Transpennine Industrial Relations

[Watershed]

It's going to be a very interesting situation next Sunday as Grimsby Town Football Club are in the playoff final against Solihull Moors, with the final being played at West ham's ground at Stratford.

With very little TransPennine Express services running on a Sunday it's going to be an interesting journey if fans want to go by train from Cleethorpes / Grimsby Town.

There are still some EMR services to Lincoln and Newark, although they are so slow that journey planners generally still just suggest the TPE services, changing at Doncaster.

 

[VauxhallNova]

trying to make an under resourced service work?

Hi. What do you mean by under-resourced, we'd been told the current issues are to do with Covid and staff training?

 

[Atishyou]

One of the reasons is that different roles are treated differently. Recently TPE told RMT that there was no option to increase the 15% that guards receive for overtime.

Two weeks later they offer an increase of 15% to ASLEF (who turned it down)…

No they didn't. They offered 1.15%. The RMT were in too much of a rush to get that 15% figure out, they forgot to actually check it.

 

[kylemore]

As I mentioned in a similar thread regarding Scotrail which has now been shut down we are returning to a 1970s style wage spiral due to inflationary pressure.

Those sectors where the unions still have power will use that power to press ever increasing claims. We are in a situation now where a 10% increase is essentially a pay freeze.

Rail employers who think they can get away with increases of 2% or even 4% are in for a rude awakening - if not in this pay round certainly in the next.

I can't blame the rail unions for exploiting their power but it means we are in the "devil take the hindmost" situation of the 1970s.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Those sectors where the unions still have power will use that power to press ever increasing claims. We are in a situation now where a 10% increase is essentially a pay freeze. Rail employers who think they can get away with increases of 2% or even 4% are in for a rude awakening - if not in this pay round certainly in the next.

I can't blame the rail unions for exploiting their power but it means we are in the "devil take the hindmost" situation of the 1970s.

All of us of greater age indeed do remember the 1970s when the unions held sway and a Labour Party in power and towards the end of that decade, "the Winter of Discontent" which was said to be the main reason why the Conservative Party won the General Election and that led to "The Thatcher Years".

 

[Moss32]

It's going to be a very interesting situation next Sunday as Grimsby Town Football Club are in the playoff final against Solihull Moors, with the final being played at West ham's ground at Stratford.

With very little TransPennine Express services running on a Sunday it's going to be an interesting journey if fans want to go by train from Cleethorpes / Grimsby Town.

Is there a way to find out which trains are running on Sunday?

 

[Watershed]

Is there a way to find out which trains are running on Sunday?

The timetable has now settled on the same each week, excepting any engineering works (where there may in fact be a more frequent rail replacement bus service than the normal strike timetable).

You can see yesterday's timetable here.

 

[Starmill]

No they didn't. They offered 1.15%. The RMT were in too much of a rush to get that 15% figure out, they forgot to actually check it.

A 1.15% increase for overtime? Seems like an extraordinarily specifc figure which wouldn't "move the dial" at all. The lowest I've ever seen in a policy is a supermarket which paid +10% for nights. Or is it a salary increase of 1.15? Or do you mean they offerer 1.15 points more than a 15% premium, i.e. +16.15%?

 

[Moss32]

The timetable has now settled on the same each week, excepting any engineering works (where there may in fact be a more frequent rail replacement bus service than the normal strike timetable).

You can see yesterday's timetable here.

I am supposed to be travelling, Manchester to Leeds.

 

[Watershed]

I am supposed to be travelling, Manchester to Leeds.

In that case this is the timetable you want. There are also Northern services via Hebden Bridge which you can take - although even with the strike timetable's additional calls, the TPE services are generally faster.

 

[D6130]

There are also Northern services via Hebden Bridge which you can take - although even with the strike timetable's additional calls, the TPE services are generally faster.

In my experience, on recent TPE strike Sundays the hourly Manchester Victoria-Leeds and vice-versa trains via the Calder Valley have been full-and-standing for most of the day, depite having been strengthened to five or six cars. Even without the TPE strikes, an hourly Sunday service on this line is woefully insufficient for the traffic requirements. Should be half-hourly at the very least.

 

[Atishyou]

A 1.15% increase for overtime? Seems like an extraordinarily specifc figure which wouldn't "move the dial" at all. The lowest I've ever seen in a policy is a supermarket which paid +10% for nights. Or is it a salary increase of 1.15? Or do you mean they offerer 1.15 points more than a 15% premium, i.e. +16.15%?

Nope, it was standard rate, followed by another offer of time and 15, so 1.15,l and the RMT said drivers were offered "15%" but let's not let facts get in the way of a good rant ey.

 

[Fokx]

Nope, it was standard rate, followed by another offer of time and 15, so 1.15,l and the RMT said drivers were offered "15%" but let's not let facts get in the way of a good rant ey.

Time and 15% is equal to +15% for time worked is it not?

It’s also therefore a proposed increase for RD/overtime work which the company told RMT was not possible.

 

[Atishyou]

Time and 15% is equal to +15% for time worked is it not?

It’s also therefore a proposed increase for RD/overtime work which the company told RMT was not possible.

.15 and 15 are completely different and it's sole purpose being written like that is to stir up trouble between the grades and you've already got a chip on your shoulder about drivers, so it's great bait for people like you.

