Wigan-Bolton electrification. Construction updates only please

[Nicholas Lewis]

No different to any work site other than scale of operation over the last 25 years or so. Co-ordination, Planning and Communication.

and a will between different contractors to collaborate which can't be taken as read when NRs imposed so much pressure on not overrunning possessions that contractors can have introverted thinking which can prevent the most efficient use being made of the possession. Im not sure what the arrangements are on this project though but given the relatively short length of the project and high number of possessions required for civil works should be plenty of opportunities to get supporting works completed.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

It is also such a short section that pre-planned well in advance Rail Replacement busses should be relatively easy one would have thought.

 

[hwl]

It is also such a short section that pre-planned well in advance Rail Replacement busses should be relatively easy one would have thought.

Unique in that respect for a recent scheme south of the Border

 

[Gricer99]

Any idea when the piling around Hindley will be scheduled for?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Any idea when the piling around Hindley will be scheduled for?

I would have thought it was way too early in the project for that. I would be very pleasantly surprised if it started in 2022.

 

[Gricer99]

I trust they will give people living near the line some proper advance notice of the dates they are piling close to their homes?
Hopefully not just a three month period either!

 

[Elecman]

Given the relatively short distance im surprised it’s not being done in a complete Blockade, cheaper and quicker once all the ground investigations are complete so piling could be done during the day.given Northern aren’t taking and franchise financial risk now then no need for compensation payments for the line blockages.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Indeed. Get all bridge work and platform lengthening ground surveys done. Blockade and get all piling done during the day but use the blockade to do work at nighttime that is much less noisy. Rinses and repeat for steelwork erection. Rinse and repeat for SPS installation. Rinse and repeat for wiring.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Given the relatively short distance im surprised it’s not being done in a complete Blockade, cheaper and quicker once all the ground investigations are complete so piling could be done during the day.given Northern aren’t taking and franchise financial risk now then no need for compensation payments for the line blockages.

Agreed and if there was a full on national programme would also allow resources to effectively utilised and get the wires up quicker but no sign of that coming currently.

Indeed. Get all bridge work and platform lengthening ground surveys done. Blockade and get all piling done during the day but use the blockade to do work at nighttime that is much less noisy. Rinses and repeat for steelwork erection. Rinse and repeat for SPS installation. Rinse and repeat for wiring.

Ditto

 

[Class 170101]

I think blockades are the only way to get costs back to where the govenment wants them, realistic or otherwise.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I think blockades are the only way to get costs back to where the government wants them, realistic or otherwise.

I agree they (blockades) are a good way - if they are the ONLY way I am not as sure of. Shutting down at say 22.00 on a Friday evening and opening up again at 05.00 on a Monday morning over a few weekends advertised and announced well in advance with a good RRB service could get a huge amount done.

 

[furnessvale]

I agree they (blockades) are a good way - if they are the ONLY way I am not as sure of. Shutting down at say 22.00 on a Friday evening and opening up again at 05.00 on a Monday morning over a few weekends advertised and announced well in advance with a good RRB service could get a huge amount done.

I would prefer to see RAIL diversions wherever a route is available NOT busses because they suit the operator.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I would prefer to see RAIL diversions wherever a route is available NOT busses because they suit the operator.

Oh me too trust me - but I am trying to be realistic also.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I agree they (blockades) are a good way - if they are the ONLY way I am not as sure of. Shutting down at say 22.00 on a Friday evening and opening up again at 05.00 on a Monday morning over a few weekends advertised and announced well in advance with a good RRB service could get a huge amount done.

Thats a possession a blockade is really something in excess of a 4 day Easter closure in my book.

A route of this length could be dealt with in 3 months although would need several months to stockpile sufficient materials but would considerably lower the cost.

 

[furnessvale]

Oh me too trust me - but I am trying to be realistic also.

To me, it is unrealistic of Network Rail/TOCs etc to bustitute on long blockades where a diversionary route is available.

 

[zwk500]

To me, it is unrealistic of Network Rail/TOCs etc to bustitute on long blockades where a diversionary route is available.

The diversionary route from Wigan to Bolton and Manchester is available through existing trains, changing at Preston (or Warrington/Earlestown). If the Atherton line remains open, those trains can also be used. Why run additional trains in areas of congested capacity when there are existing services that cover the options?

 

[furnessvale]

The diversionary route from Wigan to Bolton and Manchester is available through existing trains, changing at Preston (or Warrington/Earlestown). If the Atherton line remains open, those trains can also be used. Why run additional trains in areas of congested capacity when there are existing services that cover the options?

