Greater Anglia makes further changes to its weekday timetable (from 10th January 2022)

[dk1]

Certainly not on the GEML which was operating at maximum capacity south of Shenfield with 12 car trains at the height of the peak.

Except with Intercity services. They had wasted space taken up with the loco & DVT.

 

[Bald Rick]

And the result of a survey will depend on the question asked. The standard public reaction to overcrowding tends to be “Why don’t they run more trains / put more carriages on?” rather than “why don’t they pack more seats into the carriages they’re already running?”
Yes, I know that isn’t going to work everywhere…..

The question asked was, effectively, “what is your priority for the train service in Anglia”, and one of the most common responses was “to be able to get a seat”.

 

[iphone76]

For anyone who uses the service, be careful. On the Southend line, we were promised a 20 minute all day service from today and it was indicated in the spreadsheets they uploaded on the website.

During the off peak period it's still a half hourly service towards London, and a 20/40 minute service away from London. So during the day it's actually worse than before if you just miss the xx55 departure from London.

Not sure if they've done the same on the mainline/ West Anglia side.

 

[dk1]

For anyone who uses the service, be careful. On the Southend line, we were promised a 20 minute all day service from today and it was indicated in the spreadsheets they uploaded on the website.

During the off peak period it's still a half hourly service towards London, and a 20/40 minute service away from London. So during the day it's actually worse than before if you just miss the xx55 departure from London.

Not sure if they've done the same on the mainline/ West Anglia side.

Even interval full half hourly frequency on Norwich Intercity off-peak.

 

[iphone76]

Even interval full half hourly frequency on Norwich Intercity off-peak.

Thank you. I am heading upto Norwich later in the week so that is good to know. I am so glad a friend messaged me as I checked the spreadsheet on the website and presumed it would be correct. The irony is I would have been late to drive a train on the Shenfield metro service if I had trusted that.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Beware of short forms! Today 7th the 11.00 Liverpool Street to Norwich is formed of 755 413 solo...!!!

 

[Wivenswold]

Is the transfer of the remaining 745/1s to the GEML, that was mentioned on here last summer, still on the cards? If so, I wonder whether that will be last piece of the jigsaw coinciding with the withdrawal of the Renatus fleet.

 

[dk1]

Is the transfer of the remaining 745/1s to the GEML still on the cards? If so, I wonder whether that will be last piece of the jigsaw coinciding with the withdrawal of the Renatus fleet.

All gone very quiet in that front.

 

[andystock22]

Sounds like there was a number of 5 car class 720s services on the Southend line tonight, which lead to major overcrowding.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Sounds like there was a number of 5 car class 720s services on the Southend line tonight, which lead to major overcrowding.

There were at least three single 720s out on the main line during the four hours I was around today ( roughly 11.00 to 15.00 ), which were on both Braintree and Southend services. The majority of services were 10 cars, but there also appeared to be more 321 diagrams than a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Wivenswold]

All gone very quiet in that front.

Thanks, I guess priorities are elsewhere at the moment with the slow drip of Aventras. Who knows, maybe they're being given 2 diesel packs each in order to work through to Norwich via Cambridge.

I'm joking before anyone quotes that elsewhere.

 

[dk1]

Thanks, I guess priorities are elsewhere at the moment with the slow drip of Aventras. Who knows, maybe they're being given 2 diesel packs each in order to work through to Norwich via Cambridge.

I'm joking before anyone quotes that elsewhere.

Haha, that wouldn’t be a bad thing considering the overcrowding experienced some weekends recently on that route.

 

[Bikeman78]

Sounds like there was a number of 5 car class 720s services on the Southend line tonight, which lead to major overcrowding.

Doesn't surprise me. Some pairs of dusty bins were full and standing from Stratford to Shenfield autumn last year. That was on a 10 minute peak frequency so a single 720 on a 20 minute frequency would be worse.

 

[andystock22]

It would again appear that Greater Anglia do not have enough available trains top operate 10 car trains at rush hour. Reports that the 16:33 and 16:54 Liverpool Street to Southend Vic are only 5 car trains and are completely overcrowded.

 

[JonathanH]

It would again appear that Greater Anglia do not have enough available trains top operate 10 car trains at rush hour. Reports that the 16:33 and 16:54 Liverpool Street to Southend Vic are only 5 car trains and are completely overcrowded.

The problem being of course that with only 5 and 10 as options it is difficult to get it right on all services. The 1633 does a Braintree before and an Ipswich before that. You would imagine loadings to even out as people get used to knowing which are the short trains. 1633 / 1654 are arguably shoulder peak trains.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

The problem being of course that with only 5 and 10 as options it is difficult to get it right on all services. The 1633 does a Braintree before and an Ipswich before that. You would imagine loadings to even out as people get used to knowing which are the short trains. 1633 / 1654 are arguably shoulder peak trains.