I'm sure you'd be annoyed if you thought you were getting a 15% payrise, only to then find it was .15% wouldn't you?

It's actually a decrease as to what was previously made available, but you already know that don't you?

 

[Fokx]

You’ve already got a chip on your shoulder about drivers, so it's great bait for people like you.

I haven’t but hey ho

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder if those connected with tourist industry in York, being a major tourist attraction, would somewhat unhappy about the dispute affecting day trippers as we are fast approaching the accepted period when tourists arrive in droves by train.

 

[Bald Rick]

I wonder if those connected with tourist industry in York, being a major tourist attraction, would somewhat unhappy about the dispute affecting day trippers as we are fast approaching the accepted period when tourists arrive in droves by train.

that period started 3 months ago!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Equally TPE could hand the franchise back, and it becomes another OLR run TOC if they don't like the 'imposed' solution.

As far as I can see, the OLR TOCs are as much in dispute with the unions as TPE.
At Scotrail (government run) the situation appears to be even worse.
Before long, GBR will be the bogeymen, trying to impose rationality on the railway, while under government control.

 

[43066]

Before long, GBR will be the bogeymen, trying to impose rationality on the railway, while under government control.

No, it will be trying to impose government policy on the railway, which isn’t necessarily the same thing as rationality…

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

that period started 3 months ago!

But weather-wise. as soon as June starts, the weather is usually better (and warmer).

As far as I can see, the OLR TOCs are as much in dispute with the unions as TPE.
At Scotrail (government run) the situation appears to be even worse.
Before long, GBR will be the bogeymen, trying to impose rationality on the railway, while under government control.

Is that not what the RMT wanted, rather than "foreign-owned" private company TOC?

 

[320320]

.15 and 15 are completely different and it's sole purpose being written like that is to stir up trouble between the grades and you've already got a chip on your shoulder about drivers, so it's great bait for people like you.

I'm sure you'd be annoyed if you thought you were getting a 15% payrise, only to then find it was .15% wouldn't you?

It's actually a decrease as to what was previously made available, but you already know that don't you?

So it’s a 15% increase on the overtime rate then. .15 of £1 and 15% of £1 are the same thing.

 

[mike57]

As far as I can see, the OLR TOCs are as much in dispute with the unions as TPE.
At Scotrail (government run) the situation appears to be even worse.
Before long, GBR will be the bogeymen, trying to impose rationality on the railway, while under government control.

Have to agree that the situation doesn't look healthy. Scotrail situation looks even worse, I was looking yesterday at a work related trip up the far-north line, and it is now just two trains per day from Inverness to Thurso. From York there is one morning train with two changes to Inverness, one at Edinburgh, and then Stirling, with 12 and 8 minutes, which doesnt feel reliable, then nearly 30 mins at Inverness but if you miss the 14:00 due to delays further back in the journey then its I assume a taxi at their expense. The X99 bus doesnt help either as it leaves Inverness at 14:15 as well.

I think the government will hang back on implimenting 'GBR' until the current round of troubles are resolved.

 

[yorksrob]

I notice that there's a for hour gap in the Leeds - Middleborough service this Friday between 7:14 and 11:14.

Is this due to the industrial action or just down to general rubbishness ?

 

[greyman42]

that period started 3 months ago!

Yes it did! Visitors to York don't seem to have been put of at all and probably just use other operators. The only visitors that might have problems would be the ones coming in from Middlesbrough.

 

[Bald Rick]

But weather-wise. as soon as June starts, the weather is usually better (and warmer).

it is, but the tourist season in York starts at February half term and runs right through to the end of October.

 

[Watershed]

I notice that there's a for hour gap in the Leeds - Middleborough service this Friday between 7:14 and 11:14.

Is this due to the industrial action or just down to general rubbishness ?

There's a 09:14 from what I can see?

 

[Starmill]

it is, but the tourist season in York starts at February half term and runs right through to the end of October.

It's also pretty popular for Christmas Shopping. It's probably one of those places where the idea of the tourist "season" has basically become "there will be lots of tourists every weekend except for January".

 

[yorksrob]

There's a 09:14 from what I can see?

So there is !

Don't know what I must have typed in to come up with the for hour gap.

Sadly not much use for me as it misses the connection to Whitby.

 

[kylemore]

All of us of greater age indeed do remember the 1970s when the unions held sway and a Labour Party in power and towards the end of that decade, "the Winter of Discontent" which was said to be the main reason why the Conservative Party won the General Election and that led to "The Thatcher Years".

Yes if you can remember huddling round a candle with no Telly then you are of a certain age. Sorry - off topic.

 

[Fokx]

So it’s a 15% increase on the overtime rate then. .15 of £1 and 15% of £1 are the same thing.

Glad it’s not just me that seems to be confused about this

I wonder if those connected with tourist industry in York, being a major tourist attraction, would somewhat unhappy about the dispute affecting day trippers as we are fast approaching the accepted period when tourists arrive in droves by train.

I can’t honestly imagine the damage being too severe as ticket acceptance is in place with most operators and a limited TPE still runs. Those determined to travel to/from York will still do so albeit on a slightly delayed journey

The exception to this of course being the Scarborough line