Football

[Iskra]

But you are judging clubs by ''playing the right way'' or '' playing the wrong sort of football''. This only comes out on internet forums or the pub bore where they are quoting a pundit this has increased since twitter and 24 hour Sky Sports News appeared. I never hear it at the grounds. I get this feeling you get your football knowledge off Football Manager.
There isn't a fan in the world who wants to watch there side in a lower division even if going up costs more but many still turn up, you forget the financial situation were in now and attendances are still going strong, or increased lower down as it's better than sitting at home watching the telly. . Of course attendances drop after relegation the clubs they play are smaller, you don't get De Bruyne or Mo Salah in the Conference. Anyhow Wycombes have risen despite them playing as you say ''not in the correct way''. And do you think that Wycombes average is exactly the same person attending each week? or will it be like most clubs a mixture of season ticket holders, once a year, three times, get to a game when they can and ones who only go when not in work. They get to Wembley and they all go the same time so are they not worthy of being at Wembley as you think they are glory hunters? Was every Sunderland fan present attending constantly through the season, if they fill The Stadium of Light more next season are they ''only there when they aren't crap fans'' Would they not have turned up if Sunderland adopted your ''anti-football football''? And lower league football is exactly the opposite of ''Closed Shop'' for fans. Yor final sentence is complete bollocks.


I agree with most apart from Wycombe fans not turning up for Rochdale. Football is expensive even at conference level your talking a significant outlay for a family, most pick and choose when they go, weeknights are no goer unless you're completely free for a night and following morning. Even season ticket holders at Anfield/Old Trafford will pick which games they go to and sell the ones the can't make or have less interest in going to. And I doubt many United fans gave up their ST due to Hiddink and Mourinho's style of football.
Almost all Wycombe fans will have attended a few games this season, just not all at the same game for every game, and when your biggest game of the season is played at a national stadium a few miles away I gather they're all going to go and if possible take a friend along if tickets are available. I bet a lot of Sunderland fans will have done the same.

Elland Road is full of fans saying this at the moment- it's clearly a hot topic.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What is the position with the matter jointly raised by Leeds United and by Burnley concerning some financial matter at Everton recently?

 

[SteveM70]

What is the position with the matter jointly raised by Leeds United and by Burnley concerning some financial matter at Everton recently?

Everton have made losses over the last three seasons way in excess of what’s permitted, but are claiming a lot of it is related to covid and their stadium move. I’d expect the premier league to have a cursory glance and say “nowt to see here, Everton are a bigger club than Burnley”

 

[AlterEgo]

Everton have made losses over the last three seasons way in excess of what’s permitted, but are claiming a lot of it is related to covid and their stadium move. I’d expect the premier league to have a cursory glance and say “nowt to see here, Everton are a bigger club than Burnley”

That’s pretty much the long and short of it. Leeds will likely forget about it now they’ve survived relegation.

 

[Grecian 1998]

The issue with Wycombe is less the style of football they play and more the fact that once they go ahead there's very little football of any description to be seen - they use every trick in the book to slow the game down. Virtually every outfield player will get cramp, the keeper will constantly change his mind about which side to take goal kicks from, players to be substituted will head to the far side of the pitch from the dugout (the new rule about going off at the nearest point never gets enforced in the lower leagues) etc. As an Exeter fan I've seen this on multiple occasions. It's incredibly frustrating to watch. I really wanted Wycombe to win, partly for a trip to the Stadium of Light and partly so we wouldn't have to paly them next season.

Attritional long ball with a reliance on set pieces can be very entertaining if it's played well - I had no complaints when Northampton thumped us 4-0 in the L2 play-off final in 2020. I don't think Cambridge fans in the John Beck era were complaining the football wasn't very aesthetic when they got promoted twice in a row and were two games from being founder members of the Premier League. Did help that they had Liam Daish, Dion Dublin and Steve Claridge though.

Incidentally lots of hipsters seem to go and watch Crystal Palace, Dulwich Hamlets and Clapton. I assume they aren't going for the quality of the football. Must be a South London thing.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

It's the emergence of "ultras" culture.

Winchester City actually played Dulwich in the FA Trophy a few years ago and the match passed without influence (other than almost getting abandoned after a pheasant flew into power lines) but I suspect that the Clapton lot would see my support of Chelsea as grounds for a struggle session; I know of someone who got some nasty treatment there once for wearing a Rangers FC cap.

 

[DarloRich]

I have never played Football Manager and would wager I have played at a higher level than most people in this forum, having been in the youth team of what was then a Championship level club until I was 18.

You have missed out! get yourself on the FM bus

But if I go to a Darlington match now, I expect they're pulling in a decent number of people who actually didn't stay, and who have either been tempted in from the wilderness or even are new fans entirely.

Give me a shout if you want to go.