Do you really thing passengers memorise how many coaches a train is booked to have? Seems completely ridiculous to expect them to in my book. Most of them are not enthuasists, who just want to get a train home at a time convenient to them.

 

[Bikeman78]

Do you really thing passengers memorise how many coaches a train is booked to have? Seems completely ridiculous to expect them to in my book. Most of them are not enthuasists, who just want to get a train home at a time convenient to them.

To be fair, commuters are not thick. When the LTS had to ground the new class 357s they shipped in the three car class 310s that used to run in Birmingham. The commuters would spread along the whole length of the platform for a 12 car train. As soon as they saw a blue unit in the train approaching Fenchurch Street the people near the ramp would move 20 metres closer to the buffer stops.

A lot of TOCs have formations on realtime trains, though admittedly Greater Anglia does not. Hopefully they'll strengthen some more trains with the next new class 720s running than binning 317s or 321s. Makes you wonder what would have happened in January without Omicron. Chronic overcrowding is my guess.

 

[Bald Rick]

Do you really thing passengers memorise how many coaches a train is booked to have? Seems completely ridiculous to expect them to in my book.

I think it’s pretty common - has been for regular commuters wherever I have commuted (and not just me!).

for Example in the ‘old’ Thameslink days, no regular commuters ever bothered to catch the 1732 from Kings Cross Thameslink as it was always a 4 car, and always crush loaded leaving Farringdon. The only people who turned up for it were occasional travellers, often heading to Luton airport. Invariably they had to wait for the next one.

 

[JonathanH]

Do you really thing passengers memorise how many coaches a train is booked to have? Seems completely ridiculous to expect them to in my book. Most of them are not enthuasists, who just want to get a train home at a time convenient to them.

Some might be put off just enough to see if a later train has more capacity. I appreciate that not everyone has that flexibility.

 

[Alfie1014]

The problem being of course that with only 5 and 10 as options it is difficult to get it right on all services.

Well of course they should have had all (or almost all of the 133 720s) in service by now before older trains were stood down. They are getting slaughtered on Social Media at the moment as in addition to the Southend Vic problems many of the peak GEML trains this week have become 8 x 321 whereas last week they mostly all were 10 x 720s, plus the continuing lack of through services to the branches is adding to the woes. More petitions and complaints going in to MPs. Most of which is not directly their fault but the reputation of the industry’s competence is being trashed by all the short term changes.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Some might be put off just enough to see if a later train has more capacity. I appreciate that not everyone has that flexibility.

Fair enough, I'd say your probably right. Excuse my tone in previous post, realised it came across a bit agressive.

I think it’s pretty common - has been for regular commuters wherever I have commuted (and not just me!).

for Example in the ‘old’ Thameslink days, no regular commuters ever bothered to catch the 1732 from Kings Cross Thameslink as it was always a 4 car, and always crush loaded leaving Farringdon. The only people who turned up for it were occasional travellers, often heading to Luton airport. Invariably they had to wait for the next one.

I take my original post back, have underestimated regular commuters.

 

[F Great Eastern]

From my experience out and about the last week or so, we're not seeing anything like balanced loading on many 720 services. I've been on 3 720s out of Liverpool Street in the last week or so and every single one of them has suffered clearly (from the PIS charts) by bad passenger distribution with the rear 5 carriages being rather more busy than the front 5 carriages due to peoples laziness.

I know there is overcrowding on a number of services and whilst obviously there is a shortage of units compared to what there should be in terms of 720s, drivers off with COVID is also a contributing factor, I heard a GA employee who was checking tickets saying so to a fellow passenger this week that.

The short term changes have been handled quite badly, a friend of mine was travelling on an advance booked a few weeks ago but the changes lengthened the journey somewhat and made a previous connection on that itinerary pretty much impossible because of the short time allowed due to the changes. The railway really needs a way of advising people on advance tickets that their train times have changed. It shouldn't just be up to the passenger to find out for themselves. It should be handled in the same way airlines handle schedule changes.

Also the amount of passenger information systems on trains that are either turned off or do not know where they are going, or simply read out the wrong stopping patterns is also quite apparent. This is especially confusing for less regular passengers where a train has it's running time lengthened to cover the additional stops from the time they originally booked it. The 17:10 from Ipswich going from a 745 Intercity service to a 17:10 stopper and therefore having it's running time lengthened seemed to confuse a fair few people when I was on it recently.

I was on the 17:00 from Liverpool Street yesterday which wasn't that well loaded to be honest. I was surprised to see that the 17:02 which was boarding next door was far more busy and a colleague for Chelmsford said it only got busier at Stratford and the back five carriages were very busy to say the least. What's more perplexing is that GA are selling cheap advance fares (£14/£18) on the 17:02 stopper, despite the heavier loading than on the 745 which doesn't stop until Manningtree where no advance fares are for sale. Don't think GA have got this right.

