Do you think that the UK switching to electric vehicles is realistic?

[Ediswan]

Heated windscreens are just great on the days when you need them. I was surprised how few electric cars had them the last time I was browsing.

My guess is that EVs solve the problem with preconditioning. The windscreen is already clear before you approach the car.

It's because Ford owns the sole patent so only Fords & ex Ford owned manufacturers are 'allowed' to use them. Very sad such a safety feature is controlled by one manufacturer!

Patent expired (2011 ?). Other manufacturers now offer heated windscreens:
https://myurbanjungle.com/explore/blog/what-cars-have-heated-windscreens/

• Ford Motor Company
• Land/Range Rover
• Skoda
• Mini
• Nissan
• SEAT
• Jaguar
• Volkswagen
• Vauxhall
• Aston Martin

 

[pdq]

My guess is that EVs solve the problem with preconditioning. The windscreen is already clear before you approach the car.

Also, unlike an ICE vehicle, an EV will produce heat immediately so the windscreen will defrost quickly just from hot air.

 

[reddragon]

I did some good London driving today on busy roads.

Why do Audi / BMW / Jaguar / SUV / sports car drivers still think they have a hope in hell in beating me away from the lights in my EV?

 

[Bald Rick]

If you need to deice a car using the battery, you are going to lose quite a bit of range.

others have got there before me with the maths to dispel this.

all I’ll add is that if you can imagine running a 1kw fan heater in your car on a cold day, you can be sure the whole interior would be toasty within about 5-10 minutes. Even if it took 20 minutes, that is going to be about a mile of range lost.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Going back to the original question of what's realistic - surely the only "realistic" approach (ie facing up to reality) is rapidly winding down the use of private cars of any sort.

 

[ainsworth74]

VW have their own system.
Wouldn't call it a safety feature, just convenience. Using an ice scraper isn't exactly hard

I don't think I've ever used it to clear ice off the windscreen of my Fiesta. Ensure that the windscreen demists on a cold morning within seconds however I use it all the time for during winter. It clears it far faster than blowers alone.

 

[43301]

Going back to the original question of what's realistic - surely the only "realistic" approach (ie facing up to reality) is rapidly winding down the use of private cars of any sort.

That would require ambitious and definite plans to improve public transport, of which there is no sign - the government clearly resents funding the railways and don't actually know what they want to do with them, and most buses (especially outside of cities) are deregulated and disjointed or non-existent - and if they do exist rarely run beyond early evening. There is generally little or no co-ordination between different modes of transport.

The railways have become such a hassle to use, and in some places so unreliable, that a number of long-term rail users (I am one) have given up and bought a car.

 

[reddragon]

My elderly mother collapsed in the heat today. I turned up in my EV, sat her in it with the aircon for a couple of hours, re-hydrated her & she is fine.

1 ambulance cancelled.

Cost to me 1% of battery charged for free on solar PV

 

[Flying Snail]

My elderly mother collapsed in the heat today. I turned up in my EV, sat her in it with the aircon for a couple of hours, re-hydrated her & she is fine.

1 ambulance cancelled.

Cost to me 1% of battery charged for free on solar PV

If she had an air-to-air heat pump in her house she could have had the thermostat set to her preferred temp and been in a nice cool house so as not to have a heat related crisis in the first place.

 

[reddragon]

If she had an air-to-air heat pump in her house she could have had the thermostat set to her preferred temp and been in a nice cool house so as not to have a heat related crisis in the first place.

If only I could enable that I would, so the car has to do. This is why the wide value of an EV is growing, especially now mains sockets are getting fitted and V2G is coming too.

 

[paul1609]

My elderly mother collapsed in the heat today. I turned up in my EV, sat her in it with the aircon for a couple of hours, re-hydrated her & she is fine.

1 ambulance cancelled.

Cost to me 1% of battery charged for free on solar PV

If you are wasting all your heavily subsidised solar energy on an EV its probably why we've had to flash up or remaining coal and open circuit gas power stations this afternoon to meet the demand for air con.

 

[ainsworth74]

Going back to the original question of what's realistic - surely the only "realistic" approach (ie facing up to reality) is rapidly winding down the use of private cars of any sort.