Fan wise we really have the same hardcore we have always have. The ground doesn't help but we have always had problems getting people to the match with the "big three" an easy bus or train ride away. I am sure we have tempted a few back and found new fans but not as many as you might think. The ground & the relationship with the rugby club also doesn't help. All anecdotal of course as i doubt we have asked!

PS apparently we are moving to a new ground in a few years that will be an actual football ground.

Not everyone has their local team assigned at birth or by branding with a cattle prod. Some people come to teams through different processes.

I come from a family of Sunderland fans ( and extended family boro fans) so being a Darlo fan confuses them! Darlo was the first team I was able to see. We couldn't afford Sunderland or Boro tickets/travel so my Dad ( who had lost interest in football due to hooligans) took me under sufferance. It was an awful game v Rochdale and i was hooked!

Many away fans yes, but still a decent turnout for home fans. I was in the away end.

Carlisle always brought a strong following. Same as York.

No, it isn't.

Of course it is - you need the people who went to Wembley to come back and spend money on a more regular basis.

Playing industrial football and wasting 40% of the game with the ball being out of play is not going to make you more attractive to watch.

But it might keep you in a higher division or league position than you really deserve.

 

[Loppylugs]

So how long is a 'keeper supposed to hold the ball for ? Watching the Notts County v Grimsby play-off match last night, after NC went one up they're goalie hung on to the ball for a very unreasonable length of time, falling over when unnecessary and then strolling to the edge of his area and looking aimlessly around before dispatching it. Different story in extra time after Grimsby had equalised and justifiably went on to win the match.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

So how long is a 'keeper supposed to hold the ball for ?

Should be no more than six seconds, after the goalkeeper has first controlled the ball with their arm or hands, before they are expected to have released the ball.

Seemingly not always enforced by referees though (by an indirect free kick awarded against the goalkeeper).

 

[SteveM70]

Should be no more than six seconds, after the goalkeeper has first controlled the ball with their arm or hands, before they are expected to have released the ball.

Seemingly not always enforced by referees though (by an indirect free kick awarded against the goalkeeper).

Correct, and I’ve seen it enforced once in the last twenty years, at a Sunderland game I went to earlier this season. It was either Crewe or Shrewsbury and they were trying to hang on for a draw, and in both cases lost to a goal deep in injury time

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Indeed. Don't recall seeing the so-called "six second rule" having been enforced anytime recently. Referees more often seem to take offence at goalkeepers delaying the restart by faffing around when, for example, taking a goal kick in the closing stages of a match.

 

[roversfan2001]

I went to watch Basel v Lugano on Sunday afternoon. I'll add Switzerland onto the list of countries where pyro is embraced. It was an end of season dead rubber and the home end never stopped bouncing, with flares and smoke bombs aplenty. It made for a really good spectacle; the game itself was alright too. Beer is bloody expensive over there though!

 

[scotrail158713]

I'll admit that as a referee myself I tend to enforce the six second rule as more of a "don't take the mick" rule, which probably isn't very professional of me to admit. What I mean though is that I'll probably give the keeper a couple of shouts of "let's go keeper" to give them a warning, and if it's still happening then the next time - after a good 10-15 seconds - it is getting punished. This means it's not coming as a shock to anyone when the yellow card is shown.
I'd agree with the point @Mcr Warrior raised about time wasting being more strictly monitored at goal kicks as well. I'd say it probably comes from (shock horror ) the referee not wanting to be centre of attention, as if it's punished from the keeper kicking from hands then you have all the drama of an indirect free kick in the box whereas at a goal kick play will still restart with a goal kick.

 

[swt_passenger]

Indeed. Don't recall seeing the so-called "six second rule" having been enforced anytime recently. Referees more often seem to take offence at goalkeepers delaying the restart by faffing around when, for example, taking a goal kick in the closing stages of a match.

I’d like them to do something about keepers who catch the ball cleanly while remaining on their feet then fall over as soon as forward comes near…

 

[Loppylugs]

I’d like them to do something about keepers who catch the ball cleanly while remaining on their feet then fall over as soon as forward comes near…

That's exactly what the Notts County 'keeper was doing, many times.

Also annoying to me is the time taken to celebrate a goal. Yes of course it's only right to enjoy the moment, but the cuddling, hugging and general habit of jumping all over the scorer is excessive. Give them a time limit of 30 seconds to get back to the centre circle. If they are still faffing about the other team can re-start without them. Simples.

 

[SteveM70]

That's exactly what the Notts County 'keeper was doing, many times.

Also annoying to me is the time taken to celebrate a goal. Yes of course it's only right to enjoy the moment, but the cuddling, hugging and general habit of jumping all over the scorer is excessive. Give them a time limit of 30 seconds to get back to the centre circle. If they are still faffing about the other team can re-start without them. Simples.