 

[Sleepy]

I was on the 17:00 from Liverpool Street yesterday which wasn't that well loaded to be honest. I was surprised to see that the 17:02 which was boarding next door was far more busy and a colleague for Chelmsford said it only got busier at Stratford and the back five carriages were very busy to say the least. What's more perplexing is that GA are selling cheap advance fares (£14/£18) on the 17:02 stopper, despite the heavier loading than on the 745 which doesn't stop until Manningtree where no advance fares are for sale. Don't think GA have got this right.

The 1700 isn't even showing as running next week yet - how odd ? Extra stops or Manningtree being removed ?

 

[306024]

The 1700 isn't even showing as running next week yet - how odd ? Extra stops or Manningtree being removed ?

Odd but as I was told last week - patience! Manningtree was added as a late change last Friday otherwise there was no service from Liverpool St to Harwich for nearly two hours.

 

[F Great Eastern]

See below the stopping patterns between 5pm and 6pm on trains on the mainline north of Colchester, this week and next.

This week:
17:00 - Manningtree, Ipswich, Stowmarket, Diss, Norwich
17:02 - Stratford, Shenfield, Chelmsford, Hatfield, Witham, Kelvedon, Marks Tey, Colchester, Manningtree, Ipswich
17:30 - Manningtree, Ipswich, Stowmarket, Diss, Norwich
17:58 - Colchester, Manningtree, Ipswich, Stowmarket, Diss, Norwich.

GA are still as of this evening selling cheap advance fares on the 17:02 for this week, which I'm told again left Liverpool Street higher loaded than the 17:00 which doesn't stop until Manningtree and that's before you consider the 17:02 probably picked up a considerable number of pax at Stratford if yesterday was anything to go by where I'd say at the very least 100 pax got on.

Next Week is the following
17:02 - Stratford, Shenfield, Chelmsford, Witham, Marks Tey, Colchester, Manningtree, Ipswich
17:18 - Stratford, Chelmsford, Kelvedon, Colchester, Manningtree, Ipswich
17:30 - Manningtree, Ipswich, Stowmarket, Diss, Norwich
17:50 - Colchester, Manningtree, Ipswich, Stowmarket, Diss, Norwich.
17:58 - Stratford, Hatfield, Witham, Kelvedon, Colchester, Manningtree, Ipswich.

Looks a tad more balanced both in terms of time separation and stopping patterns. There's a removal of cheap advance fares from the stoppers, too.

 

[dk1]

Do you really thing passengers memorise how many coaches a train is booked to have? Seems completely ridiculous to expect them to in my book. Most of them are not enthuasists, who just want to get a train home at a time convenient to them.

You’d be very surprised indeed as to how interested the GEML commuters are & how they are tweeting their MPs with train formation info & feedback on a daily basis.

17:58 Liverpool St - Norwich was extremely well loaded yesterday evening whereas surprisingly the 18:30 was only around 30-40%. Worst offender I saw was 17:36 Liv St-Colchester Town. Formed of 2x321s it was rammed at Stratford with passengers desperately trying to squeeze into any doorway. A Colchester call in the 17:30 Norwich would make all the difference.

 

[Wivenswold]

Do you really thing passengers memorise how many coaches a train is booked to have? Seems completely ridiculous to expect them to in my book. Most of them are not enthuasists, who just want to get a train home at a time convenient to them.

You've not commuted have you?

My wife constantly moans about short forms and quotes how long her train was and she couldn't give a stuff about trains beyond wanting them to be sufficiently long enough for the passenger load and on time. She, like so many commuters I've observed, know to check the number of carriages before taking up their spot for a 4, 5, 8, 10, 12 car consist.

Commuters are creatures of habit and are finely tuned to notice any day to day differences in their journey experience. Even more so during times of change.

 

[bramling]

Do you really thing passengers memorise how many coaches a train is booked to have? Seems completely ridiculous to expect them to in my book. Most of them are not enthuasists, who just want to get a train home at a time convenient to them.

Many regular commuters certainly have an idea of what’s what. If one finds a particular service works for them, they will certainly aim for it, and part of the rationale may well be if that service is a longer train.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

You've not commuted have you?

My wife constantly moans about short forms and quotes how long her train was and she couldn't give a stuff about trains beyond wanting them to be sufficiently long enough for the passenger load and on time. She, like so many commuters I've observed, know to check the number of carriages before taking up their spot for a 4, 5, 8, 10, 12 car consist.

Commuters are creatures of habit and are finely tuned to notice any day to day differences in their journey experience. Even more so during times of change.

I commute to milton Keynes 5 days a week by train.

 

[Alfie1014]

GA are tweeting that they are passing on all comments plus undertaking train counts I just hope that the loading data from the 720s is more reliable than shown on some of the trains I’ve travelled on. This was on a very lightly loaded 10 car off peak service yesterday but the on train screens were showing it as full! And it’s not the first time i‘ve noticed this.