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GWR Brighton services axed from May timetable change

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JonathanH

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Does anyone know the reason as to the 10:41 Malvern - Brighton service was cancelled early at Worthing today? It was 14 minutes late leaving Malvern, never really made up time then arrived into Worthing 25 minutes late. Looks like it got delayed between Worcester and Malvern Link on its previous journey from Warminster for some reason.
Congestion at Great Malvern due to a delay on 1W15 0750 London Paddington to Great Malvern which ran about 15 minutes late throughout.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L87444/2022-05-05/detailed#allox_id=0

Seemingly never recovered its delay and then got caught behind the Southampton to Portsmouth stopper.

Worthing is the last place that the train can realistically be terminated short of Brighton for an on time departure going westwards.
 
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Basil Jet

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Congestion at Great Malvern due to a delay on 1W15 0750 London Paddington to Great Malvern which ran about 15 minutes late throughout.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L87444/2022-05-05/detailed#allox_id=0

Seemingly never recovered its delay and then got caught behind the Southampton to Portsmouth stopper.

Worthing is the last place that the train can realistically be terminated short of Brighton for an on time departure going westwards.
Were the people waiting for it at Brighton told that it would start at Worthing, and were they told early enough to let them get to Worthing to catch it?
 

JonathanH

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Were the people waiting for it at Brighton told that it would start at Worthing, and were they told early enough to let them get to Worthing to catch it?
If they were at Brighton by 1652 (for a 1702 departure) it looks like they will have made a connection. The GWR service left Worthing right time.
 

plugwash

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On the other hand, travelling via London will become a *lot* easier in a couple of week's time,
I think you may be exaggerating a bit there. While the crossrail core is opening soon, through trains from the crossrail core to the GWML are still some way in the future. So travelling from brighton to GWML destinations via London will still mean changing twice.

I can't find proper maps of the new stations, but afaict at farringdon I think you will have to

1. Ascend by stairs or lift from the Thameslink platforms to the ticket hall.
2. Descend from the ticket hall to the crossrail intermediate level by escalator or lift.
3. Descend from the crossrail intermediate level by escalator or lift.

While at paddington you will need to.

1. Ascend from the crossrail platforms to the crossrail ticket hall by escalator or lift.
2. Exit through the crossrail ticket barriers.
3. Ascend to street level using another escalator or lift.
4. Enter the mainline station building.
5. Enter the mainline ticket barriers.

Yes as a modern development it's "step free" but i'm not sure i'd call either of them particularly "easy" interchanges. They ceratinaly are not "cross-platform"

It seems even without crossrail there is already a "step-free" 2-change route between Thameslink and the GWML by changing at Blackfriars and Ealing Broadway. Unfortunately it seems that while Ealing Broadway is on NREs list of cross-london interchange stations, no "fixed links" are defined in the timetable data so a rail journey planner will never route you that way.
 

Snow1964

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That's (partly) because you're a week earlier than I specified and the journey planners haven't been updated to take account of the Elizabeth line: I just tried Bath to Farringdon on a weekday in June on the NR planner and it still tells you to head for the Circle/H&C. I don't know exactly what the changes at Paddington and Farringdon will be like but they should both be much better than the mainline to Underground changes at Paddington and Victoria, at least if you keep to the west end of the Elizabeth line train and the south end of the Thameslink train at Farringdon.

Changing between Thameslink and Southern is the same platform at East Croydon or if (like me) Brighton and Hove stations are equally inconvenient you could just stay on Thameslink to Brighton instead of going to Hove.

What would you do if you wanted to arrive in Sussex in time for lunch?
I think many people prefer the infrequent direct train if they have luggage

To best of my knowledge the step free at Paddington and Farringdon is more designed for a tiny fraction who can’t use the escalators, rather than having lifts suitably sized for dozens with suitcases on each train.

These days assuming 90+% of peoples destination is centre of London, or actually want to change in London, take a tube, and another train is something some people on railway do not really understand. I have been at Bath station and seen more people getting on 3car Portsmouth trains than getting on 9car London trains, the ratio is nowhere near 1:3 like number of carriages provided.
 