The problem with that is that you’d need to change the law which requires players to be in their own half for kick off. Possibly not very likely

The one thing they could and should do immediately is et tod of the law change from about 20 years ago that allows goalkeepers to choose where in the 6 yard box they take goal kicks from. No idea why this was changed, and all it does is allow a timewasting keeper to faff about going to the opposite side of the box to where the ball went out, and he can’t be penalised for it as it’s legal

 

[scotrail158713]

and he can’t be penalised for it as it’s legal

They can be booked for delaying the restart of play if they’re taking too long. Obviously there’s no set definition of “too long” and it would be an incredibly brave referee to give a second booking for this, resulting in a sending off.
I have to say that any time I’ve seen a referee in a game clamp down on it early on it does make a noticeable difference. Whereas it’s just frustrating and pointless when they leave it until the 89th minute to do it - especially if the offending team have been doing it most of the game.

 

[swt_passenger]

[…]
Also annoying to me is the time taken to celebrate a goal. Yes of course it's only right to enjoy the moment, but the cuddling, hugging and general habit of jumping all over the scorer is excessive. Give them a time limit of 30 seconds to get back to the centre circle. If they are still faffing about the other team can re-start without them. Simples.

I’ve said the same in the past. I can’t see that much of a problem with having a different rule for a restart after a goal, compared to the start of a half.

 

[Runningaround]

Elland Road is full of fans saying this at the moment- it's clearly a hot topic.

like Spurs' and West Ham who insist they play the ''clubs way'' even though they've still won f.all. Leeds fans have are well known for believing they are entitled. Remember ''We belong in the Premier League due to our fanbase'' over clubs like Burnley even when they got relegated into league one. Its developed into a Yorkshire thing both Sheffield clubs and even Halifax are known to exclaim our fanbase belongs at a higher level it passed on from Man City's time in division two.

 

[Iskra]

like Spurs' and West Ham who insist they play the ''clubs way'' even though they've still won f.all. Leeds fans have are well known for believing they are entitled. Remember ''We belong in the Premier League due to our fanbase'' over clubs like Burnley even when they got relegated into league one. Its developed into a Yorkshire thing both Sheffield clubs and even Halifax are known to exclaim our fanbase belongs at a higher level it passed on from Man City's time in division two.

That's just a post of tired cliche's.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That's just a post of tired cliche's.

Indeed.

Truly, the "love of the game" really comes across in the last half-dozen or so posts of this thread...

That's exactly what the Notts County 'keeper was doing, many times.

Also annoying to me is the time taken to celebrate a goal. Yes of course it's only right to enjoy the moment, but the cuddling, hugging and general habit of jumping all over the scorer is excessive. Give them a time limit of 30 seconds to get back to the centre circle. If they are still faffing about the other team can re-start without them. Simples.

Yeah, who wants to see passion and emotion from the often highly-rewarded players... they're professionals so a simple thumbs-up should suffice. Supporters barely have time to spare more than a couple of hours to go to the game, and they've all got a bus to catch home afterwards...

 

[Iskra]

Indeed.

Truly, the "love of the game" really comes across in the last half-dozen or so posts of this thread...


Yeah, who wants to see passion and emotion from the often highly-rewarded players... they're professionals so a simple thumbs-up should suffice. Supporters barely have time to spare more than a couple of hours to go to the game, and they've all got a bus to catch home afterwards...

Are you going to the PO final at the weekend?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Are you going to the PO final at the weekend?

Yes, despite the EFL/Sky/the railway's best efforts to stop me...

I'm preparing myself for disappointment of course, as always with play-off games the method is "prepare for the worst, hope for the best".
Obviously I want us to win and get promoted, but I won't be heartbroken if we lose. Our last "adventure" was fun at first but getting tonked* most weeks gets old very quickly as you'll no doubt be aware after this season. Hopefully your final day heroics have broken the Witch's Curse that had affected Yorkshire clubs in their second season... presumably imposed because Geoff Boycott refused to buy some lucky heather or something.

If we do manage to win on Sunday I'll be chuffed to bits, but if we don't it won't be the end of the world... there's an element of "been there, done that, bought the t-shirt" about the EPL, and a relatively small club like Huddersfield is never going to be able to compete at the top end of the league unless some Sheikh needs to do some Sport-washing. The worry is that Promotion would mean splashing silly money on lazy prima-donna players, and being patronised by "Our Gary" on MotD... but failure to win promotion may mean that our better players, and maybe the manager, will move on.

*=I say "tonked", but our heaviest defeat in the PL was a 6-1 defeat at the Emptyhad. Last season, Norwich did us for 7 in the Championship, live on Sky.

 

[Iskra]

Yes, despite the EFL/Sky/the railway's best efforts to stop me...

