Greater Anglia makes further changes to its weekday timetable (from 10th January 2022)

[Class 170101]

Seems odd they don’t put a Colchester stop in the 1730 ex London,

Freight following from Ipswich. When the stop was in last Spring it was timed as a Class 745 rather than Class 90 to make the schedule work at that time.

 

[Alfie1014]

if the trains are 10 car 720s from next week, it would be astonishing If they are overcrowded.

If being the operative word with the uplift in service and the 379s stood down the fleet is going to be very stretched. Plus the layout of the 720s doesn’t help there are loads of pictures on line of the current overcrowding and almost all show the trains rammed but with many of the middle of the 3 seats unused partly because they’re difficult to access especially when very busy and the aisles are so narrow. The tip up seats in the vestibules don’t help either.

 

[306024]

It also depends on how you define overcrowded in a Covid world. Travelled on the 16.02 Liverpool St to Ipswich (12x321) yesterday and people seemed to be happier standing crowded in the doorways than actually moving down and sitting next to someone.

 

[dk1]

It also depends on how you define overcrowded in a Covid world. Travelled on the 16.02 Liverpool St to Ipswich (12x321) yesterday and people seemed to be happier standing crowded in the doorways than actually moving down and sitting next to someone.

I think as soon as we pass this stage most wont be that bothered about snuggling up next to others seated again. We are already seeing that return but there are those who always preferred to stand even though they moaned about it. It's a commuter thing.

 

[ashkeba]

I think as soon as we pass this stage most wont be that bothered about snuggling up next to others seated again. We are already seeing that return but there are those who always preferred to stand even though they moaned about it. It's a commuter thing.

Or just a recognition that high density seating spreads other airborne illnesses more and some commuters cannot afford the time off work. I much prefer the 700s to the 720s at peak despite the lower seats per car. 700s see 4 standing for 3 seats but 720s see 1 standing for nearly 4 seats. 700s may have too sparse seats but it feels 720s are too much the other extreme, which is the root of the crowded and cluttered feeling inside.

 

[dk1]

Or just a recognition that high density seating spreads other airborne illnesses more and some commuters cannot afford the time off work. I much prefer the 700s to the 720s at peak despite the lower seats per car. 700s see 4 standing for 3 seats but 720s see 1 standing for nearly 4 seats. 700s may have too sparse seats but it feels 720s are too much the other extreme, which is the root of the crowded and cluttered feeling inside.

Darn DfT & there obsession with maximising & having any input on train seating.

 

[andystock22]

A common complaint about the class 720 is the width between seats is far too small. I would remove the 3rd set to make it 2 by 2 seating and add an inch gap between seats.

 

[ashkeba]

post moved to 720 thread at https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...scussion-and-introduction.158396/post-5517419

 

[dk1]

A common complaint about the class 720 is the width between seats is far too small. I would remove the 3rd set to make it 2 by 2 seating and add an inch gap between seats.

Pity the DfT don't just stick to funding rolling stock rather than getting involved in the interior design. Not sure how easy it would be to remove any. Are they floating on a single pivot?

 

[trebor79]

I think as soon as we pass this stage most wont be that bothered about snuggling up next to others seated again. We are already seeing that return but there are those who always preferred to stand even though they moaned about it. It's a commuter thing.

Agree. I was on some busy trains over the summer and people had no qualms whatsoever about sitting next to and across from each other.

 

[Bald Rick]

Pity the DfT don't just stick to funding rolling stock rather than getting involved in the interior design. Not sure how easy it would be to remove any. Are they floating on a single pivot?

they didn’t specify rolling stock - just rewarded increased seating capacity, as that is what surveys and the consultation responses said that passengers wanted.

Of course, priorities change…

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Darn DfT & there obsession with maximising & having any input on train seating.

well they ordered the 700's and went for 2+2 which was sensible. As a result the trains are unbelievably good at hoovering up people despite only two doors per coach.

 

[dk1]

well they ordered the 700's and went for 2+2 which was sensible. As a result the trains are unbelievably good at hoovering up people despite only two doors per coach.

Wasn’t that more to do with the metro style central Thameslink core?

 

[ashkeba]

Wasn’t that more to do with the metro style central Thameslink core?