387star

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A tatty blue 166 on the morning one today complete with obsolete '1' sticker and the ongoing issue of the auto announcer being unable to announce Portchester
 

pompeyfan

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A tatty blue 166 on the morning one today complete with obsolete '1' sticker and the ongoing issue of the auto announcer being unable to announce Portchester

Since when have GWR called at Portchester? I knew 2V52 in the very early morning did, but not the Brightons.
 

387star

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Since when have GWR called at Portchester? I knew 2V52 in the very early morning did, but not the Brightons.
Both Pm and Am Brighton have done towards Fareham since December
Also on a Sunday there's a random call towards Cosham on an afternoon working
 

ValleyLines142

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Both Pm and Am Brighton have done towards Fareham since December
Also on a Sunday there's a random call towards Cosham on an afternoon working
The afternoon Brighton doesn't call at Portchester.

I think it's ridiculous how many stations it calls at, no need for a Malvern to Brighton train to call at the likes of Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Freshford, Avoncliff or Dilton Marsh!
 

387star

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The afternoon Brighton doesn't call at Portchester.

I think it's ridiculous how many stations it calls at, no need for a Malvern to Brighton train to call at the likes of Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Freshford, Avoncliff or Dilton Marsh!
That's because it fits in the half hour slot inbetween the Cardiffs which are fast. Other extras terminated at Warminster.

I did wonder why the Brightons were peak time services and not off peak as it's bizarre GWR provided a commuter and long distance offering . The early Portsmouth Harbour to Brighton probably was a waste of a diesel. However I'm sure those commuters will love the slow Southern replacement!

Most GWR Brighton services are/were unique in omitting Angmering and Portslade.
 

JonathanH

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I think it's ridiculous how many stations it calls at, no need for a Malvern to Brighton train to call at the likes of Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Freshford, Avoncliff or Dilton Marsh!
It runs in the path of the local train on the relevant route - the stations warrant calls once an hour, possibly more Just because it is a string of local services all put together to cover a long distance doesn't mean the local stops can be taken out.

When it loses its extension from Warminster to Brighton in the middle of May it will call at the same local stations and presumably you won't consider that same calling pattern ridiculous.
 
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Stigy

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The afternoon Brighton doesn't call at Portchester.

I think it's ridiculous how many stations it calls at, no need for a Malvern to Brighton train to call at the likes of Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Freshford, Avoncliff or Dilton Marsh!
Both Brighton GWR trains on their return to Bristol/Worcester, call at Portchester.

Not many people use the service at the Bristol end of the journey to travel all the way to Brighton and vice Versa. As has been said, it forms the pattern of a usual stopping service when it gets beyond WSB on its return.
 

miklcct

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Withdrawal of the GWR Brighton services seems to have disadvantages to me, as an example
Next Tuesday Bath - Hove
13:00 direct arrives 16:10 showing as £59.80 adult single
13:13 via London arrives 16:53 £79.40 adult single

takes longer via London and costs more, and got to make 2 changes with long walks, lot of disadvantages for gain of more trains per day

But there's no need to go to London. Travelling via Fareham is the normal replacement once the Southern train returns.

I think many people prefer the infrequent direct train if they have luggage

To best of my knowledge the step free at Paddington and Farringdon is more designed for a tiny fraction who can’t use the escalators, rather than having lifts suitably sized for dozens with suitcases on each train.

These days assuming 90+% of peoples destination is centre of London, or actually want to change in London, take a tube, and another train is something some people on railway do not really understand. I have been at Bath station and seen more people getting on 3car Portsmouth trains than getting on 9car London trains, the ratio is nowhere near 1:3 like number of carriages provided.
I mainly avoid London if possible when taking railways. Taking the tube isn't nice! Also it's usually cheaper not via London as well.

Anyway I think it's good to let go of the GWR Brighton train in order to improve reliability of the whole system.
 

railwaytrack

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A tatty blue 166 on the morning one today complete with obsolete '1' sticker and the ongoing issue of the auto announcer being unable to announce Portchester
I am surprised that they have still not sorted out the announcements not being able to announce Portchester yet. It can not be that hard for them to get the voiceover artist to make a Portchester recording. It seems to take GWR a long time to sort out simple issues.

I wonder if the automated announcement system is capable of announcing, Angmering, Botley, Eastleigh, Emsworth, Hedge End, Portslade, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southbourne, as those are other stations that see very limited GWR services and GWR never used to call at these either.