I can't say that that's realistic. I do think we should be investing in more public transport and cycle infrastructure (proper cycle infrastructure such as joined up cycleways that are separated from road vehicle running lanes). We should encouraging, via high quality provision, people out of their cars onto mass transit and onto bikes. But there will always be a need for some private transit which itself should be electrified as a priority to reduce emissions. And yes, I know, even electric vehicles produce particulates from their tyres and brakes but the harm of them is considerably less than that from the exhaust pipe of a petrol or diesel vehicle.

 

[reddragon]

If you are wasting all your heavily subsidised solar energy on an EV its probably why we've had to flash up or remaining coal and open circuit gas power stations this afternoon to meet the demand for air con.

Better than burning oil, better than getting an over stretched ambulance service response and it's only getting a tiny income from import, barely a 'subsidy'

We are burning coal & gas because tory muppets blocked on shore wind, tidal and home insulation schemes and because selfish people think driving SUVs, jetting around the world & consuming is a good idea. EVs are part of the solution but e-bikes are a better solution.

 

[BingMan]

I did some good London driving today on busy roads.

Why do Audi / BMW / Jaguar / SUV / sports car drivers still think they have a hope in hell in beating me away from the lights in my EV?

Why do you want to turn every traffic light into drag race

 

[43301]

We are burning coal & gas because tory muppets blocked on shore wind, tidal and home insulation schemes and because selfish people think driving SUVs, jetting around the world & consuming is a good idea. EVs are part of the solution but e-bikes are a better solution.

Some of that should have gone ahead (especially insulation, and curbs on large vehicles and use of jets), but some of the other is not the zero-sum game which its proponents claim. In particular, onshore wind kills vast numbers of birds and insects, and tidal barrage systems do the same to marine life.

 

[paul1609]

Some of that should have gone ahead (especially insulation, and curbs on large vehicles and use of jets), but some of the other is not the zero-sum game which its proponents claim. In particular, onshore wind kills vast numbers of birds and insects, and tidal barrage systems do the same to marine life.

Not to mention that the engineering for some of the tidal schemes, Pentland Firth comes to mind doesn't exist yet.

 

[reddragon]

Some of that should have gone ahead (especially insulation, and curbs on large vehicles and use of jets), but some of the other is not the zero-sum game which its proponents claim. In particular, onshore wind kills vast numbers of birds and insects, and tidal barrage systems do the same to marine life.

Wind turbines do not even feature in the top list of causes of bird deaths.

Cats rule at 98%, followed by habitat loss, modern farming & chemicals, glass buildings, pollution of which oil refineries dominate, vehicles, climate change and many more man made ones but not wind turbines. 1 ferral cat kills more birds than all wind turbines in the UK.

Insects are down to habitat loss, modern farming & chemicals etc.

I think we need to ban cats

Not to mention that the engineering for some of the tidal schemes, Pentland Firth comes to mind doesn't exist yet.

On the grand scale of things, over fishing, plastic pollution, oil pollution and climate change dwarf any consequences attributed to tidal energy production. Tidal is designed.

maybe we should ban propellers on ships then?

 

[paul1609]

Wind turbines do not even feature in the top list of causes of bird deaths.

Cats rule at 98%, followed by habitat loss, modern farming & chemicals, glass buildings, pollution of which oil refineries dominate, vehicles, climate change and many more man made ones but not wind turbines. 1 ferral cat kills more birds than all wind turbines in the UK.

Insects are down to habitat loss, modern farming & chemicals etc.

I think we need to ban cats


On the grand scale of things, over fishing, plastic pollution, oil pollution and climate change dwarf any consequences attributed to tidal energy production. Tidal is designed.

maybe we should ban propellers on ship then?

