinated but all had mild symptoms and there was no obvious difference between those who had been vaccinated and those who hadn’t. This supports the view that Omicron is mild and that this is not only because of the effects of vaccination.

 

[takno]

I spoke to a lady yesterday while out for a walk. She told me her four sons had all had cold like symptoms of what they believed to be Omicron. Two of her sons had had two doses of the vaccine and the other two were unvaccinated but all had mild symptoms and there was no obvious difference between those who had been vaccinated and those who hadn’t. This supports the view that Omicron is mild and that this is not only because of the effects of vaccination.

Very few children have had more than mild effects from any of the variants. This is the key reason why vaccinating them in the first place was controversial. The fact that they all caught it somewhat supports the view that Omicron has rendered child vaccination for Covid even more pointless than it already was

 

[GC class B1]

Very few children have had more than mild effects from any of the variants. This is the key reason why vaccinating them in the first place was controversial. The fact that they all caught it somewhat supports the view that Omicron has rendered child vaccination for Covid even more pointless than it already was

The lady’s four sons are all adults. She was with her grandson.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I spoke to a lady yesterday while out for a walk. She told me her four sons had all had cold like symptoms of what they believed to be Omicron.

Cold-like symptoms are usually the effect of the common cold, should anyone have forgotten that fact. Why did they believe those symptoms were anything else?

 

[DustyBin]

Cold-like symptoms are usually the effect of the common cold, should anyone have forgotten that fact. Why did they believe those symptoms were anything else?

To be fair we were told a week or two ago that if you had cold-like symptoms it’s “probably Omicron”.

Anecdotally my Fiancée tested positive yesterday and has largely (mild) cold-like symptoms as do I.

 

[kristiang85]

Cold-like symptoms are usually the effect of the common cold, should anyone have forgotten that fact. Why did they believe those symptoms were anything else?

Good question. Which pretty much shows that, given how common omicron now is, and it has cold symptoms, I would say we have reached the point that we can call it a cold.

In the past we didn't care if our cold was rhinovirus, coronavirus or mild influenza. So we need to stop this expensive and invasive testing and reset the NHS priorities.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

To be fair we were told a week or two ago that if you had cold-like symptoms it’s “probably Omicron”.

Anecdotally my Fiancée tested positive yesterday and has largely (mild) cold-like symptoms as do I.

The common cold has had many variants and there is no reason whatsoever to suppose that it is still not here in its favourite season of mid-winter.

Before Covid-19 arrived, people were affected by the common cold in different ways from mild to severe and for years, exhortations were made to the public at large to have their injections if they were likely sufferers.

 

[Peterthegreat]

The common cold has had many variants and there is no reason whatsoever to suppose that it is still not here in its favourite season of mid-winter.

Before Covid-19 arrived, people were affected by the common cold in different ways from mild to severe and for years, exhortations were made to the public at large to have their injections if they were likely sufferers.

To the best of my knowledge there is no injection for the common cold, only flu.

 

[DustyBin]

The common cold has had many variants and there is no reason whatsoever to suppose that it is still not here in its favourite season of mid-winter.

Before Covid-19 arrived, people were affected by the common cold in different ways from mild to severe and for years, exhortations were made to the public at large to have their injections if they were likely sufferers.

If the point you’re making is that SARS‑CoV‑2 is evolving (or has evolved) to become another cause of the common cold I agree with you, and we need to start treating it as such.

 

[GC class B1]

Cold-like symptoms are usually the effect of the common cold, should anyone have forgotten that fact. Why did they believe those symptoms were anything else?

I think they tested positive.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think they tested positive.

Posting # 3,139 stated that two of the lady's four sons had been vaccinated and the other two had not been vaccinated

 

[adc82140]

Cold-like symptoms are usually the effect of the common cold, should anyone have forgotten that fact. Why did they believe those symptoms were anything else?

There is no such disease as the "common cold". The common cold is a set of symptoms that have many different causes, including 4 (I believe) human coronaviruses and any number of rhinoviruses. Sars Cov2 will just become the 5th common cold causing coronavirus.