What they should have done is just got the voiceover artist to announce every single station on every route that GWR operate on regardless of whether GWR call there. Therefore when GWR decided to call at other stations they would not have this issue. This is what LNER have done. On their 800/801 they have recorded every station on every route they run on (even Chathill is in the system) which is much more sensible.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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The ironic thing is the same voice over artist (Janine Cooper-Marshall) that does GWR has recorded hundreds of fake announcements for a fictional train simulation game on Roblox (I know because I was told, believe me I’m not a Robloxer), so if a Roblox amateur game developer can buy more recordings off her surely Great Western Railway can.
 

railwaytrack

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The ironic thing is the same voice over artist (Janine Cooper-Marshall) that does GWR has recorded hundreds of fake announcements for a fictional train simulation game on Roblox (I know because I was told, believe me I’m not a Robloxer), so if a Roblox amateur game developer can buy more recordings off her surely Great Western Railway can.
Absolutely i am sure they could if they were bothered. All they have to do is contact Janine Cooper Marshall and ask her to do the required recordings. It could be sorted in a few days. Quick and easy. But like most things on the railway it takes ages to get sorted. I remember the previous Faye Dicker recordings also had issues with some stations not being announced and they never fixed that either. I remember that even the very early Michelle Beazley announcements had many faults and omissions that never got fixed. It seems that GWR are just not that bothered with making sure their announcements work properly.
 

387star

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I am surprised that they have still not sorted out the announcements not being able to announce Portchester yet. It can not be that hard for them to get the voiceover artist to make a Portchester recording. It seems to take GWR a long time to sort out simple issues.

I wonder if the automated announcement system is capable of announcing, Angmering, Botley, Eastleigh, Emsworth, Hedge End, Portslade, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southbourne, as those are other stations that see very limited GWR services and GWR never used to call at these either.

What they should have done is just got the voiceover artist to announce every single station on every route that GWR operate on regardless of whether GWR call there. Therefore when GWR decided to call at other stations they would not have this issue. This is what LNER have done. On their 800/801 they have recorded every station on every route they run on (even Chathill is in the system) which is much more sensible.
Dilton is never announced either due to door release being linked to the Train FX

Surely it could announce it's a request stop and front door only
 

RPI

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I am surprised that they have still not sorted out the announcements not being able to announce Portchester yet. It can not be that hard for them to get the voiceover artist to make a Portchester recording. It seems to take GWR a long time to sort out simple issues.

I wonder if the automated announcement system is capable of announcing, Angmering, Botley, Eastleigh, Emsworth, Hedge End, Portslade, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southbourne, as those are other stations that see very limited GWR services and GWR never used to call at these either.

What they should have done is just got the voiceover artist to announce every single station on every route that GWR operate on regardless of whether GWR call there. Therefore when GWR decided to call at other stations they would not have this issue. This is what LNER have done. On their 800/801 they have recorded every station on every route they run on (even Chathill is in the system) which is much more sensible.
When running via Yeovil the IET'S announce Honiton and Axminster without issue!
 

Horizon22

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The afternoon Brighton doesn't call at Portchester.

I think it's ridiculous how many stations it calls at, no need for a Malvern to Brighton train to call at the likes of Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Freshford, Avoncliff or Dilton Marsh!

That's because the service is doubling up as a both a local service and a regional service at times, depending on service patterns around the time. This is partly why it doesn't quite seem sustainable in a brave new world.
 

Mainline421

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I am surprised that they have still not sorted out the announcements not being able to announce Portchester yet. It can not be that hard for them to get the voiceover artist to make a Portchester recording. It seems to take GWR a long time to sort out simple issues.

I wonder if the automated announcement system is capable of announcing, Angmering, Botley, Eastleigh, Emsworth, Hedge End, Portslade, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southbourne, as those are other stations that see very limited GWR services and GWR never used to call at these either.

What they should have done is just got the voiceover artist to announce every single station on every route that GWR operate on regardless of whether GWR call there. Therefore when GWR decided to call at other stations they would not have this issue. This is what LNER have done. On their 800/801 they have recorded every station on every route they run on (even Chathill is in the system) which is much more sensible.
Pretty sure they have, it even has stations like Crewkerne and Yeovil Junction.
 