They only spend a tiny part of their journey in the core. Maybe it was about capacity? A full length 700 has an official capacity of 1754, but a double 720 only holds 1370. Probably Thameslink stock was ordered on capacity but Anglia on seats alone.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

They only spend a tiny part of their journey in the core. Maybe it was about capacity? A full length 700 has an official capacity of 1754, but a double 720 only holds 1370. Probably Thameslink stock was ordered on capacity but Anglia on seats alone.

As others have explained on different threads the 700's were ordered by DofT but the 720's were part of an operator bid where you scored points on your franchise bid for how many seats you would provide hence we have 720's that squash people in. Nothing is going to change until a mid life upgrade is due I suspect now although I can see dwell times being a challenge at certain stations and like many operators on the south timetables will have had to be padded out to deal with extended station duties.

 

[306024]

I see 1P15 (SX) 07:26 Norwich-Liverpool St is actually running for the very first time. It’s been planned to run since 2020 but never has. It is however at the expense of the Ni90 departure at 08:00 for now. In fact none of the 4 planned Ni90 services are running. The closest is The East Anglian 17:00 down which gets to Ipswich non-stop in 56 minutes but waits until 18:00 to depart (in the path of the 18:00 Ips-Nrw shuttle) then stops additionally at Stowmarket & Diss.

Overall it’s a much better Intercity timetable with a half hourly service from early morning until early evening.

Not now it isn’t

The 07.26, 08.30, 09.00 (Ni90) 17.30, 19.32 and 20.32 NRW -LST
and 18.10, 19.00 (Ni90) and 20.00 LST-NRW

Are all shown in RTT as cancelled.

The 17.30 up / 20.00 down are particularly poor as that puts a hole in the timetable at key times. With six up trains and three down trains cancelled it’s not immediately obvious how the stock is balanced.

This means the timetables shown on the GA website are incorrect, although it does say they are subject to change.

 

[dk1]

Not now it isn’t

The 07.26, 08.30, 09.00 (Ni90) 17.30, 19.32 and 20.32 NRW -LST
and 18.10, 19.00 (Ni90) and 20.00 LST-NRW

Are all shown in RTT as cancelled.

The 17.30 up / 20.00 down are particularly poor as that puts a hole in the timetable at key times. With six up trains and three down trains cancelled it’s not immediately obvious how the stock is balanced.

This means the timetables shown on the GA website are incorrect, although it does say they are subject to change.

Could that be an error with RTT/planning?

These trains have crews booked on them shown in the mods for week 45..

 

[mtmikethom]

Could that be an error with RTT/planning?

These trains have crews booked on them shown in the mods for week 45..

RTT has probably not updated yet, I don't think this weeks timings showed till Thursday last week. From what I noticed last week what was on the GA website is what is currently running, I would tend to believe the GA timetables on website rather than what RTT has if it’s greatly different at the moment.

 

[Glenn1969]

Not now it isn’t

The 07.26, 08.30, 09.00 (Ni90) 17.30, 19.32 and 20.32 NRW -LST
and 18.10, 19.00 (Ni90) and 20.00 LST-NRW

Are all shown in RTT as cancelled.

The 17.30 up / 20.00 down are particularly poor as that puts a hole in the timetable at key times. With six up trains and three down trains cancelled it’s not immediately obvious how the stock is balanced.

This means the timetables shown on the GA website are incorrect, although it does say they are subject to change.

I looked at Norwich to London Liverpool Street on RTT just now and there are no cancellations showing today ?

 

[mtmikethom]

I looked at Norwich to London Liverpool Street on RTT just now and there are no cancellations showing today ?

I think what the poster is saying is that the trains he refers to are not showing on RTT at all rather than listed as cancelled, the current listings in RTT for next week is the timetable that came in on December 13th until May which is one that would have been in place but for the cuts currently in place.

 

[dk1]

I wouldn't go by any online planners for next week yet. Lots of information is wrong. Hopefully tomorrow.

 

[306024]

I wouldn't go by any online planners for next week yet. Lots of information is wrong. Hopefully tomorrow.

Indeed. Just that when I looked previously there was just the WTT service so someone has done something proactively to input that data, which is similar, but not identical, to what we had before the Sunday based timetable. But if the diagrams have crews booked then yes I’d rather believe that.

I think what the poster is saying is that the trains he refers to are not showing on RTT at all rather than listed as cancelled, the current listings in RTT for next week is the timetable that came in on December 13th until May which is one that would have been in place but for the cuts currently in place.