In this particular case the rail alternative IS available, but in other cases buses are run for many miles where a reasonable rail diversion would be available. This is purely for the convenience of the rail industry. As in so many walks of life, they know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

 

[zwk500]

In this particular case the rail alternative IS available, but in other cases buses are run for many miles where a reasonable rail diversion would be available. This is purely for the convenience of the rail industry. As in so many walks of life, they know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

A diverted train is only of limited value to passengers between Wigan and Bolton. It is of negative value to passengers at Preston, Wigan NW, Manchester Victoria etc as trains are out of place and have to work with the diverts. You are more aware than most that the railway must look to all it's passengers and customers, not just those on one line. The best option to me would seem to be ticket acceptance on alternative trains via Preston or Eccles for the duration of a blockade, so that passengers are not financially impacted by the longer route.

 

[furnessvale]

A diverted train is only of limited value to passengers between Wigan and Bolton. It is of negative value to passengers at Preston, Wigan NW, Manchester Victoria etc as trains are out of place and have to work with the diverts. You are more aware than most that the railway must look to all it's passengers and customers, not just those on one line. The best option to me would seem to be ticket acceptance on alternative trains via Preston or Eccles for the duration of a blockade, so that passengers are not financially impacted by the longer route.

Correct for this particular line.

 

[td97]

TheGNRP shared this image of the Westhoughton overbridge removal earlier
https://twitter.com/TheGNRP/

 

[WAO]

Why was this bridge reinstated?

It seems to serve a barn, (through a housing estate!) which could also be accessed from the A6.

Might not the farmer and residents have preferred just a better track to Manchester Road?.

WAO

 

[Mollman]

Why was this bridge reinstated?

It seems to serve a barn, (through a housing estate!) which could also be accessed from the A6.

Might not the farmer and residents have preferred just a better track to Manchester Road?.

WAO

There doesn't appear to be a suitable route for road access to the barn from the A6 direction. The bridge is also a public bridleway.

 

[WAO]

There looks to be only derelict land between the barn and Slack Lane, with a possible track on GE.

There does look to be a RRV access to a trackside site however so perhaps NR wants the bridge for its own purposes. Either way it doesn't quite look like value engineering, at £2.3M.

WAO

 

[Bald Rick]

Why was this bridge reinstated?

It seems to serve a barn, (through a housing estate!) which could also be accessed from the A6.

Might not the farmer and residents have preferred just a better track to Manchester Road?.

WAO

it’s a farm, with a public bridleway to boot. £2.3m is actually pretty cheap, especially given the bridge looks to be approaching life expiry.

 

[The Planner]

Given the relatively short distance im surprised it’s not being done in a complete Blockade, cheaper and quicker once all the ground investigations are complete so piling could be done during the day.given Northern aren’t taking and franchise financial risk now then no need for compensation payments for the line blockages.

Incorrect I am afraid. Schedule 4 would still be payable as its part of their track access contract.

 

[Elecman]

Incorrect I am afraid. Schedule 4 would still be payable as its part of their track access contract.

That’s my point. schedule 4 is now pointless as DfT take all financial risk now and are NR/s paymaster

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

That’s my point. schedule 4 is now pointless as DfT take all financial risk now and are NR/s paymaster

Totally correct although I suspect the cost for the rebuilding the bridge includes Sch4 as that was policy for CAPEX works when i was still at NR. So if its still does, albeit probably not that a high cost on this route, its inflating the costs unnecessarily in todays railway. Yes its appropriate to charge marginal costs over running trains, if there are any, of running RRB but nothing more.

 

[Bald Rick]

I’d be surprised if Schedule 4 compensation for that closure reached 5 figures.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I’d be surprised if Schedule 4 compensation for that closure reached 5 figures.

I did say unlikely to be high on this route but on other busier routes it will be so all it does is inflate costs.

As designed Sch4 was supposed to incentivise NR to reduce the amount of possessions it needed but it never did well not in my route and there was a game to played recharging CAPEX projects to make it look as though operating costs had been reduced.

 

[The Planner]

That’s my point. schedule 4 is now pointless as DfT take all financial risk now and are NR/s paymaster

It might be shuffling cash, but if NR block the line then they still pay Northern compensation regardless of the bank account it ends up in.

I’d be surprised if Schedule 4 compensation for that closure reached 5 figures.

It probably wouldn't, there is a somewhat marked difference to cancelling a Northern service to an Avanti from what I have seen!