It's not the turbines that are the issue it's the alternators that are attached to them and their very large electromagnetic signature but my point was that there are no commercially available underwater generators suitable for working in hostile conditions of the Pentland firth and even if there was there's no grid capacity anywhere north of the central belt capable of accepting the electricity generated. That's why it's all gone very quiet rather than the political persuasion of the UK government

 

[reddragon]

It's not the turbines that are the issue it's the alternators that are attached to them and their very large electromagnetic signature but my point was that there are no commercially available underwater generators suitable for working in hostile conditions of the Pentland firth and even if there was there's no grid capacity anywhere north of the central belt capable of accepting the electricity generated. That's why it's all gone very quiet rather than the political persuasion of the UK government

Orkney is a net exporter of 100% renewable energy but yes to exploit the huge currents there would need a substantial power grid akin to the one opened from Norway.

 

[The Ham]

Going back to the original question of what's realistic - surely the only "realistic" approach (ie facing up to reality) is rapidly winding down the use of private cars of any sort.

Ultimately it would be easier if there was a reduced reliance on cars for more trips than there's currently is. For instance something like 52% of all trips are under 3 miles. Now not all will be possible by other modes, however quite a few could be and aren't.

The problem with car ownership is that once you own a car (and EV's are worse) is that the extra cost of the fuel isn't very much, so it's better value to do more miles than only what you have to.

Also there's a perception that cars are much faster; for a journey of about a mile walking is slower but by the time you've got going and then parked at the other end (unless literally door to door and dedicated spaces) that adds quite a bit to your journey so the saving isn't always as big as the actual driving time shows. Cycling/Scooting can be very close, especially scooting if you don't need to lock it up (such as taking it on a train or into an office).

Some of that should have gone ahead (especially insulation, and curbs on large vehicles and use of jets), but some of the other is not the zero-sum game which its proponents claim. In particular, onshore wind kills vast numbers of birds and insects, and tidal barrage systems do the same to marine life.

Tidal could be implemented in some existing tidal basins without changing the impact on marine life. Yes there may not be many, but they should have been done already.

 

[43301]

Wind turbines do not even feature in the top list of causes of bird deaths.

Cats rule at 98%, followed by habitat loss, modern farming & chemicals, glass buildings, pollution of which oil refineries dominate, vehicles, climate change and many more man made ones but not wind turbines. 1 ferral cat kills more birds than all wind turbines in the UK.

Insects are down to habitat loss, modern farming & chemicals etc.

I think we need to ban cats


On the grand scale of things, over fishing, plastic pollution, oil pollution and climate change dwarf any consequences attributed to tidal energy production. Tidal is designed.

maybe we should ban propellers on ships then?

That's because there are relatively small amounts of onshore wind at the moment in this country - look at the stats specifically for areas with lots of turbines, if they are available.

Likewise with ships - their propellers are insignificant compated to something like a tidal barrage across a large estuary.

Wouldn't object to banning cats, mind! Murderous creatures in a cute and fluffy package.

 

[paul1609]

Orkney is a net exporter of 100% renewable energy but yes to exploit the huge currents there would need a substantial power grid akin to the one opened from Norway.

Orkney actually has an excess of wind power that can't be exported to the mainland. Orkney is only connected to the mainland by 2 x 10 Mw cables. Reinforcing this has been in the planning stage for many years and the report is now due to be finished at the end of the year. Further capacity for a Pentland Firth Tidal scheme would be in the region of 15+years away but realistically somebody would need to commission a manufacturer to build and test the turbines probably a 25 year task from go ahead. So that's really my case that the engineering doesn't currently exist.

 

[Bald Rick]

Orkney actually has an excess of wind power that can't be exported to the mainland. Orkney is only connected to the mainland by 2 x 10 Mw cables. Reinforcing this has been in the planning stage for many years and the report is now due to be finished at the end of the year. Further capacity for a Pentland Firth Tidal scheme would be in the region of 15+years away but realistically somebody would need to commission a manufacturer to build and test the turbines probably a 25 year task from go ahead. So that's really my case that the engineering doesn't currently exist.

we’ll be more likely getting our power from Morocco before anything in the Pentland Firth.

Morocco-UK Power Project - Xlinks

xlinks.co

The Xlinks Morocco-UK Power Project will be a new electricity generation facility entirely powered by solar and wind energy combined with a battery storage facility. Located in Morocco’s renewable energy rich region of Guelmim Oued Noun, it will cover an approximate area of 1,500km2 and will be connected exclusively to Great Britain via 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cables.