I'm preparing myself for disappointment of course, as always with play-off games the method is "prepare for the worst, hope for the best".
Obviously I want us to win and get promoted, but I won't be heartbroken if we lose. Our last "adventure" was fun at first but getting tonked* most weeks gets old very quickly as you'll no doubt be aware after this season. Hopefully your final day heroics have broken the Witch's Curse that had affected Yorkshire clubs in their second season... presumably imposed because Geoff Boycott refused to buy some lucky heather or something.

If we do manage to win on Sunday I'll be chuffed to bits, but if we don't it won't be the end of the world... there's an element of "been there, done that, bought the t-shirt" about the EPL, and a relatively small club like Huddersfield is never going to be able to compete at the top end of the league unless some Sheikh needs to do some Sport-washing. The worry is that Promotion would mean splashing silly money on lazy prima-donna players, and being patronised by "Our Gary" on MotD... but failure to win promotion may mean that our better players, and maybe the manager, will move on.

*=I say "tonked", but our heaviest defeat in the PL was a 6-1 defeat at the Emptyhad. Last season, Norwich did us for 7 in the Championship, live on Sky.

Well I hope you have a good trip down and day out! I expected you to be relishing the affair, being the penalty kings afterall. Yes I totally agree the PL is a banality, but it is better to be in it than out of it.

 

[AlterEgo]

The problem with that is that you’d need to change the law which requires players to be in their own half for kick off. Possibly not very likely

The one thing they could and should do immediately is et tod of the law change from about 20 years ago that allows goalkeepers to choose where in the 6 yard box they take goal kicks from. No idea why this was changed, and all it does is allow a timewasting keeper to faff about going to the opposite side of the box to where the ball went out, and he can’t be penalised for it as it’s legal

Yes, I'd change that too. Must be taken from the exact corner of the 6 yard box the side the ball left play.

Same with free kicks won in your own penalty box. The law (which most people don't read!) says you may take the free kick from anywhere inside the penalty area, which gives a much wider area for goalkeepers to muck about in, "deciding where to take the kick".

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Well I hope you have a good trip down and day out! I expected you to be relishing the affair, being the penalty kings afterall. Yes I totally agree the PL is a banality, but it is better to be in it than out of it.

The "penalty kings" tag might be under threat after the Forest v Blades semi-final... but then prior to Luton we had NEVER won the home leg of a play-off, so it seems to be the year of habits being broken. We don't have any Germans with their stereotypical ruthlessness from 12 yards like we did in 2017.

To be honest, in 2017 it felt like if we didn't do it then, we never would. I'm so glad we did as it meant my dad got to see Town in the top-flight again before his passing in 2020.

Now, the PL is a known quantity... and I'd hope that Mr. Hoyle has learned from his mistakes last time around. That first season we came out of the traps all guns blazing, and as a result spent more nights in the top four (8) over the season than we did in the bottom three (1). Before long though, Wagner got "figured out" by the established PL coaches and we became more negative in our approach. We managed to stay up running on fumes, and then spaffed stupid money on some absolute garbage players.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I fancy Solihull Moors to sneak into the EFL via the play offs.

In today's play-off semi final match, Solihull Moors won 3-1 against Chesterfield.

 

[Kite159]

And Nottingham Forest are back in the Premier League. Hopefully they won't do a Fulham/Norwich and come straight back down.

 

[SteveM70]

And Nottingham Forest are back in the Premier League. Hopefully they won't do a Fulham/Norwich and come straight back down.

Pretty awful game, and some terrible reffing from Jon Moss compounded by one utterly inexplicable VAR non-decision. Still glad for Forest, always had a soft spot for them

 

[Phil56]

The issue with Wycombe is less the style of football they play and more the fact that once they go ahead there's very little football of any description to be seen - they use every trick in the book to slow the game down. Virtually every outfield player will get cramp, the keeper will constantly change his mind about which side to take goal kicks from, players to be substituted will head to the far side of the pitch from the dugout (the new rule about going off at the nearest point never gets enforced in the lower leagues) etc. As an Exeter fan I've seen this on multiple occasions. It's incredibly frustrating to watch. I really wanted Wycombe to win, partly for a trip to the Stadium of Light and partly so we wouldn't have to paly them next season.

Attritional long ball with a reliance on set pieces can be very entertaining if it's played well - I had no complaints when Northampton thumped us 4-0 in the L2 play-off final in 2020. I don't think Cambridge fans in the John Beck era were complaining the football wasn't very aesthetic when they got promoted twice in a row and were two games from being founder members of the Premier League. Did help that they had Liam Daish, Dion Dublin and Steve Claridge though.

Incidentally lots of hipsters seem to go and watch Crystal Palace, Dulwich Hamlets and Clapton. I assume they aren't going for the quality of the football. Must be a South London thing.

I agree. Bolton do the same. They time waste using every trick in the book. They've even "made up" things like claiming racist abuse by fans above the dugout to get the game temporarily suspended to give the players a rest and for the manager to give instructions/make changes etc.