Parallel

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I am surprised that they have still not sorted out the announcements not being able to announce Portchester yet. It can not be that hard for them to get the voiceover artist to make a Portchester recording. It seems to take GWR a long time to sort out simple issues.

I wonder if the automated announcement system is capable of announcing, Angmering, Botley, Eastleigh, Emsworth, Hedge End, Portslade, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southbourne, as those are other stations that see very limited GWR services and GWR never used to call at these either.
Janine on the morning Brighton service can announce Southbourne, Angmering, Emsworth and Portslade.

I think the Portchester call was a fairly recent addition (within the last year or so) that’s probably been overlooked. Dropping GWR a line will probably see it added next time they get Janine recording.
 

Kite159

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I am surprised that they have still not sorted out the announcements not being able to announce Portchester yet. It can not be that hard for them to get the voiceover artist to make a Portchester recording. It seems to take GWR a long time to sort out simple issues.

I wonder if the automated announcement system is capable of announcing, Angmering, Botley, Eastleigh, Emsworth, Hedge End, Portslade, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southbourne, as those are other stations that see very limited GWR services and GWR never used to call at these either.

What they should have done is just got the voiceover artist to announce every single station on every route that GWR operate on regardless of whether GWR call there. Therefore when GWR decided to call at other stations they would not have this issue. This is what LNER have done. On their 800/801 they have recorded every station on every route they run on (even Chathill is in the system) which is much more sensible.

Pretty sure they can do Eastleigh & Chandlers Ford as those are common at weekends when the Southampton area is closed [GWR normally picking up the Chandlers Ford call from SWR due to the single line]
 

railwaytrack

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Janine on the morning Brighton service can announce Southbourne, Angmering, Emsworth and Portslade.

I think the Portchester call was a fairly recent addition (within the last year or so) that’s probably been overlooked. Dropping GWR a line will probably see it added next time they get Janine recording.
Pretty sure they can do Eastleigh & Chandlers Ford as those are common at weekends when the Southampton area is closed [GWR normally picking up the Chandlers Ford call from SWR due to the single line]
That is good to hear. I remember the old Faye Dicker ones seemed to have trouble announcing Botley and Hedge End for quite a while. I am not sure if that has been sorted when they switched to the Janine Cooper Marshall announcements. I might email GWR about the Portchester issue (although i have very little faith in their outsourced Capita customer service actually passing these things on to the relevant people) so maybe it will get fixed soon.
 

TXMISTA

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Both Brighton GWR trains on their return to Bristol/Worcester, call at Portchester.

Not many people use the service at the Bristol end of the journey to travel all the way to Brighton and vice Versa. As has been said, it forms the pattern of a usual stopping service when it gets beyond WSB on its return.
That’s not strictly true in my experience. On the occasions that I’ve used the service, I have encountered plenty of other passengers travelling the (almost) full stretch from Bristol or Bath to Brighton and vice versa. I also know a fair amount of people who study in Bristol and live in Brighton or West Sussex that use the direct service when returning to/from university.
 

Parallel

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That is good to hear. I remember the old Faye Dicker ones seemed to have trouble announcing Botley and Hedge End for quite a while. I am not sure if that has been sorted when they switched to the Janine Cooper Marshall announcements. I might email GWR about the Portchester issue (although i have very little faith in their outsourced Capita customer service actually passing these things on to the relevant people) so maybe it will get fixed soon.
Janine can announce Hedge End and Botley
 

swt_passenger

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Good to hear. Looks like they have finally sorted out their announcements then. So it is just the Portchester issue that remains.
I think with them down to one call a day Mon-Fri from a week Monday, it’s not likely to be much of a priority.
 

387star

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Believe the last service Friday 13th May 10:41 Great Malvern to Brighton /17:02 Brighton to Bristol Parkway will carry a headboard and window stickers. Aim is to make it a five car
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Approximately fifteen years ago, Brighton was served by six different train operating companies (SN TL GX SW GW VT)

Now GTR is to be the only one.
 

HamworthyGoods

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Approximately fifteen years ago, Brighton was served by six different train operating companies (SN TL GX SW GW VT)

Now GTR is to be the only one.

GX never served Brighton when it was run as a separate TOC, services were only extended to there once it was part of the SN franchise in 2008.
 
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