No, they are shown as cancelled. If you set the filter to CAN, and remove WTT, VAR and STP you are left with a list of the cancelled WTT trains quoted.

I looked at Norwich to London Liverpool Street on RTT just now and there are no cancellations showing today ?

We are talking about the timetable from next Monday here, not todays service, if that’s what you mean.

 

[mtmikethom]

Indeed. Just that when I looked previously there was just the WTT service so someone has done something proactively to input that data, which is similar, but not identical, to what we had before the Sunday based timetable. But if the diagrams have crews booked then yes I’d rather believe that.


No, they are shown as cancelled. If you set the filter to CAN, and remove WTT, VAR and STP you are left with a list of the cancelled WTT trains quoted.


We are talking about the timetable from next Monday here, not todays service, if that’s what you mean.

I see what you mean, I should have worded it better.

 

[306024]

I see what you mean, I should have worded it better.

No problem Good luck to anyone trying to keep up with all this.

I wouldn't go by any online planners for next week yet. Lots of information is wrong. Hopefully tomorrow.

Hope has been realised.

The Norwich cancellations are now showing as:
06.48, 08.00 (Ni90), 09.00 (Ni90) 19.32 and 20.32 NRW-LST
18.10, 19.00 (Ni90) and 20.00 LST-NRW

The 17.00 Ni90 is shown calling additionally at Stowmarket and Diss as previously reported.

 

[dk1]

No problem Good luck to anyone trying to keep up with all this.



Hope has been realised.

The Norwich cancellations are now showing as:
06.48, 08.00 (Ni90), 09.00 (Ni90) 19.32 and 20.32 NRW-LST
18.10, 19.00 (Ni90) and 20.00 LST-NRW

The 17.00 Ni90 is shown calling additionally at Stowmarket and Diss as previously reported.

Patience always pays off

 

[Bikeman78]

No problem Good luck to anyone trying to keep up with all this.



Hope has been realised.

The Norwich cancellations are now showing as:
06.48, 08.00 (Ni90), 09.00 (Ni90) 19.32 and 20.32 NRW-LST
18.10, 19.00 (Ni90) and 20.00 LST-NRW

The 17.00 Ni90 is shown calling additionally at Stowmarket and Diss as previously reported.

Curiously RTT shows the full West Anglia timetable running. The spreadsheet on the Greater Anglia website shows that the 1707/1807 are not running along with two fast up trains in the morning. Basically the full December 2021 timetable. I know hindsight is wonderful but it barely seems worth cutting it back for four weeks. Especially with the Hertford timetable being changed almost weekly during that period.

 

[306024]

I know it’s been a nightmare constantly rewriting the plan but the obsession with faster trains to Norwich results in some perversities and failure to serve the core ‘commuting’ market. There are no IC calling at Manningtree between the 16:00 and 17:30 with the 16:02 and 17:02 stoppers being the only trains from London between these times and means the 18:00 Mann to Harwich Tn connects out nothing much really. Also Colchester only has 3 trains departing London between 17:00 and 18:00 (if we count the 17:58 as the 18:00 in disguise) which is one less than at the moment with the amended Sunday service!

The 17.00 Liverpool St to Norwich is now shown in RTT to call at Manningtree so will connect into the 18.00 Manningtree to Harwich Town.

 

[The exile]

they didn’t specify rolling stock - just rewarded increased seating capacity, as that is what surveys and the consultation responses said that passengers wanted.

Of course, priorities change…

And the result of a survey will depend on the question asked. The standard public reaction to overcrowding tends to be “Why don’t they run more trains / put more carriages on?” rather than “why don’t they pack more seats into the carriages they’re already running?”
Yes, I know that isn’t going to work everywhere…..

 

[306024]

And the result of a survey will depend on the question asked. The standard public reaction to overcrowding tends to be “Why don’t they run more trains / put more carriages on?” rather than “why don’t they pack more seats into the carriages they’re already running?”
Yes, I know that isn’t going to work everywhere…..

Certainly not on the GEML which was operating at maximum capacity south of Shenfield with 12 car trains at the height of the peak.

 

[The exile]

Certainly not on the GEML which was operating at maximum capacity south of Shenfield with 12 car trains at the height of the peak.

True - but phrase the question like this : “Do you want us to add a few more seats to every carriage so that of the 200 people standing, 20 might get a seat - incidentally this will mean that most people will find that no seat has enough leg room” and the fry for extra seating might have been muted!