This “first of a kind” project will generate 10.5GW of zero carbon electricity from the sun and wind to deliver 3.6GW of reliable energy for an average of 20+ hours a day. This is enough to provide low-cost, clean power to over 7 million British homes by 2030. Once complete, the project will be capable of supplying 8 percent of Great Britain’s electricity needs.

 

[AM9]

Some of that should have gone ahead (especially insulation, and curbs on large vehicles and use of jets), but some of the other is not the zero-sum game which its proponents claim. In particular, onshore wind kills vast numbers of birds and insects, and tidal barrage systems do the same to marine life.

Onshore wind kills some birds and insects but only a fraction of the total. Burning hydrocarbons for whatever use is causing climate change that kills far more birds animals (including humans) and fishes. Tidal schemes and marine wind turbines likewise aren't without casualties. These arguments are often proffered as a reason for doing nothing except to continue on the climate collision course that were are currently locked on.

 

[43301]

Onshore wind kills some birds and insects but only a fraction of the total. Burning hydrocarbons for whatever use is causing climate change that kills far more birds animals (including humans) and fishes. Tidal schemes and marine wind turbines likewise aren't without casualties. These arguments are often proffered as a reason for doing nothing except to continue on the climate collision course that were are currently locked on.

The situation is normally framed around how does western society continue with its current level of energy usage. Reductions are, apart from a few things amenable to virtue-signalling, frequently ignored.

Transport is a good example - EV cars may be less polluting, but they are still polluting (and the batteries require lithium - an unpleasant substance to deal with at every stage), and they are completely impractical for many people given the current levels of the technology. Any government actually wanting to reduce usage of private vehicles should be putting a lot of effort into improving public transport to make that a viable alternative. But certainly in this country they aren't - in the past few years they've been doing the opposite: the railways in paticular have gone severely downhill.

 

[The Ham]

The situation is normally framed around how does western society continue with its current level of energy usage. Reductions are, apart from a few things amenable to virtue-signalling, frequently ignored.

Transport is a good example - EV cars may be less polluting, but they are still polluting (and the batteries require lithium - an unpleasant substance to deal with at every stage), and they are completely impractical for many people given the current levels of the technology. Any government actually wanting to reduce usage of private vehicles should be putting a lot of effort into improving public transport to make that a viable alternative. But certainly in this country they aren't - in the past few years they've been doing the opposite: the railways in paticular have gone severely downhill.

With ministers citing 20% falls in rail use on the day (being a Monday which is lower than the weekday average) where rail use has now been reported as being 90% (i.e. just a 10% fall) of what it was, yet there's still noticeable reductions in services.

 

[Bald Rick]

With ministers citing 20% falls in rail use on the day (being a Monday which is lower than the weekday average) where rail use has now been reported as being 90% (i.e. just a 10% fall) of what it was, yet there's still noticeable reductions in services.

for the avoidance of doubt, rail usage is only at 90% (or above) at weekends. In the week it is c80%. Yesterday was well under 80%.

 

[paul1609]

we’ll be more likely getting our power from Morocco before anything in the Pentland Firth.

Morocco-UK Power Project - Xlinks

xlinks.co

Engineering wise I don't doubt it, energy securitywise I'm not so sure.

 

[Bald Rick]

Engineering wise I don't doubt it, energy securitywise I'm not so sure.

it make the ‘Great Extension Lead’ in Manchester look like a metre of flex.

 

[Foxhunter]

it make the ‘Great Extension Lead’ in Manchester look like a metre of flex.

Very similar proposed for Australia to Singapore Australia-Asia Power Link

I guess if all the primary energy is coming from solar I shouldn't be too concerned about my suspicion that the battery charge - Low to High voltage - transmission losses - High to Low voltage cycle is going to be pretty lossy.

But tbh I haven't grasped why, with the competitive European power market, the UK is the target landing point of the Morocco scheme and not any of the 3 other European countries it passes along the way. (Maybe go the whole hog and route via the Channel Islands for their energy security ).